"Evidence" for God - Continued from another thread

[SkepticThinker]

SkepticThinker there are Miracles! Prove to me there are not Miracles!

Why should you care for your children they are going to die anyway; you should reject religion because it brings you comfort. Why should comfort be the reason to reject religion?
SkepticThinker How ridiculous would it be to reject every idea that brings us comfort—because it brings comfort?
Reject God "There is NO God" now you cannot sin!: Now you do not need to be good! Your excuse is: "What does it matter to me?!"

You claim there are miracles. You have the burden of proof to demonstrate that claim is correct. It's not on me to prove that there are no miracles. That is not even my position.
So far, you haven't even been able to define what a miracle is. So you're not off to a great start here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

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shunyadragon good to meet you..
When someone makes a statement.. They are expressing their belief! Saying "There is NO god" is a belief!
They have to prove or justify there belief!

"There are NO Unicorns" is a belief! "The sun will rise tomorrow" is also belief, some beliefs are easier to prove then others! Question: Have you see a Unicorn? Have you seen God?
shunyadragon Question... “Does God exist?”

Showing God does not exist does not mean atheism is true.
If you want to demonstrate that atheism is true, you an atheist would have to provide evidence that there is no God just as a defense attorney would have to provide further evidence to show his client is innocent as opposed to being just “not guilty.”

Have you ever heard of “presumed innocent until proven guilty.” You the atheist also has a belief (namely, “God does not exist” or “There are no gods”), and you also should have a reason for his belief. The atheist should share the burden of proof to the same extent as the theist.

Do you know what a strawman argument is? It is when a person makes an argument that is not based upon what one's opponent says. You started out here with a strawman argument. Very very few atheists say "there is no God". Most will tell you that they lack a belief in God. And they, unlike you, can justify their lack of a belief. They lack a belief due to there being insufficient evidence to believe in a God. Once again, just to make sure that you do not repeat your error that is not saying "there is no God".

You also go the "innocent until proven guilty wrong". The question you should have applied it to is:

Is the universe guilty of having a God. Since there is no evidence for a God, and your weak donkeyed miracles claims are not evidence, then we would have to say that the universe is not guilty of having a God. That does not necessarily mean that a God does not exist, but it does mean that a belief in one is irrational.

 

[Dogknox20]

Sorry but the burden of proof is upon you when it comes to the existence of miracles the burden of proof is upon you.

I have a magical invisible blue dragon in my garage, Do I need to add a few exclamation points? Okay !!!!!

So now you need to prove that I do not have a magical invisible blue dragon in my garage.

Subduction Zone You need to prove there is no god!
You "Believe" there is NO god. You cannot prove there is not a god! Belief is NOT Fact!

No burden of proof is needed... Fact: "There are Miracles"! You cannot prove there are NOT miracles!
You Believe.. All you got is "Belief" it's your belief there are no miracles!

Fact.. There was a Man 2000 years ago that taught he was God..... You cannot prove Jesus was NOT God! Jesus is the "Man/God"!
You Believe Jesus is not God! Belief is NOT a fact! All you got is "Belief" it's your belief Jesus is NOT God!
You cannot prove the scriptures are not true! You Believe they are not true!
You believe you will not have eternal life, that dying you become fertilizer nothing to show for your life! Belief is not a fact!
You believe your children have no life after this earth. Belief is not a fact!
You believe Satan is a myth! Belief is not a fact!

Fact: Man has always Believed in a god or gods!

Fact: God is Spirit! You cannot prove there are NO Ghosts! Ghosts are Spirit!

Fact; Jesus built his Church on Rock! 2000 years and what Jesus built still stands!

There are Just the three "Faith Hope and love" You have NO Hope, No Faith and No Love!

"God is Love!"

 

[SkepticThinker]

Subduction Zone You need to prove there is no god!
You "Believe" there is NO god. You cannot prove there is not a god! Belief is NOT Fact!

No burden of proof is needed... Fact: "There are Miracles"! You cannot prove there are NOT miracles!
You Believe.. All you got is "Belief" it's your belief there are no miracles!

Fact.. There was a Man 2000 years ago that taught he was God..... You cannot prove Jesus was NOT God! Jesus is the "Man/God"!
You Believe Jesus is not God! Belief is NOT a fact! All you got is "Belief" it's your belief Jesus is NOT God!
You cannot prove the scriptures are not true! You Believe they are not true!
You believe you will not have eternal life, that dying you become fertilizer nothing to show for your life! Belief is not a fact!
You believe your children have no life after this earth. Belief is not a fact!
You believe Satan is a myth! Belief is not a fact!

Fact: Man has always Believed in a god or gods!

Fact: God is Spirit! You cannot prove there are NO Ghosts! Ghosts are Spirit!

Fact; Jesus built his Church on Rock! 2000 years and what Jesus built still stands!

There are Just the three "Faith Hope and love" You have NO Hope, No Faith and No Love!

"God is Love!"

You are not responding to a single thing either of us wrote and instead are just repeating yourself over and over again.

Is that how you try to convince yourself that it's true?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Subduction Zone You need to prove there is no god!
You "Believe" there is NO god. You cannot prove there is not a god! Belief is NOT Fact!

No burden of proof is needed... Fact: "There are Miracles"! You cannot prove there are NOT miracles!
You Believe.. All you got is "Belief" it's your belief there are no miracles!

Fact.. There was a Man 2000 years ago that taught he was God..... You cannot prove Jesus was NOT God! Jesus is the "Man/God"!
You Believe Jesus is not God! Belief is NOT a fact! All you got is "Belief" it's your belief Jesus is NOT God!
You cannot prove the scriptures are not true! You Believe they are not true!
You believe you will not have eternal life, that dying you become fertilizer nothing to show for your life! Belief is not a fact!
You believe your children have no life after this earth. Belief is not a fact!
You believe Satan is a myth! Belief is not a fact!

Fact: Man has always Believed in a god or gods!

Fact: God is Spirit! You cannot prove there are NO Ghosts! Ghosts are Spirit!

Fact; Jesus built his Church on Rock! 2000 years and what Jesus built still stands!

There are Just the three "Faith Hope and love" You have NO Hope, No Faith and No Love!

"God is Love!"

No, I do not . I am not claiming "there is no God". I am saying since you cannot support your claim I do not believe you.

The burden of proof is upon you.

If I said "There is no God" then the burden of proof would be upon me.

And you also need to prove that man always believed in Gods, You do not have any evidence of that. If you do not haver evidence that is not a fact.

\]And that "God is spirit" is not a fact. Once again you need reliable evidence for that.

You are arguing like an eight year old. Learn some basics of logic and evidence.

 

[gnostic]

Subduction Zone You need to prove there is no god!
You "Believe" there is NO god. You cannot prove there is not a god! Belief is NOT Fact!

No burden of proof is needed... Fact: "There are Miracles"! You cannot prove there are NOT miracles!
You Believe.. All you got is "Belief" it's your belief there are no miracles!

Fact.. There was a Man 2000 years ago that taught he was God..... You cannot prove Jesus was NOT God! Jesus is the "Man/God"!
You Believe Jesus is not God! Belief is NOT a fact! All you got is "Belief" it's your belief Jesus is NOT God!
You cannot prove the scriptures are not true! You Believe they are not true!
You believe you will not have eternal life, that dying you become fertilizer nothing to show for your life! Belief is not a fact!
You believe your children have no life after this earth. Belief is not a fact!
You believe Satan is a myth! Belief is not a fact!

Fact: Man has always Believed in a god or gods!

Fact: God is Spirit! You cannot prove there are NO Ghosts! Ghosts are Spirit!

Fact; Jesus built his Church on Rock! 2000 years and what Jesus built still stands!

There are Just the three "Faith Hope and love" You have NO Hope, No Faith and No Love!

"God is Love!"

That’s not how logic works.

And that certainly not how fact works.

Facts require evidence.

You are only making claims of having facts, but you have no evidence to support your claims...so these claims are not facts at all. Your claims about god, miracles and spirits are nothing than claims that are personal opinions or personal beliefs.

Since you are the one making claim that miracles “are facts” and that spirits “are facts”, then as the “claimant”, the burden of proof do fall on your shoulders, not upon others.

That as a claimant, you have tried to shifting the burdens upon others to prove you wrong, is the wrong way to deal with disagreements with others.

 

[Dogknox20]

.

 

[Dogknox20]

That’s not how logic works.

And that certainly not how fact works.

Facts require evidence.

You are only making claims of having facts, but you have no evidence to support your claims...so these claims are not facts at all. Your claims about god, miracles and spirits are nothing than claims that are personal opinions or personal beliefs.

Since you are the one making claim that miracles “are facts” and that spirits “are facts”, then as the “claimant”, the burden of proof do fall on your shoulders, not upon others.

That as a claimant, you have tried to shifting the burdens upon others to prove you wrong, is the wrong way to deal with disagreements with others.

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gnostic You believe there is a God!

Thus your belief is NOT a fact! You cannot be sure there is not a god! Facts require evidence!

There is evidence for a god! .NDE people see God they see dead relatives! I don't care about oxygen to the brain "Theory!" The "Fact" is they see

 

[Subduction Zone]

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gnostic You believe there is a God!

Thus your belief is NOT a fact! You cannot be sure there is not a god! Facts require evidence!

There is evidence for a god! .NDE people see God they see dead relatives! I don't care about oxygen to the brain "Theory!" The "Fact" is they see

No, the "fact" is that they thought that they saw something. It cannot be confirmed if they saw anything.

 

[gnostic]

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gnostic You believe there is a God!

Thus your belief is NOT a fact! You cannot be sure there is not a god! Facts require evidence!

There is evidence for a god! .NDE people see God they see dead relatives! I don't care about oxygen to the brain "Theory!" The "Fact" is they see

Seeing dead relatives is “seeing dead relatives”.

People are not seeing god in their NDE dreams, they are only seeing dead relatives; you are only jumping to conclusion that it is evidence for god, when they don’t actually see god.

dead relatives don’t equal to god, Dogknox20

A single evidence don’t equate anything to be fact; fact require verification, and verification can only occur with multiple evidence that collaborate with the first evidence.

All that you can verify is that people still dream when they are in NDE state, and in dreams they are merely illusions.

I’d dream of my late parents, every now and then, but I would never jump to conclusions that my dad is god or my mum is god. I am only dreaming of my mom or my dad, or both.

In NDE dreams, people are only seeing relatives, don’t mean they are seeing god in their NDE dreams.

There are no facts in what people dream of.

And btw, Dogknox20. It isn’t the oxygen itself in one’s brain, that cause one to dream, it is the oxygen plus the neutron that provide chemical impulses for dreams.

It is known fact that when your brain are oxygen deprived, the carbon dioxide in the brain will cause you to see something that’s not there, an illusion or a delusion even when you are still awake and conscious.

In NDE dream it would be the same thing.

I don’t think you understand the brain as well as you think, because you don’t understand brain chemicals, and how brain react to carbon dioxide.

 

[Dogknox20]

Seeing dead relatives is “seeing dead relatives”.

People are not seeing god in their NDE dreams, they are only seeing dead relatives; you are only jumping to conclusion that it is evidence for god, when they don’t actually see god.

dead relatives don’t equal to god, Dogknox20

A single evidence don’t equate anything to be fact; fact require verification, and verification can only occur with multiple evidence that collaborate with the first evidence.

All that you can verify is that people still dream when they are in NDE state, and in dreams they are merely illusions.

I’d dream of my late parents, every now and then, but I would never jump to conclusions that my dad is god or my mum is god. I am only dreaming of my mom or my dad, or both.

In NDE dreams, people are only seeing relatives, don’t mean they are seeing god in their NDE dreams.

There are no facts in what people dream of.

And btw, Dogknox20. It isn’t the oxygen itself in one’s brain, that cause one to dream, it is the oxygen plus the neutron that provide chemical impulses for dreams.

It is known fact that when your brain are oxygen deprived, the carbon dioxide in the brain will cause you to see something that’s not there, an illusion or a delusion even when you are still awake and conscious.

In NDE dream it would be the same thing.

I don’t think you understand the brain as well as you think, because you don’t understand brain chemicals, and how brain react to carbon dioxide.

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gnostic “seeing dead relatives”. means there is another place and another world a spirit type world! God is Spirit!
You cannot see Spirits but Spirits exist!

Dead relatives don’t equal to god seeing dead relatives means they are NOT dead only changed in form from flesh to spirit! God is Spirit!

You say Dreams are illusions. I reply;. but how is it possible to meet relatives you did not know you had in a NDE!??? You have NO proof they are Illusions!

 

[Subduction Zone]

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gnostic “seeing dead relatives”. means there is another place and another world a spirit type world! God is Spirit!
You cannot see Spirits but Spirits exist!

Dead relatives don’t equal to god seeing dead relatives means they are NOT dead only changed in form from flesh to spirit! God is Spirit!

You say Dreams are illusions. I reply;. but how is it possible to meet relatives you did not know you had in a NDE!??? You have NO proof they are Illusions!

Once again, you have the burden of proof backwards. If I said that I knew that Allah was God and knew that your beliefs were wrong you would be absolutely right to challenge me to prove it. I would not get away with saying "But I know it". When people make a claim about NDE's the burden of proof is upon them.

And I assume that you are aware of the work in the sciences that indicate this is just a very real feeling hallucination caused by the shutting down of the brain. They do have evidence for their claims. Why wouldn't you accept a well supported naturalistic explanation over a magical one?

 

[gnostic]

gnostic “seeing dead relatives”. means there is another place and another world a spirit type world! God is Spirit!
You cannot see Spirits but Spirits exist!

Or it could just be a dream.

I have many vivid dreams since they (parents) passed away.

Saying that it is the spirit world, or proclaiming “god” is not only far fetched, you are making assumptions that no one can verify.

If you are claiming god or spirit world then are the one that have to support your claims.

And you have no such evidence other than just making more false and unjustified claims that you have evidence

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

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The evidence is a belief in an after life! Thus NDE!
The evidence is a belief in the Spirit world! You cannot tell me no one has ever seen a Ghost!
The evidence is "Man has always believed in a god" of some sort!
The evidence is Miracles! They have happened to thousands of people in every century! Miracles are attributed to God!

Beliefs aren't evidence.
Beliefs require evidence.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

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ChristineM thus I point her and you to NDE; I point her to MIRACLES; I point her to the FACT man has always believed in gods; I point out to her God is SPIRIT and people have seen Ghosts! (Ghosts are SPIRITS)!!!!!

Again... all of those are beliefs themselves.
Beliefs aren't evidence for the things being believed. They are only evidence of people believing things.

Belief isn't evidence of belief.
Beliefs require evidence to be supported.

When people ask you for evidence of your claims and you then just respond by piling on even more claims, then all you are doing is making your burden of proof even bigger.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

God is spirit..... Can you see air? NO!

Yes, actually. We have various tools that can tell you exactly what the air is composed of. We can also physically detect it in a large variety of ways.

Air demonstrably exists. Your god, or spirits, or ghosts, or souls, or angels or what-have-you does not demonstrably exist.

Subduction Zone You reject LOGIC! This is a FACT: People believe that they have seen ghosts. They BELIEVE IT!

Yes, they believe it.
Their beliefs require evidence. Them believing they saw them is not evidence of them actually seeing them.

People believe in MIRICALS! Miracles happen in every century! Miracles point to God!

People believing that miracles occurred is not evidence they actually did.
Beliefs require evidence.

People have changed their life because of a Near Death Experience!

People have also changed their lives after being dumped by their high school girlfriend.

People believe in God or gods!
People believe in an after life!

And in aliens, and tarot readings, and sceance readings, and fortune telling and astrology and homeopathy and a flat earth and .............................


People believe lots of things. This particular one, that they believe a god exists, is exactly the belief you are being asked to back up with evidence.

Do you think that people believing X is evidence that X is true?
Does that mean you believe in evolution, alien abduction, Shiva, reptilian aliens from planet X, Lord Xenu, Allah, astrology, tarot readings, voodoo, etc etc etc?

Because for each of those I can point you to people that believe it.
And apparently, you think that "people believe X" is evidence for the accuracy of X...

Or does it only work as evidence of X, when X happens to be something you yourself also believe in?

People PRAY!

People also give offerings to pagan gods. Do you believe in pagan gods?

[quote$
NDE have changed many lives for the better.... People believe in an After Life and or a god because of their NDE; if NDE has changed us today then it would have changed Ancient Man (cave man) the people in our past to believe in a god and an after life![/QUOTE]

False.

No person has ever come out of NDE believing in gods they didn't know about before the event.
So if people come out of an NDE with a fantastical religious story, it will alway be about a religion they already knew about. More often then not, that religion will be the one that dominates their culture or sub-culture.

So, someone in some remote corner of the world who has never heard about christianity or the bible, is not going to come out of an NDE suddenly believing in Jesus.

If ancient man came out of an NDE and turned to religion in an effort to cope with his/her experience, he would have turned to the religion he already knows about.

Religion is very much culturally and geographically determined.
Which is the first hint of it being bs in terms of accuracy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

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NO... The burden of proof is upon you when it comes to rejecting God. You cannot prove there is NOT a God! All you have is your unprovable theory!

The burden of proof is upon you when it comes to rejecting the Great Undetectable Dragon. You cannot prove there is NOT a GUD! All you have is your unprovable theory!

You know of no Miracles? Google ... Dancing sun! You cannot prove there are NOT Miracles!

You know of no Aliens? Google ... UFO! You cannot prove there are NOT aliens abducting humans!

You do know; you refuse to admit them as facts! There are Miracles!

You do know; you refuse to admit them as facts! There are Aliens!

God is Spirit!
There are spirits, people see Ghosts!

The ghosts tend to go away when taking anti-psychotic medicine.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

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gnostic You believe there is a God!

Thus your belief is NOT a fact! You cannot be sure there is not a god! Facts require evidence!

There is evidence for a god! .NDE people see God they see dead relatives! I don't care about oxygen to the brain "Theory!" The "Fact" is they see

Exactly. You don't care.
More true words have never been spoken.

You don't care. You only care about upholding your a priori dogmatic religious beliefs.
That much is clear.

 

[SkepticThinker]

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gnostic “seeing dead relatives”. means there is another place and another world a spirit type world! God is Spirit!

No, it doesn't.

You cannot see Spirits but Spirits exist!

Prove it.

Dead relatives don’t equal to god seeing dead relatives means they are NOT dead only changed in form from flesh to spirit! God is Spirit!

Prove it.

You say Dreams are illusions. I reply;. but how is it possible to meet relatives you did not know you had in a NDE!??? You have NO proof they are Illusions!

Prove that anybody is meeting any dead relatives anywhere.

I see a lot of claims but not much (zero, actually) evidence.

 

[Dogknox20]

Once again, you have the burden of proof backwards. If I said that I knew that Allah was God and knew that your beliefs were wrong you would be absolutely right to challenge me to prove it. I would not get away with saying "But I know it". When people make a claim about NDE's the burden of proof is upon them.

And I assume that you are aware of the work in the sciences that indicate this is just a very real feeling hallucination caused by the shutting down of the brain. They do have evidence for their claims. Why wouldn't you accept a well supported naturalistic explanation over a magical one?

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Subduction Zone I am sure you are aware that some people who have had "NDE" have found relatives they did not know were theirs! Proving that the sciences that indicate this is just a very real feeling hallucination.. Is just THEORY!

And... I am sure you "Believe" there is NOT a god of any type! You cannot prove your "Belief" all you go on is Feelings!
Fact.
Man has Always believed in a god or gods!
Fact.
There are Miracles
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Miracle
an unusual and mysterious event that is thought to have been caused by a god because it does not follow the usual laws of nature:
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