Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[Dan From Smithville]

If Hamm were fringe as a Christian I would agree. But as we see there are many Christians who agree with him. I'm not sure what the current poll numbers are but in recent years the percentage of Christians who believed in creationism was about 40%. Since when do believers worry about their religion being rational and consistent with text? There are Christians who interpret Genesis literally even though Jews don't.

This is the dilemma with religions, they aren't to be judged rationally or whether they are consistent, they are judged by their popularity among the masses in whatever form it is presented. Of course critical thinkers can assess and judge for our own understanding, but as we see this is rejected by the religious.

I'm not certain what you claiming would cause you to agree. His popularity doesn't change my assessment of his worthless, arbitrary standards.

I said his idea against free will is inconsistent with scripture. I made no general statements about believers concerns of religion being rational and consistent with scripture. I don't know that I don't agree with you, but you seem to be arguing against things I didn't write.

I don't reject rational conclusions based on evidence. I wouldn't be in science if that were the case. I'm certainly not advocating anyone accept a claim of global flood against and without evidence. I reject the claim of a global flood.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

If Hamm were fringe as a Christian I would agree. But as we see there are many Christians who agree with him. I'm not sure what the current poll numbers are but in recent years the percentage of Christians who believed in creationism was about 40%. Since when do believers worry about their religion being rational and consistent with text? There are Christians who interpret Genesis literally even though Jews don't.

This is the dilemma with religions, they aren't to be judged rationally or whether they are consistent, they are judged by their popularity among the masses in whatever form it is presented. Of course critical thinkers can assess and judge for our own understanding, but as we see this is rejected by the religious.

Personally, I think the dilemma with religions is that a lot of very closed-minded and ignorant people get themselves leadership positions.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't need science for that. Maths tells me that on a perfectly round Earth, there needs only to be enough water to counteract Earth's spin and the tidal influence of Moon and Sun.

The topic is still "Evidence of Noah's Flood" and the fact that there is enough water is in no way evidence. In fact, it isn't even evidence that Earth was ever completely flooded.
And as the Bible got everything else about the flood wrong, the existence of enough water is just a lucky guess.

As I have said, and I will say it again so you understand, the point I am making is not whether or not the Flood of Noah's time happened but whether the earth has enough water within and without to ever cover it. Seems from scientists the answer is yes. In fact, some scientists say that the earth was completely covered before continents were formed. hmm...

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I have said, and I will say it again so you understand, the point I am making is not whether or not the Flood of Noah's time happened but whether the earth has enough water within and without to ever cover it. Seems from scientists the answer is yes. In fact, some scientists say that the earth was completely covered before continents were formed. hmm...

That the entire Earth may have been underwater once does not help you. Events that happened 4 billion years ago do not help you when you are talking about a myth that supposedly happened only 4 to 5 thousand years ago.

 

[River Sea]

Genesis 8 KJV

8 Also he sent forth a dove from him, to see if the waters were abated from off the face of the ground;

9 But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark.

10 And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;

11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Experimental evidence indicates that if you submerge an olive tree fully into water for just three months, the leaves will fall off and the tree dies.

Given the text of the story and that fact, a dove could not have found a living olive tree after a global flood. So the story is either just a story claiming a global flood that didn't happen or the flood was not global as indicated. If the latter, this opens up further questions that would need to be addressed. For instance, why an ark at all if the flood was local? A local flood would not wipe out all humans on Earth, so how can that be explained? And so on.

@Dan From Smithville
Yeah, good question about "a dove could not have found a living olive tree."

I wonder: How is it that people believe in global flooding? What do scientists think global flooding could manage? Is it realistic? Who are these people who wrote about the global flood? Where did these people get these stories that were passed down?

Have you heard of this local flood in Jalore? What about this passed-down story?

The name Vaivaswat Manu eventually changed to Noah; I wonder how?

This local flood in Jalore must have caused this story not to be forgotten. How?

I don't know about doves and olive trees in relation to the local flood; does anyone know if there are any other local floods connected to Noah's global flood compared to the local flood in Jalore?

If so, what names do they have for Noah? The Meena community located in Jalore has Vaivaswat Manu as Noah. If there are other local floods connected to Noah's global flood, are there any communities, and what are the names of their communities?

Oh, and here's a Google Earth image of Jalore if anyone wants to see the bowl shape and how the local flood affects people.

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Dan From Smithville
Yeah, good question about "a dove could not have found a living olive tree."

I wonder: How is it that people believe in global flooding? What do scientists think global flooding could manage? Is it realistic? Who are these people who wrote about the global flood? Where did these people get these stories that were passed down?

Have you heard of this local flood in Jalore? What about this passed-down story?

The name Vaivaswat Manu eventually changed to Noah; I wonder how?

This local flood in Jalore must have caused this story not to be forgotten. How?

I don't know about doves and olive trees in relation to the local flood; does anyone know if there are any other local floods connected to Noah's global flood compared to the local flood in Jalore?

If so, what names do they have for Noah? The Meena community located in Jalore has Vaivaswat Manu as Noah. If there are other local floods connected to Noah's global flood, are there any communities, and what are the names of their communities?

Oh, and here's a Google Earth image of Jalore if anyone wants to see the bowl shape and how the local flood affects people.

View attachment 82197

There have been very powerful and what may seem locally to be huge floods all around the world. At different times of course. I am unfamiliar with the flood that you mentioned, but one of its drawbacks is the distance from that area. The most likely culprit that inspired the stories that led to Noah's Ark was likely this one, in my opinion:

Yes, Noah's Flood May Have Happened, But Not Over the Whole Earth | National Center for Science Education

Introduction The Bible (Genesis 6–9) describes a worldwide flood (the Noachian Flood) covering even the highest mountains of the earth and the construction of a huge boat (a rectangular box-like craft) that transported animals, at least two of a kind of all land animals on the earth.

ncse.ngo

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

@Dan From Smithville
Yeah, good question about "a dove could not have found a living olive tree."

I wonder: How is it that people believe in global flooding? What do scientists think global flooding could manage? Is it realistic? Who are these people who wrote about the global flood? Where did these people get these stories that were passed down?

Have you heard of this local flood in Jalore? What about this passed-down story?

The name Vaivaswat Manu eventually changed to Noah; I wonder how?

This local flood in Jalore must have caused this story not to be forgotten. How?

I don't know about doves and olive trees in relation to the local flood; does anyone know if there are any other local floods connected to Noah's global flood compared to the local flood in Jalore?

If so, what names do they have for Noah? The Meena community located in Jalore has Vaivaswat Manu as Noah. If there are other local floods connected to Noah's global flood, are there any communities, and what are the names of their communities?

Oh, and here's a Google Earth image of Jalore if anyone wants to see the bowl shape and how the local flood affects people.

View attachment 82197

Dan. The Bible word for whole earth also means as far as one can see. So no global flood in the Bible please.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Dan. The Bible word for whole earth also means as far as one can see. So no global flood in the Bible please.

Then what was the purpose of the flood?

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Then what was the purpose of the flood?

Perhaps there was no purpose. A natural event was theologically captured. But of course it is possible that the evil of those people interacted with the consciousness of the clouds to bring forth the rains. But world over a wet phase started at 3000 bce.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Perhaps there was no purpose. A natural event was theologically captured. But of course it is possible that the evil of those people interacted with the consciousness of the clouds to bring forth the rains. But world over a wet phase started at 3000 bce.

That seems to be quite different from what the Bible says or implies. To me the most rational explanation is that the Hebrews picked up the myth during the Babylonian captivity.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

That seems to be quite different from what the Bible says or implies. To me the most rational explanation is that the Hebrews picked up the myth during the Babylonian captivity.

In my reading that is what bible says. And, where did the alleged Babylonian story happen?

 

[Subduction Zone]

In my reading that is what bible says. And, where did the alleged Babylonian story happen?

Babylonia. It is hardly "alleged".

Babylonian captivity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

By the way, the Bible clearly does not say that. Do you remember where the Ark supposedly came to rest? Not necessarily on Mt. Ararat, but on the highlands at the very least. That would have taken a worldwide flood for that part of the myth to occur.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

@Dan From Smithville
Yeah, good question about "a dove could not have found a living olive tree."

Experiments indicate that an olive tree wouldn't last a few months submerged, let alone nearly a year.

I wonder: How is it that people believe in global flooding? What do scientists think global flooding could manage? Is it realistic? Who are these people who wrote about the global flood? Where did these people get these stories that were passed down?

Some Christians consider the Bible to be a literal history. They can believe that if they want, but it isn't a requirement for Christianity. Some Christians have to believe it and defend it, because they will get kicked out of their particular faith group if they don't.

There is no demand to interpret Genesis literally and it isn't a requirement to be Christian. I don't interpret it literally. There is no evidence to support that the event occurred and many valid reasons that it could not.

Have you heard of this local flood in Jalore? What about this passed-down story?

The name Vaivaswat Manu eventually changed to Noah; I wonder how?

This local flood in Jalore must have caused this story not to be forgotten. How?

I'm unfamiliar with all other that, but it is very likely that a local or regional flood inspired stories that grew in the telling and were absorbed by cultural contamination with contact.

I don't know about doves and olive trees in relation to the local flood; does anyone know if there are any other local floods connected to Noah's global flood compared to the local flood in Jalore?

If so, what names do they have for Noah? The Meena community located in Jalore has Vaivaswat Manu as Noah. If there are other local floods connected to Noah's global flood, are there any communities, and what are the names of their communities?

Oh, and here's a Google Earth image of Jalore if anyone wants to see the bowl shape and how the local flood affects people.

View attachment 82197

It certainly looks like a place where local flood would leave a long memory of it.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Dan. The Bible word for whole earth also means as far as one can see. So no global flood in the Bible please.

I agree, there is nothing supporting the claim.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

Babylonia. It is hardly "alleged".

Babylonian captivity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

By the way, the Bible clearly does not say that. Do you remember where the Ark supposedly came to rest? Not necessarily on Mt. Ararat, but on the highlands at the very least. That would have taken a worldwide flood for that part of the myth to occur.

Oh no. Bablylonian captivity only means there was contact. Water does not stay for 150 days in Babylon. Sumerians may have borrowed from elsewhere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh no. Bablylonian captivity only means there was contact. Water does not stay for 150 days in Babylon. Sumerians may have borrowed from elsewhere.

You did not read the link. That has nothing to do with that.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

True. I am not fond of wikipedia. I.d rather hear what u have to say.

 

[Subduction Zone]

True. I am not fond of wikipedia. I.d rather hear what u have to say.

You should have asked. Too late now. Your response was far from being honest. That relieves me of providing you with anything else in the way of evidence.

 

[Bharat Jhunjhunwala]

You should have asked. Too late now. Your response was far from being honest. That relieves me of providing you with anything else in the way of evidence.

As u wish. Though truth will not change. Welcome.

 

[Subduction Zone]

As u wish. Though truth will not change. Welcome.

I am pretty sure that I am the only one that posted the truth. You were caught in a falsehood.