Evidence That Jesus Is God

[Faithofchristian]

The 24 elders are clothed in white with gold crowns on their heads. White linen is the righteousness of the saints who have been crowned as kings.

Isaiah 61:10 “I will greatly rejoice in the Lord, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.”

In what way does Isaiah 61:10 fits into the book of Revelation.
According to book of Revelation, What's the purpose of the Saints, after the tribulation. what job does the saints perform, what's their mission?
During the thousand years reign of Christ
here on earth?
What are the saints to accomplish during the thousand years reign of Jesus Christ here on earth?
According to the book of Revelation?

 

[susanblange]

Reincarnation isn't truth at all. It's fantasy and fiction.

If there is an incarnation (of God), there can also be reincarnation. How do you believe all the actors in the play are going to get back to earth? Both Jesus (Lucifer) and Adam (Satan) have been kicked out of Heaven and reincarnated. Spirits will not live on earth until after the resurrection. In the NT it says that Satan fell from Heaven like a bolt of lightning. Isaiah 14:12 says Lucifer fell from heaven. Lucifer means "morning star" and that was who Jesus claimed to be. Revelation 22:16.

 

[Faithofchristian]

And yet in Matthew 27:46 Jesus also said, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" making a clear distinction between god and himself.

.

Can you explain what prophecy Jesus Christ was fulfilling in that of
Matthew 27:46?
While Jesus Christ was here on earth he was fulfilling all prophecies that were written about him.
In what other book in the Bible/scriptures.
where it can be found "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"
That Jesus Christ was fulfilling this prophecy about himself.

 

[susanblange]

Can you explain what prophecy Jesus Christ was fulfilling in that of
Matthew 27:46?
While Jesus Christ was here on earth he was fulfilling all prophecies that were written about him.
In what other book in the Bible/scriptures.
where it can be found "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"
That Jesus Christ was fulfilling this prophecy about himself.

The Messiah was "crucified" on 10/22/69. Psalm 22:1 was fulfilled at the ninth hour and it went like this: My GOD...MY GOD... WHY...hast thou forsaken ME?

 

[Trailblazer]

Actually in John 14:9, Jesus speaking. saying --- "Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest you then, Show us the Father"

Well it's evidence here, what Jesus is implying that he is God the Father.

With all due respect read the verse above. But slowly. Take the time to grasp every word that Jesus is saying.

That is not evidence, it is just your interpretation of words. What that verse means, what any Bible verse means, is ALL a matter of interpretation, which is why some Christians believe Jesus was God and some do not believe that. You think that Jesus is implying that He is God and other Christians do not believe that, nor do I believe that.

This is essentially why there are so many different sects of Christianity, Christians interpret the Bible differently.
I think it is really arrogant for anyone to insist upon their own personal interpretation but they can have an opinion if they want to. We all have opinions, but opinions do not prove anything.

Jesus said: "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father".
Jesus also said "I and my Father are one."

What has happened is that most Christians interpret these verses to mean that Jesus is God.

But what they mean, Imo, is that Jesus was a perfect mirror image of God, a perfect reflection of God, so to SEE Jesus is to SEE God. The Almighty God cannot become flesh, so He manifested Himself in the flesh.

Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.

Regarding that verse, I suggest you read what @ LightofTruth posted yesterday: Evidence That Jesus Is God

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Jesus did not say “Thou shalt love me with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Jesus was commanding them to love the one true God, not to love Him.

Jesus made it clear that God was greater than He was, thus differentiating Himself from God:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

********************************************************************************

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This verse clearly differentiates Jesus from God by the word “and.” Jesus is referred to as Lord as a way to convey respect and awe.

 

[Trailblazer]

None of that is evidence, mere verses from the Bible.

Verses that have been misinterpreted, Imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

That book of garbage can be interpreted in loads of different ways, to suit a particular POV.

You just said what I have been saying to Christians for years on end although I normally refer to the Book as the Bible.... I do not consider the Bible to be garbage just because Christians have misinterpreted it from day one. Of course, Christians will say I am the one who is misinterpreting the Bible, but they have no understanding of logic because they cannot all be right since they disagree, which means that one or all of them are wrong in their various interpretations.....

All I have to do is read on this thread for a few minutes to know why I prefer posting to nonbelievers.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are three levels of both Heaven and Hell. The death of the spirit can be instant, you can spend time in Hell, or as in the case of Satan, you could rot forever in Hell, but only Satan will experience this. Deuteronomy 32:22, Psalm 86:13, Psalm 88:6. The three levels of Heaven are where the archangels reside and are always in the presence of God, middle level are where most angels are and are in the presence of God on Shabbat and holidays, lower level angels are those who have been forgiven but will forever live in infamy of what they've done and they will be resurrected to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2. They are only in the presence of God on Yom Kippur.

That sounds kind of like the description in the book entitled Heaven and Hell.

It sounds reasonable but I do not know how you think you can know all of that? I guess it is from your particular interpretation of your scriptures, but scriptures can have various interpretations.

So the 100-dollar question I always wonder about is if it matters if one believes in God or if it matters what religion one is? Can they still get to heaven if they are an atheist? Do you think they have to be any particular religion?

 

[Trailblazer]

You normally have to have a human spirit to go to Heaven but it's possible that animals can go there. Also, humans can only be reincarnated as other humans.

I sure hope animals go to heaven because otherwise I would prefer not to go there.

I did not know Jewish people believed in reincarnation.
I do not believe in reincarnation. I believe that the soul continues to progress in the spiritual world, it never comes back to this world. I have no idea what it means to attain the presence of God.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156

 

[Faithofchristian]

That is not evidence, it is just your interpretation of words. What that verse means, what any Bible verse means, is ALL a matter of interpretation, which is why some Christians believe Jesus was God and some do not believe that. You think that Jesus is implying that He is God and other Christians do not believe that, nor do I believe that.

This is essentially why there are so many different sects of Christianity, Christians interpret the Bible differently.
I think it is really arrogant for anyone to insist upon their own personal interpretation but they can have an opinion if they want to. We all have opinions, but opinions do not prove anything.

Jesus said: "He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father".
Jesus also said "I and my Father are one."

What has happened is that most Christians interpret these verses to mean that Jesus is God.

But what they mean, Imo, is that Jesus was a perfect mirror image of God, a perfect reflection of God, so to SEE Jesus is to SEE God. The Almighty God cannot become flesh, so He manifested Himself in the flesh.

Jesus was like a clear mirror, and God became visible in the mirror, but God did not descend into the mirror. This is why Christ said, “The Father is in the Son,” meaning that the God was visible and manifest in this mirror.

Regarding that verse, I suggest you read what @ LightofTruth posted yesterday: Evidence That Jesus Is God

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Jesus did not say “Thou shalt love me with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. Jesus was commanding them to love the one true God, not to love Him.

Jesus made it clear that God was greater than He was, thus differentiating Himself from God:

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, 'Away from me, Satan! For it is written: "Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

********************************************************************************

1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

This verse clearly differentiates Jesus from God by the word “and.” Jesus is referred to as Lord as a way to convey respect and awe.

Jesus is God the Father, how does this work.
God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ. How does this work?
How is God the Father greater than Jesus Christ, If Jesus Christ is God the Father?

It seems your having a hard time in putting things together.
There is a way that works. Have any clue or idea how it works ?

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus is God the Father, how does this work.
God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ. How does this work?
How is God the Father greater than Jesus Christ, If Jesus Christ is God the Father?

It seems your having a hard time in putting things together.
There is a way that works. Have any clue or idea how it works ?

Jesus Christ is not God the Father, Jesus is the Son of God.
God the Father is greater than Jesus Christ because God is greater than anyone.
We know that because Jesus said so.

 

[susanblange]

That sounds kind of like the description in the book entitled Heaven and Hell.

It sounds reasonable but I do not know how you think you can know all of that? I guess it is from your particular interpretation of your scriptures, but scriptures can have various interpretations.

So the 100-dollar question I always wonder about is if it matters if one believes in God or if it matters what religion one is? Can they still get to heaven if they are an atheist? Do you think they have to be any particular religion?

The righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven, including atheists. Right now it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. The wicked and the righteous come in all races, creeds and colors. The wicked will go to Hell along with those who refuse to repent of their sin. On Judgment Day, 97% of earth's inhabitants will be cut off by fire, spontaneous combustion. Isaiah 24:6. They will be given time and fair warning before that happens.

 

[Trailblazer]

When Jesus Christ returns, the body of flesh and blood will no longer be. But everyone will become Spirit beings.

1 Corinthians 15:50-54
50--"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory"

Therefore no one will be of flesh and blood when Jesus Christ returns. Everyone will be changed to Spirit beings.

For flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God. Everyone must be Spirit beings to inherit ( enter) the kingdom of God.

I agree that we will become spirit beings after we die because the soul (spirit) is the essence of who we are, not the physical body.

1 Corinthians 15:12-25 is all about spiritual death, not physical death. Bodies once dead do not rise from graves and come back to life and put on another body. When the physical body dies the soul leaves the body and goes to the spiritual world. The soul then takes on a spiritual body comprised of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual realm. All souls continue to exist for eternity. The souls who are close to God are spiritually alive so they have eternal life and go to heaven, whereas the souls who are far from God are spiritually dead go to.... well, I do not know where they go, but it has often been called hell, because hell is nothing other than distance from God. Those souls might still have a chance to get close to God if they reach out to God, by the mercy of God and the prayers of others but there is no guarantee, and that is why it is best to get close to God before we die.

When Jesus Christ returns, Jesus Christ will established his kingdom here on Earth at the New Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven to be here on Earth.

Jesus never promised to return. Jesus said His work was finished here and the world would see Him no more, so there is no reason to believe that Jesus is going to return. I understand that is a Church teachings but it is not based upon anything Jesus ever said and it is based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible. When Jesus died He said “It is finished” and that correlates with all the verses in John which was the last Gospel written.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Then in the next chapter you have these verses:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world, or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to (1) glorify God (glorified thee on the earth) and (2) that I should bear witness unto the truth. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to be IN this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

 

[Trailblazer]

The righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven, including atheists. Right now it doesn't matter what your religious beliefs are. The wicked and the righteous come in all races, creeds and colors. The wicked will go to Hell along with those who refuse to repent of their sin. On Judgment Day, 97% of earth's inhabitants will be cut off by fire, spontaneous combustion. Isaiah 24:6. They will be given time and fair warning before that happens.

What scripture is that based upon, that that the righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven, including atheists?

I do not interpret all the words of the prophets such as Isaiah literally. Some are intended to be interpreted literally, but we have to parse those out.

 

[susanblange]

I sure hope animals go to heaven because otherwise I would prefer not to go there.

I did not know Jewish people believed in reincarnation.
I do not believe in reincarnation. I believe that the soul continues to progress in the spiritual world, it never comes back to this world. I have no idea what it means to attain the presence of God.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156

There are animals in Heaven. They are called cherubim and they were created spiritual beings. They were created before Adam and Eve, but their relationship with God was not fulfilling to him. So God decided to reproduce himself.

 

[susanblange]

What scripture is that based upon, that that the righteous of all faiths will enter Heaven, including atheists?

I do not interpret all the words of the prophets such as Isaiah literally. Some are intended to be interpreted literally, but we have to parse those out.

I am sharing with you my personal theology and doctrine. Nobody has taught me what I believe. I am a Fundamentalist and I take the scriptures at their plain, literal meaning. I do not believe the OT is perfect, but it is remarkably accurate.

 

[Trailblazer]

There are animals in Heaven.

I sure hope you are right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am sharing with you my personal theology and doctrine. Nobody has taught me what I believe. I am a Fundamentalist and I take the scriptures at their plain, literal meaning. I do not believe the OT is perfect, but it is remarkably accurate.

Not really. The first two books of the Bible are known to be mythical. That does not disprove Christianity, it only tells us of the errant beliefs of some Christians.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Peter never described Jesus as "our God". "Savior", yes. But never as Almighty God. Matthew 16:16 is Peter quoted as saying "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God". The fact that Jesus is often described in scripture as being holy or higher than the angels in no way makes him God. Jesus had always held the second-highest position in the universe, next to God, when he was in heaven and again when he returned to heaven following his earthly death. Your own comment regarding Hebrews 12:2 is further testimony that while Jesus certainly occupies a glorious position in heaven, he sits "at the right hand of the throne of God", and NOT "on the throne as God". The Bible itself shows that Jesus is the mediator between God and man, hence the need for humans to pray TO GOD, but THROUGH Jesus. The fact that Jesus himself regularly engaged in prayer (see all of John chapter 17) further shows his lesser position in relation to God.

There are countless verses showing Jesus is God, consider the prophecies for example, that the Messiah is ETERNAL, not created (Micah 5, Isaiah 9).

 

[JJ50]

There are countless verses showing Jesus is God, consider the prophecies for example, that the Messiah is ETERNAL, not created (Micah 5, Isaiah 9).

And totally meaningless.