Evidence of NOAH's FLOOD

[shunyadragon]

The following reference by a Rabbi gives a detailed description of the origin of the Glood story of Genesis.

The Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Story - TheTorah.com

In the Gilgamesh epic, Utanapishti tells Gilgamesh the story of the great flood and how he survived it. Scholars have often held that this story lies behind the biblical account of Noah and the flood. However, a good case can be made that an even more ancient tale, the Atrahasis epic, on which...

www.thetorah.com

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The Mesopotamian Origin of the Biblical Flood Story​

In the Gilgamesh epic, Utanapishti tells Gilgamesh the story of the great flood and how he survived it. Scholars have often held that this story lies behind the biblical account of Noah and the flood. However, a good case can be made that an even more ancient tale, the Atrahasis epic, on which the flood story in Gilgamesh draws, is the source of the biblical flood story.

 

[YoursTrue]

IOW Noah was about 40 years old when his sister Naamah became pregnant (Gen 5:32).

The Bible says Noah had three sons AFTER he was 500 years old. Not when he was 500 years old, or 500 months old. It also doesn't say the three sons were triplets.
Genesis 5:32.

 

[Monty]

The Bible says Noah had three sons AFTER he was 500 years old. Not when he was 500 years old, or 500 months old. It also doesn't say the three sons were triplets.
Genesis 5:32.

IOW Noah was about 40 years old when his sister Naamah became pregnant (Gen 5:32).
Or are you claiming that Noah became pregnant at about 40 years old.

 

[Monty]

No, I gave the Jewish Orthodox text and a reference as to what Jews believe and you decided to ignore the reference. ALL the translations say the same thing the mountains were covered by 15 cubits, The Rabbi agrees,

Doesn't change the fact that the KJV and OJB and YLT all clearly say that the flood was only 15 cubits high, and the high hills were covered, and DO NOT say that the high hills were covered by 15 cubits?
I suggest you ask someone who is familiar with the King's English and the purpose and usage of semi colons to explain what Gen 7:20 means in the KJV & OJB & YLT, and how they completely differ to the verse in the NIV which meaninglessly says that the highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits without saying what the actual total flood height was, and whether or not it was actually more than 16000 cubits as some claim.

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise; and the harim were covered. (OJB)
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (KJV)
Fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered; (YLT)

Biblegateway.com says 19 bible versions say that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and 36 versions don't tell us what the actual flood height was, except that it was probably less than 17,000 cubits, but depends whether the highest mountains were covered by more than 15 cubits as stated in some versions.

 

[Kenny]

Though not true. I gave the Jewish Orthodox text and a reference from a Jewish source that yes, the text states the mountains were covered by 15 cubits referencing Mount Ariat. The Jewish source gave a contemporary Jewish understanding of the Genesis flood.

The Torah's Version of the Flood Story - TheTorah.com​

When I read the story of Noah, I see not just ‘words from the sky’ but a distillation of millennia of human experience, of traumatic events that have forged us into what we are and have become etched into human consciousness. | Dr. Rabbi Norman Solomon

www.thetorah.com
Evidence for the Biblical Flood?
In 1929, while excavating Abraham’s native city of Ur, the great British archaeologist Leonard Woolley (1880-1960) observed a thick layer of sediment covering the valley. Not a man to shy away from publicity, Woolley telegraphed messages to the leading newspapers in Britain and the USA announcing that he had found proof of Noah’s Flood. But he was a scholar too, so when he compiled his report, Ur of the Chaldees: A Record of Seven Years of Excavation (London: Ernest Benn Ltd., 1935), he acknowledged that what he had discovered was evidence not of a universal deluge, but of a disaster confined to the lower Tigris/Euphrates valley.

Knowledge of the ancient world has increased exponentially since Woolley’s time. If you think Noah’s Flood was a universal deluge rising to 15 cubits above Mt Ararat in 2100 BCE (1656 years after Creation), give or take or few years, forget it, it never happened; there is overwhelming evidence that most life around the planet continued on its normal course.

Yes… people have different viewpoints.

 

[Kenny]

What!? How so? Please be specific.

I think it was pretty clear.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes… people have different viewpoints.

This, of course, true like the sky is Carolina blue on a sunny 4th of July, but I cited the text in the Jewish Orthodox Torah and Rabbis like @Monty requested. The conclusion of all the text sources is the mountains were flooded by 15 cubits, and the Rabbis have concluded that based on this no such flood ever happened.

 

[shunyadragon]

Doesn't change the fact that the KJV and OJB and YLT all clearly say that the flood was only 15 cubits high, and the high hills were covered, and DO NOT say that the high hills were covered by 15 cubits?
I suggest you ask someone who is familiar with the King's English and the purpose and usage of semi colons to explain what Gen 7:20 means in the KJV & OJB & YLT, and how they completely differ to the verse in the NIV which meaninglessly says that the highest mountains were covered by 15 cubits without saying what the actual total flood height was, and whether or not it was actually more than 16000 cubits as some claim.

Fifteen cubits upward did the waters rise; and the harim were covered. (OJB)
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. (KJV)
Fifteen cubits upwards have the waters become mighty, and the mountains are covered; (YLT)

Biblegateway.com says 19 bible versions say that the flood height was only 15 cubits, and 36 versions don't tell us what the actual flood height was, except that it was probably less than 17,000 cubits, but depends whether the highest mountains were covered by more than 15 cubits as stated in some versions.

Incomplete dishonest citation and misrepresentation of the text you cite. ALL the translations clearly state that ALL people and life died in a world flood.

No, I gave the Jewish Orthodox text and a reference as to what Jews believe and you decided to ignore the reference. ALL the translations say the same thing the mountains were covered by 15 cubits, The Rabbis agree, and based on this the Rabbis agree no such flood ever occurred. You are the one who asked to refer to the Rabbis

 

[shunyadragon]

I think it was pretty clear.

'Think' to vague, be specific.

 

[metis]

If you make Genesis Creation and Flood accounts allegorical, the exodus never happened (its just allegorical too)

Many theologians believe it likely is.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes i am YEC. I could go on for hours and thousands of words with lots of biblical references and cross links that theologically support my position and that of most other YEC, however to keep it short for now its for a rather simple reason...I am a Seventh Day Adventist and I believe in the Sabbath as the sanctified day of worship.

The above circular reasoning and belief without objective evidence cannot justify your belief.

So either the Genesis Creation and Flood accounts are not allegorical or, this entire God thing is a mythical fairytale. There is so much historical evidence proving the existence of bible history and its characters (if you will), its difficult to call it a mythical fairytale given that supporting evidence!

Claims of belief is not an adequate argument. No supporting objective evidence exists. There is no evidence to support Genesis Creation or the flood. Yes, the Pentateuch was compiled after 600 BCE, and yes, Genesis Creation and the Noah flood are mythology. There is only limited evidence for a small event that parallels Exodus, but no evidence for Exodus and the Joshua invasion happened as described. No known Hebrew nor writings of the Pentateuch before 600 BCE.

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[Kenny]

What!? How so? Please be specific.

It doesn’t say how high the mountains were

 

[GardenLady]

I suggest you ask someone who is familiar with the King's English and the purpose and usage of semi colons

Are you suggesting that the original text was in the King's English?

The NIV says the following: The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than fifteen cubits.

Not a total flood depth of > 15 cubits. But covering the mountains to a depth of > 15 cubits.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It doesn’t say how high the mountains were

Isn't this just leading to a gap argument?

 

[Kenny]

Isn't this just leading to a gap argument?

I don’t think so, at least to what my understanding of what the gap is.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes… people have different viewpoints.

They do indeed. But are all viewpoints equal?

 

[Kenny]

They do indeed. But are all viewpoints equal?

Of course not. But there can be a subjective view on whose viewpoint is of more valuable.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don’t think so, at least to what my understanding of the gap is.

There is no solid evidence describing the mountains of the world or their heights in ancient documents, so that leaves a gap of doubt that many have tried to create an argument for the flood out of.

There is no natural reason coming from the application of science to think that the mountains of 5 or 10 thousand years ago were significantly lower and have risen up many 100's or thousands of feet in the time since.

There is no evidence to support attempts to claim this in order to explain the volume of flood water in support of a flood belief, for instance.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Of course not. But there can be a subjective view on whose viewpoint is of more valuable.

Sure. There can be and are lots of subjective viewpoints. Some that are polar opposites of each other. And many of those that are counter to evidence leading to different conclusions.

 

[Kenny]

There is no solid evidence describing the mountains of the world or their heights in ancient documents, so that leaves a gap of doubt that many have tried to create an argument for the flood out of.

There is no natural reason coming from the application of science to think that the mountains of 5 or 10 thousand years ago were significantly lower and have risen up many 100's or thousands of feet in the time since.

There is no evidence to support attempts to claim this in order to explain the volume of flood water in support of a flood belief, for instance.

Ok… there is a different gap theory that has been proposed in Gen 1.

Yes, there is very limited information. We do know a catastrophic earthquake can have immense consequences. A small one (in comparison) caused a 20ft drop in one mountain:

1959 Hebgen Lake earthquake - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I’m not dogmatic about it but I just think that in the realm of possibilities, it is possible. When I read what is in the Bible and the common storyline in multiple religions, I just find it possible.

If someone doesn’t believe it to be historical… ok. Not an issue for me.