Evidence That Jesus Is God

[Faithofchristian]

I agree that we will become spirit beings after we die because the soul (spirit) is the essence of who we are, not the physical body.

1 Corinthians 15:12-25 is all about spiritual death, not physical death. Bodies once dead do not rise from graves and come back to life and put on another body. When the physical body dies the soul leaves the body and goes to the spiritual world. The soul then takes on a spiritual body comprised of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual realm. All souls continue to exist for eternity. The souls who are close to God are spiritually alive so they have eternal life and go to heaven, whereas the souls who are far from God are spiritually dead go to.... well, I do not know where they go, but it has often been called hell, because hell is nothing other than distance from God. Those souls might still have a chance to get close to God if they reach out to God, by the mercy of God and the prayers of others but there is no guarantee, and that is why it is best to get close to God before we die.

Jesus never promised to return. Jesus said His work was finished here and the world would see Him no more, so there is no reason to believe that Jesus is going to return. I understand that is a Church teachings but it is not based upon anything Jesus ever said and it is based upon a misinterpretation of the Bible. When Jesus died He said “It is finished” and that correlates with all the verses in John which was the last Gospel written.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Then in the next chapter you have these verses:

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world, or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to (1) glorify God (glorified thee on the earth) and (2) that I should bear witness unto the truth. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to be IN this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

No one goes into hell. Until the Great White Throne Judgement.
Which happens after the Thousand years are finished. Revelation 20:1-15.

While Jesus Christ was here on earth, his work was finished, when Jesus Christ was nailed to the cross.

In the book of Acts 1:10-11----"
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"

Therefore Jesus Christ shall return in his second coming.

Matthew 24:29-30
29--"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

Therefore Jesus Christ shall return back to earth in his second coming.

This only happens after the tribulation and then Jesus Christ returns.

Jesus Christ does return back to earth to rule it.
Revelation 19, is all about the return of Jesus Christ and to rule here on earth.

 

[Faithofchristian]

A mere belief not a fact.

It is fact. God the Father is greater than Jesus being of flesh and blood.

Therefore Jesus is God the Father.

 

[JJ50]

It is fact. God the Father is greater than Jesus being of flesh and blood.

Therefore Jesus is God the Father.

It isn't a fact at all, you have no verifiable evidence to substantiate that god exists.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It isn't a fact at all, you have no verifiable evidence to substantiate that god exists.

As a Christian all the evidence that I need is found within the Bible/Scriptures. The whole Universe proclaims and the earth itself.
Of course you wouldn't be able to handle that.

Even now scientist are starting to realize the existence Of God.
That the whole universe is a fined tuned holding together by a great power.

 

[JJ50]

As a Christian all the evidence that I need is found within the Bible/Scriptures. The whole Universe proclaims and the earth itself.
Of course you wouldn't be able to handle that.

Even now scientist are starting to realize the existence Of God.
That the whole universe is a fined tuned holding together by a great power.

The Bible has never been any sort of evidence. Science is not realising a god exists!

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Bible has never been any sort of evidence. Science is not realising a god exists!

That's you and not a Christian point of view.
As for a Christian the bible/scriptures is all a Christian needs.
Maybe you should do some studying on the subject. Many Scientist are coming to realize that there is God behind the design of the universe.
Maybe you need to come to date and not stay in the pass tents of things.

 

[Trailblazer]

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood to come down here on earth in.
That body is Jesus Christ.

Therefore Jesus Christ is God the Father.

I believe that God is, and has always been been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived.

God cannot 'become flesh' because God is spirit and God remains in His own high place, never to be seen. That is why Jesus said:

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Christians believe that God incarnated Himself in Jesus Christ, and God became a man.

Baha'is believe that God manifested Himself in the flesh in Jesus Christ.

Here is an excerpt from an article that explains the difference between incarnation and manifestation.

“The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God…..

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9)…..

The New Testament, similarly, contains statements where Jesus describes Himself as God, and others where He makes a distinction between Himself and God. For example, 'I and the Father are One (John 10:30); and 'the Father is in me, and I am in the Father (John 1038); but on the other hand, 'the Father is greater than I (John 14:28); and 'Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone (Mark 10:18; Luke 18:19). These statements do not contradict, but are complementary if one assumes they assert an epistemological oneness with God, but an ontological separateness from the Unknowable Essence.

The Christian concept of the Trinity arose out of the need to explain statements such as these. The earliest Christians tended to be "binitarian," that is, they stressed the Father and the Son. The third person of the Trinity was added because of the experience of the Spirit in Christian worship and in order to explain many doxologies and expressions used in worship that included the Holy Spirit…”

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

 

[Trailblazer]

While Jesus Christ was here on earth, his work was finished, when Jesus Christ was nailed to the cross.

That is true. His work was finished and that is why Jesus said in John 19:30 “It is finished!”

Jesus also said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

In the book of Acts 1:10-11----"
10 And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;

11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven"

Therefore Jesus Christ shall return in his second coming.

Those verses do not say that the same body of Jesus will return. Jesus clearly said that His work was finished here and that He is not coming back to earth again (John 17:4, John 17:11).

In Acts 1:10-11 the disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits. Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God.

Matthew 24:29-30
29--"Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory"

Jesus did not say “And then shall they see me coming in the clouds with great power and glory because He was not referring to Himself in all the verses that say that the Son of man will appear (Mark 14:62, Mark 13:26, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64).

Not once in the entire NT did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth.
Why would Jesus keep it a secret if He had been planning to return to earth?

The title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah. It is a Baha’i teaching that the title applies to both Jesus and Baha’u’llah.

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Therefore Jesus Christ shall return back to earth in his second coming.

This only happens after the tribulation and then Jesus Christ returns.

Jesus Christ does return back to earth to rule it.
Revelation 19, is all about the return of Jesus Christ and to rule here on earth.

Why did Jesus say His work was finished here (John 17:4) and He was no more in the world (John 17:11) if He was planning to return to earth? Why did Jesus say “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36) if He was planning to come back and build a kingdom on earth? When asked if He was a king, why did Jesus say explain to Pilate “To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth” (John 18:37) if Jesus was coming back to rule as a king, as Christians believe? All these things are clues that tell us that Jesus was never planning to return to earth to rule and build the Kingdom of God, and that means that the Messiah who would accomplish this has to be another man.

Revelation 19 does not refer to Jesus. It refers to another Person who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and the Messiah that the Jews have long awaited.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Jesus denied being a King in John 18:36 and John 18:37.
Jesus never claimed to be the Lord of Lords.

 

[oldbadger]

.

Looking through the Bible the closest thing I could find is that at most Jesus was the son of god. In fact, several times Jesus made a distinction between god and himself. (The notion that he was one of "three coeternal consubstantial persons" wasn't finally formulated until 381AD.)
.

Yes. True.
Jesus, like John the Baptist, was a man! Just a man!

But Christians are not interested in seeing or acknowledging the evidence.
And if Christianity should fall, then so might Islam, Babi and Bahai (for many believers) behind it.

But I.T., today's and tomorrow's youth and the wonders of the international network will slowly carve in to it all, and then the scholars will get a bit more daring with their findings, maybe?

 

[oldbadger]

That is true. His work was finished and that is why Jesus said in John 19:30 “It is finished!”

Jesus also said:

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Those verses do not say that the same body of Jesus will return. Jesus clearly said that His work was finished here and that He is not coming back to earth again (John 17:4, John 17:11).

In Acts 1:10-11 the disciples were staring up into the sky. The two men dressed in white (angels) came along and asked why they were staring up into the sky. The two men then wondered why the disciples were staring up into the sky and said that the same Jesus who was taken up to heaven will return as he went to heaven. It does not say that the disciples saw a body go up.

It was the Christ Spirit that ascended, not a body, which is why the angels wondered why the disciples were staring into the sky, since there was nothing to look at. That makes perfect sense since angels can see spirits. Descending from heaven upon the clouds means that the spirit of Jesus, the Christ Spirit, will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God and will appear in the form of the human temple. Though delivered from the womb of Mary, Jesus in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God.

Jesus did not say “And then shall they see me coming in the clouds with great power and glory because He was not referring to Himself in all the verses that say that the Son of man will appear (Mark 14:62, Mark 13:26, Matthew 24:30, Matthew 26:64).

Not once in the entire NT did Jesus ever say He was coming back to earth.
Why would Jesus keep it a secret if He had been planning to return to earth?

The title ‘Son of man’ is symbolic of the perfect humanity that Jesus represented, but it does not apply exclusively to Jesus. It ultimately comes from the Book of Daniel, where it refers to the Messiah. It is a Baha’i teaching that the title applies to both Jesus and Baha’u’llah.

To explain in brief, I believe that ‘Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven’ means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although Jesus was delivered from the womb of His mother, in reality He descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, His true habitation was the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, Jesus soared in the heaven of the divine presence.

Why did Jesus say His work was finished here (John 17:4) and He was no more in the world (John 17:11) if He was planning to return to earth? Why did Jesus say “My kingdom is not of this world” (John 18:36) if He was planning to come back and build a kingdom on earth? When asked if He was a king, why did Jesus say explain to Pilate “To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth” (John 18:37) if Jesus was coming back to rule as a king, as Christians believe? All these things are clues that tell us that Jesus was never planning to return to earth to rule and build the Kingdom of God, and that means that the Messiah who would accomplish this has to be another man.

Revelation 19 does not refer to Jesus. It refers to another Person who would be the return of the Christ Spirit and the Messiah that the Jews have long awaited.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.

Jesus denied being a King in John 18:36 and John 18:37.
Jesus never claimed to be the Lord of Lords.

The John that wrote G-John and Revs never ever saw or met Jesus in his lifetime. He was not John BarZebedee. So you quoting John incessantly just shows how non existent the evidence is.

John didn't even know when Jesus cleared out the money-dealers in the Temple.... he reckoned it was in Jesus's first week of mission. It was in Jesus's last week of the mission. Easy.

John just compiled his idea of the Jesus story from a cluster of documents and sayings about Jesus, and the rest he dreamed.

 

[Trailblazer]

The John that wrote G-John and Revs never ever saw or met Jesus in his lifetime. He was not John BarZebedee. So you quoting John incessantly just shows how non existent the evidence is.

John didn't even know when Jesus cleared out the money-dealers in the Temple.... he reckoned it was in Jesus's first week of mission. It was in Jesus's last week of the mission. Easy.

John just compiled his idea of the Jesus story from a cluster of documents and sayings about Jesus, and the rest he dreamed.

What about Matthew, Luke, and Mark? Those were not written by the apostles were they?
So how are they any more reliable than John?

If John is not accurate, so much for Jesus being God as per John 1:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Just that....Jesus is second highest next to God himself.

Is that a Bible term, "second highest to God but not God?"

Jesus isn't a mere man, isn't an angel, isn't God, so why can't we find a defining term for Him, do you think?

 

[THE Art Vandelay]

Is that a Bible term, "second highest to God but not God?"

Jesus isn't a mere man, isn't an angel, isn't God, so why can't we find a defining term for Him, do you think?

Why is one necessary?

 

[THE Art Vandelay]

What is a correct doctrine of the Trinity?

.

There isn't one since the very notion of the "trinity" has no Biblical basis or support and is a completely false doctrine.

 

[THE Art Vandelay]

Let's take a closer look at this.

Jesus did say, "The Father is greater than I"

While Jesus was here on earth,
Jesus was of flesh and blood.

Therefore Jesus being of flesh and blood,
The Father is greater than Jesus being of flesh and blood.

Therefore Jesus is the Father,
The Father is greater than Jesus being of flesh and blood.

God the Father made himself a body of flesh and blood to come down here on earth in.
That body is Jesus Christ.

Therefore Jesus Christ is God the Father.

Thereby God the Father is greater than Jesus being of flesh and blood.

The Father is ALWAYS greater than (and separate from) Jesus, who is the SON. Whether Jesus was on earth or when he returned to heaven, he continued to remain submissive to the very God Jesus himself worships. God did not make "himself a body of flesh and blood to come down here on earth". God assigned that task to the very Son he himself created and loved dearly. Jesus came to the earth, God did not. Jesus having been created by God in no way is equal to God.

 

[Skwim]

There isn't one since the very notion of the "trinity" has no Biblical basis or support and is a completely false doctrine.

That, you'll have to take up with Muffled.

.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why is one necessary?

Because you've created a new idea (or if you like, HERESY) by creating a nebulous term I cannot find in orthodox Christian literature of the last 2,000 years.

Make sure I understand, though?

Jesus isn't a mere HUMAN
Jesus isn't an angel
Jesus isn't both HUMAN and GOD (about 500 Bible verses and Bible prophecies come to mind, at least)
Jesus isn't GOD at all, not even a bit

GOD
Jesus (an "I dunno", what that no one has named in 2,000 years, a close second)
ANGELS
PEOPLE

So, for example, calling Him the LORD JESUS CHRIST, when I'd NEVER call ANYONE but God LORD, I AM, MASTER, since I'm a JEW, is a Bible "error". Baal is not LORD, a rabbi isn't LORD.

 

[JJ50]

Because you've created a new idea (or if you like, HERESY) by creating a nebulous term I cannot find in orthodox Christian literature of the last 2,000 years.

Make sure I understand, though?

Jesus isn't a mere HUMAN
Jesus isn't an angel
Jesus isn't both HUMAN and GOD (about 500 Bible verses and Bible prophecies come to mind, at least)
Jesus isn't GOD at all, not even a bit

GOD
Jesus (an "I dunno", what that no one has named in 2,000 years, a close second)
ANGELS
PEOPLE

So, for example, calling Him the LORD JESUS CHRIST, when I'd NEVER call ANYONE but God LORD, I AM, MASTER, since I'm a JEW, is a Bible "error". Baal is not LORD, a rabbi isn't LORD.

In your opinion. In mine, Jesus was a human like the rest of us, far from perfect, no sort of god.

 

[BilliardsBall]

In your opinion. In mine, Jesus was a human like the rest of us, far from perfect, no sort of god.

I'm sorry, Jesus, who is biblically the ruler of Judgment Day, sinless, and ascended among angels after His death, is "a human just like the rest of us, far from perfect"?

Why do you think "sinless" per the Bible does not equal "morally perfect"?

If Jesus isn't perfect, why must every one bow before Him, including Satan, do you think?

I'm confused and hope you'll help me understand.

 

[JJ50]

I'm sorry, Jesus, who is biblically the ruler of Judgment Day, sinless, and ascended among angels after His death, is "a human just like the rest of us, far from perfect"?

Why do you think "sinless" per the Bible does not equal "morally perfect"?

If Jesus isn't perfect, why must every one bow before Him, including Satan, do you think?

I'm confused and hope you'll help me understand.

The Bible says a lot of daft things, which should not be taken literally, imo.