Evidence

[Spirit of Light]

Then, according to you, there must be some other senses, other than purely physical ones. If you can establish their existence I'll grant your point.

I only replied that way because I believe in the Spirit world, and in God i don't ask others to believe the same as I do.

 

[F1fan]

It is not my personal religious view .. it is made very clear in the Qur'an, and I understand why usury is prohibited.

Clear to you, but not to your fellow Jews, Christians, and Muslims, so not so clear objectively. What do you think of your fellow believers?

Many atheists, such as those who study sociology and Karl Marx also understand why it is distasteful.

Feel free to present evidence. I won't take your word for it.

It is not "economic progress" .. it makes some people rich, at the expense of others.

It can in certain situations, not as a rule. So irrelevant.

..not loans .. usury.
In some places, people have next to nothing, while in others people are subjected to high levels of toxins caused by excess wealth.
..and it is those who are wealthy that have a large carbon footprint.

OK, so now loans are OK? You have been using loans and usury equally. It isn't, so are you confused about terms? Your vague posts leave us wondering what you are on about.

Jesus, peace be with him, overturned the tables of the money-changers in the temple ..he disapproved.
..and the Sanhedrin plotted against him. Nothing new there.

What did it change in how Western nations do business? Nothing.

Why should a person make a profit just because he has money?

Because it is a service to others. It hels others acheive what they couldn't otherwise. Do note you keep using the word ususry which means illegal and excessive interest rates, but your arguments have been against legal loans and interest rates. Even with this you are fine with investing money for a return, but not loaning money for a return, and what is the difference? Either way money is used to make money. Effort and sweat is used to make money.

That is not work. It is immoral earnings.

So sayeth you.

Again, usury is illegal and excessive interest on loans. Usury isn't basic and reasonable intrest rates, like your typical mortgage and bank loans.

Obviously, the greater the amount of interest charged, the more oppressive it is, yes.

Well cite the passages in the Old Testament and Quran that inflorms us what number is oppressive.

It is all subjective. You see "good", because there are winners in such a system.
Most people did not see the collapse of financial institutions in 2008 as "good". It led to the so-called "Arab spring" amongst other things .. such as massive cuts in public spending around the world.

Greed has led to market collapses. That is driven by rather stupid people who are in essence gambling. This has led to regulations being set on financial markets to help prevent these bad actors from making stupid decisions again. Let's note the more religious republicans have been opposed to regulations, while the liberals have been in favor of reguklations, so you can ponder that before your next post. If your religious texts were so damn authoritative why are the Christian conservtives so opposed to the directives? It's almost as if THEY are the non-believers.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Greed has led to market collapses..

Well spotted..

That is driven by rather stupid people who are in essence gambling..

..trading in "futures" you mean?

Trading money in general, is no good.
It leads to speculation.

Let's note the more religious republicans have been opposed to regulations, while the liberals have been in favor of reguklations..

That's politics, and not religion.
One does not necessarily directly correlate to the other.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

To see or hear something spiritual i think we can not purely use our physical eyes or ears.

I've been experiencing what you described every day since I was six years old, but I'm referring to spirits rather than any deities. It is called mental mediumship. I'm not 100% certain that any deities exist, but I think it's possible since I believe the spirit world is real.

 

[F1fan]

..trading in "futures" you mean?

The futures markets were created to help stablilize commodity prices in the FUTURE. This way the supply and demand forces won't affect the current market prices.

How the greedy have manipulated these markets has been a dispute between liberals and conservatives. Conservatives want free markets, and then means less stability and more exploitation, while liberals wants the opposite. Conservatives claim more risk means more reward, and this generally serves the wealthy.

So did your holy books understand greed and exploitation had negative effects? You bet, simple observations. Why don't the more religious acknowledge this as bad? Your own religious conservatives are more likley to ignore this this than liberals. Explain.

Trading money in general, is no good.
It leads to speculation.

It's gambling. Don't bet more than you can afford to lose. It's good when you win. Bad when you lose. The negative effect of losing at gambling is on those who couldn't afford it. So go preach to thoise who can't afford it. Those who can afford to gamble and lose will be OK.

That's politics, and not religion.
One does not necessarily directly correlate to the other.

Republican politics and religion are the same these days. Yet we see republicans going against what your are suggesting. Explain.

And thanks for dropping your usury claims. I take it you stand corrected.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Republican politics and religion are the same these days..

Ridiculous..
..not all Republicans are Christian Evangelists.

In any case, people believe all kinds of things, including atheists.
You just want to make it all about religion, because it suits your agenda.

And thanks for dropping your usury claims. I take it you stand corrected..

Most amusing .. I've said my piece .. obviously people will deny it .. people always have.
They tend to think of themselves first, and not those at the bottom of the ladder.
..and these things "come back to bite".

Nevertheless, it is always worth mentioning.

 

[River Sea]

The RM-124 gene may provide evidence of such a link. This gene is found widely among the Indian Yadava community; and also among 2 percent of Ashkenazi Jew

A possibility is that the original home of the Hebrews was in the Indus Valley

Why would it matter what Aristotle thought? And if you are going to claim only one gene then you would need to check all of the surrounding areas. If it is widely prevalent that would harm your case.

That is exactly the point. It is widespread among yadavas who are the cowherds. This gene is not widespread in the West.

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Subduction Zone

• Why are there still Yadavas in India if the Yadavas-Hebrews left the Indus Valley to travel to Canaan? Did some Yadavas return or never leave?

• I read this and discovered that there are still Yadavas in India. Are these Yadavas who are still in India aware that they are also Hebrews, and do they know that some of the Yadavas left for Canaan during the Moses era?

Here it is showing Yadavas in India
Violence in Eastern religions

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Bharat Jhunjhunwala @Subduction Zone

• Why are there still Yadavas in India if the Yadavas-Hebrews left the Indus Valley to travel to Canaan? Did some Yadavas return or never leave?

• I read this and discovered that there are still Yadavas in India. Are these Yadavas who are still in India aware that they are also Hebrews, and do they know that some of the Yadavas left for Canaan during the Moses era?

Here it is showing Yadavas in India
Violence in Eastern religions

I personally do not believe in the idea of Yadavas migrating to Israel. It could have happened but I do not know of any valid reason to believe that. I was merely offering a way that @Bharat Jhunjhunwala could find some evidence for his beliefs. In the sciences a test that could possibly refute an idea is much stronger than one that at best merely confirms. The test I offered would more likely refute his beliefs.

 

[River Sea]

I personally do not believe in the idea of Yadavas migrating to Israel. It could have happened but I do not know of any valid reason to believe that. I was merely offering a way that @Bharat Jhunjhunwala could find some evidence for his beliefs. In the sciences a test that could possibly refute an idea is much stronger than one that at best merely confirms. The test I offered would more likely refute his beliefs.

@Subduction Zone While I agree with @Bharat Jhunjhunwala that the Yadavas fled to Canaan, I'm interested as to why there are still Yadavas living in India now. I assumed all Yadavas abandoned the Indus Valley for Canaan, but I see there are Yadavas in India now. Didn't their ancestors go with Krishna Moses?

@Subduction Zone Could you perhaps explain why you believe there are no valid reasons for Yadavas-Hebrews to leave the Indus Valley?

 

[Subduction Zone]

@Subduction Zone While I agree with @Bharat Jhunjhunwala that the Yadavas fled to Canaan, I'm interested as to why there are still Yadavas living in India now. I assumed all Yadavas abandoned the Indus Valley for Canaan, but I see there are Yadavas in India now. Didn't their ancestors go with Krishna Moses?

@Subduction Zone Could you perhaps explain why you believe there are no valid reasons for Yadavas-Hebrews to leave the Indus Valley?

No, I don't know why anyone would believe that they are the same person, except for the fact that neither ever existed.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Thanks for your concerns. In regards to the evidence of God I can provide eye witness testimony of what happened to me when I died as proof of His existence. In my testimony I'm going to cross examine myself in a hostile way to provide proof my death experience was not the result of wishful thinking I could keep living even though I was dying on that faithful day.

Ok, so as I lay dying 60 miles from Corpus Christi highway, my last thought was not of fear, it was of anger and relief. My last thought was goodbye cruel world I can't wait to blink out of existence to erase this horrible experience of life behind. You see I'm a good person that had a rough life so I was glad to die! People can't say I had a subconscious wish to live because I didn't want to live anymore at the time. So the argument of me having some sick fantasy of secretly wanting to live so my subconscious mind had to hallucinate a heavenly place would not apply to me. In reality, my subconscious fantasy would have been to cease to exist and that is important to know how my frame of mind would counter any wish to continue on after I die.

I was so happy I died but a strange thing happened. I was still able to think and have a consciousness! I was no longer in pain and I had such peace enter my soul it was amazing, and then, more bizarre things started happening to me again! I was not only having a consciousness, I started to have a super consciousness and suddenly I realized I was at 2 different places at the same time! I am not a mathematician but what happened to me was that I was transforming into 2 things. A recently deceased person from the living world and a spiritual entity from the supernatural world in the same way conjoined particles of entangled photons of light are able to communicate with each other regardless of distance that separates them.

Please bear in mind my death occured in 1986 and I had no ideal how Quantum physics can explain my 2 states of matter in a super position in a random field of no grid points to measure by.

I'm sorry for using such technical terms, but I'm offering this very detailed and technical experience I had as proof of my travel to a place I believe was Heaven. In all honesty I'm not smart enough or creative enough to come up with such a detailed or elaborate experience to dream up so I believe that everything that happened to me on that day was real!

While I was there I was also shown a unified Law that harmonizes the micro and macro verse that Einstein could not solve. The reason photon particles of (A)(B) can have instant communication regardless of the distance that separates them is that they are conjoined at different dimensions that pass through our dimension by a point of singularity. Because higher dimensions are infinitely small, space and time does not exist in them that is why instant communication and travel is possible when using the subspace of a higher dimension in reference to our space/time plane of existence.

I have very simple graphs to show how a 3 dimensional object can wrap around a 2 dimensional one to bypass the speed of light limit Einstein imposed in his mathematical equations regarding general relativity. I am offering this explanation as exhibit A as further proof of my travel to Heaven.

Well in essence I became a riddle as I traveled to Heaven:

I was here.
I was there.
I was everywhere and nowhere Simultaneously in a place that does not exist!

I was here and there from quantum entanglement that connected my physical body to my spiritual one, I moved from life to death in an instant and for a brief moment I was alive and dead at the same time (look up Schrödinger's cat paradox)

In this state of mind I briefly felt the presence of millions of souls of people that died and stayed near the Earth realm of purgatory. These poor people were so obsessed with the living they either didn't notice the light or were afraid of it because people that pass through this light never come back!

I didn't stay with them for long even though time does not exist in the spiritual realm, but I began to transform into something else! I changed from particle matter to wave form and in this duality state of being I traveled a great distance instantaneously. It was incredible, I felt the entire universe around me and for a moment I became the entire universe too! This was the first time in my life when I finally understood how everyone and everything is connected to each other and it was beautiful!

I traveled so far and so fast I lost my bearings! Was I up or down? Maybe I was traveling sideways and then I wondered what was I and when was I, because time did not exist there. I also want to mention that at no time during my death experience was I ever afraid! I was having too much fun and was in awe and wonder what would happen next!

Well after my travel ended it felt like I changed back from wave form to particle matter again but I couldn't see anything. I was blind, but the amazing thing was that I didn't need my eyes to see anymore because it felt like I evolved into a higher life form and it was amazing!!!

Suddenly my new sight allowed me to see that I was on a stage near a foyer entrance to a place I assumed was Heaven. At that time I suddenly became surrounded by 12 angels of 6 feminine and 6 masculine beautiful souls I considered family, because they felt like family to me. I want to make a note that these Angels represented the 12 tribes of Earth, but to this day, I still don't know what that means, lol!!!

They came to me with such unconditional and unbelievable love I never seen before in my entire life and it overwhelmed me with tears of gratitude of how kind they were. I was no one special but they made me feel like I was and it melted my heart! I finally understood what true love meant and we hugged each other for 3 billion years without ever letting go, it was amazing! I just want to note that 3 seconds or 3 billion years is the same time in that plane of existence and that is what makes it so amazing, anyway:

There was a strange thing I noticed about my new Angel family. We weren't talking in English or any other language. Their language seemed to be binary numbers since mathematics is a universal language everyone understands and after I understood the process of communicating, their mathematical language sounded like perfect English to me wow! I'm not a linguistic person in life, but in that amazing place, I was!

After billions of years of being with them they suddenly let go of me and withdrew from my presence which caught me off guard, but I soon found out why they did that.

A great King was approaching their way and all of them bowed down to Him out of pure joy of seeing Him, it was amazing to see royal subjects bow down, not because they had to, but because they wanted to out of respect for this incredible King.

Oh I was so happy for my Angel family to see such perfection come their way, but imagine my surprise when this great King came directly to me and came within an inch to my face. I felt like I didn't deserve to see Him but He was so happy to see me even though He was concerned!

He had such a kind and loving personality and it was so enduring! He laughed when He saw me but not in a mocking way, He was just glad to see me and He spoke. "Your not supposed to be here, I have to take you back to Earth, it's not your time to be here yet my child." He noticed my concern and said that it was ok if people reject Him because He loves them with all His heart. His only request to me was that when I return to Earth let the people know of His love for me and His love for people is never ending. It was so amazing because I wasn't commanded to save the world, his request was a beautiful modest one to give people hope and comfort in knowing that people have a home to come to when they pass away, from a God that loves them dearly!

When He brought me back to our universe he gently carried me back to our galaxy, then to our solar system and finally Earth. It was such a peaceful ride back to life and so organized from the Quantum mess I had to endure to get to Heaven.

When we neared Earth I began to feel the atmosphere and the need to breathe again! I began to hear faint voices from 3 frantic nurses from a distance that were working on me saying "I Can't Feel A Pulse, She No Pulse! Oh wait a minute, I feel a pulse now, she is returning back to us!

Well that is my incredible story of the time I died and met God. I hope my frame of mind, the complex Quantum equations and very specific details of the Angles and King I met give undoubted proof that God exists, thanks for allowing me to share my story with you!

Thank you for sharing your story and welcome to RF!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

This OP moves over to this question.

It is about our own Obligations to pursue the evidence.

Obligation as Faith leaders

Regards Tony

 

[rational experiences]

Humans are family.

DNA science study of human genesis says first humans were anywhere on earth. Same mother father tribal human. Same human parents for everyone.

Wasn't said that everyone had owned the same two parents. Lots of human parents were all the same.

First observed evidence humans are misquoting the read advice.

Everyone is first before human sex related as humans by brother sister terms mutual equal. Virgins.

Babies are inherited being a human virgin too.

A teaching.

Doesn't need any review as a theist. To infer what you teach is reality... when it isn't.

Natural observation by humans as their babies selves since know they as first humans died are now skeletal mineral dusts.

As minerals are in water.

Water function bio life is cell health cell replacement oxygenation non stop until you die. Known. We are given life by heavens mass support. Taught. Isn't special...unless a scientist tried to change living conditions.

Ignored evidence.

So water oxygen breathing leaves the bio life...what gets left decomposed stays with God earth.

Pretty basic aware evidence.

No thesis about our pre life whatsoever.

Laws....I'll teach my family says the baby human adult life's creator. That heavens biology laws in human life now only belong to a holy human baby life.

I'm equal man to my brother and sister I'm hence just a teacher not a leader. Don't idolise me or my words. I'm only trying to bring reason to your minds.

Yet you do. Ignore what is said. As you choose the subject to discuss. Separated topics are not one natural life.

What self evidence aren't you abiding now? Baby adult I own heavens support now myself adult human.

Self Idolating. Humans not claiming mutual equal governing for all life on earth. As men are role playing authoritarian positions. False history.

Self given.

History as told by human memory only...
Brothers mind changed by star fall. Not DNA changed...mind defected.

Ignore father's family with mother holiness mutuality and rights as elders. Wisdom natural.

Says in a cult group the first....one of us as men and baby adults needs to take group leadership like our father had.

You are nothing like father and you lie.

Biggest mistake you made. As now brothers as leaders wants brothers just all to be brothers...no leaders.

You all ignored and still do today our holy father was holy with mother.

Two leaders. Mutual who did not impose any authoritarian place...you chose to leave that type of living experience as rich greedy science men.

They lived mutually only with quiet care moving freely and lovingly in their life. Real humanity evidence.

So you are now consciously twice removed.

Is your human man owned evidence today. As human first before organisation or edict.

So humans warn humans.

Laws..space pressures exact as it's always been mutually interactive with held mass.

So men stated I name earth one God of all sciences multi gods. Alchemist.

One God existed only by space womb as mother of God. The only mother in science is by space pressures.

Today warn all scientists you removed earths mass. Pressures change.

You remove earth gas mass spirit heavens by sun mass crossing to cooling. Body Sacrificed spirit gases...pressures change.

You apply heat yourselves unnaturally.

You apply cold yourselves unnaturally.

Pressures change.

As pressures change you get the signs. As pressure cannot just shunt out sun mass anymore like it was.

As men now mass remove new earth mass. Chosen. Chosen in testimony says so god now changes and does evil acts to life. A teaching of relativity on earth.

On the ground as men tried to break open Gods earth great seal. Being earth itself as mass. Laws.

It's rock.

In science its own human background science by practice is rock earth. As in science. As once a heavens in space by laws pressures had not existed.

It was caused by the rock body only.

Is our human teaching.

Why do humans take a challenge that can kill their life without human fear?

As humans consciousness had been changed already from innocent holy baby is our exact teaching.

No longer does the human baby honour as an adult natural law on earth. The human parents first history before the garden nature was attacked.

Teaching as sex owns sin hence the chemical biology of consciousness expressed. And human destroyers now live among us.

Our warning.

Make comparisons is human first and only. Baby to first parents.

Not scientific human theories evidence... the evidence man of science is wrong.

 

[joelr]

and ignoring the traits you don't want to admit He has, like infallibility.

He was wrong about all the science he mentioned.
He brought no new philosophy except for cursory and superficial evangelism and common knowledge about being good to others.
He composed praise poetry and was prolific with writing.
He made no detailed prophecy, gave no new additions to science, medical knowledge, mathematics and knew of no biblical historicity, which at the time was unknown and is now known. He could have explained any of that.
In fact he made comments about the OT being the oldest works which was the belief of humans at that time.
Everything he said was knowledge that humans already had. So why would a God give a messenger exactly enough information to a person to make them appear like a person who is making up a religion? Give them bad science, no philosophy, just poetry, generic prophecies easily debunked? While older versions claim miracles of all sorts, dead people raising up all over the place, the moon splitting in half, this time he goes with poetry and mistakes about evolution?

Yet despite this you find this credible evidence that he is communicating with a deity.
Then you employ confirmation bias when called out and turn it around claiming it's the humans fault rather than the message.
This is exactly how religions and cults indoctrinate members, you cannot seem to explain why this would be different but somehow expect different results? Because it worked on you and you seem to be able to overlook these issues does not mean you have evidence.

But how is someone infallible if all of the science they put forth is incorrect?

This is evidence? Yes, actually it is evidence. It's evidence that a writer who was familiar with the Quran and Bible decided to claim he too was one getting revelations. Except he decided to call it being a "messenger". Because an unlimited God couldn't just talk to every person at once telepathically, he had to do it in a way exactly how other people fake it and make it impossible to tell the difference.
As if it's funny to be ambiguous like that.

Jane Roberts also claimed to be channeling an entity called Seth, she wrote many books and held classes and her work is stored at the Yale library. How do you know she isn't telling the truth? Or Abraham-Hicks or any other medium, channeler of person claiming revelations. Since the standards look to be so low now.

Can you demonstrate even one paragraph that is something any person could not simply write without a deity?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

He was wrong about all the science he mentioned.
He brought no new philosophy except for cursory and superficial evangelism and common knowledge about being good to others.
He composed praise poetry and was prolific with writing.
He made no detailed prophecy, gave no new additions to science, medical knowledge, mathematics and knew of no biblical historicity, which at the time was unknown and is now known. He could have explained any of that.
In fact he made comments about the OT being the oldest works which was the belief of humans at that time.
Everything he said was knowledge that humans already had. So why would a God give a messenger exactly enough information to a person to make them appear like a person who is making up a religion? Give them bad science, no philosophy, just poetry, generic prophecies easily debunked? While older versions claim miracles of all sorts, dead people raising up all over the place, the moon splitting in half, this time he goes with poetry and mistakes about evolution?

Yet despite this you find this credible evidence that he is communicating with a deity.
Then you employ confirmation bias when called out and turn it around claiming it's the humans fault rather than the message.
This is exactly how religions and cults indoctrinate members, you cannot seem to explain why this would be different but somehow expect different results? Because it worked on you and you seem to be able to overlook these issues does not mean you have evidence.

But how is someone infallible if all of the science they put forth is incorrect?

This is evidence? Yes, actually it is evidence. It's evidence that a writer who was familiar with the Quran and Bible decided to claim he too was one getting revelations. Except he decided to call it being a "messenger". Because an unlimited God couldn't just talk to every person at once telepathically, he had to do it in a way exactly how other people fake it and make it impossible to tell the difference.
As if it's funny to be ambiguous like that.

Jane Roberts also claimed to be channeling an entity called Seth, she wrote many books and held classes and her work is stored at the Yale library. How do you know she isn't telling the truth? Or Abraham-Hicks or any other medium, channeler of person claiming revelations. Since the standards look to be so low now.

Can you demonstrate even one paragraph that is something any person could not simply write without a deity?

That is so wrong and contrary to all the available evidence given by Baha'u'llah, that it needs no response other than this.

Regards Tony

 

[joelr]

That is so wrong and contrary to all the available evidence given by Baha'u'llah, that it needs no response other than this.

Regards Tony

In other words you cannot refute it and have no evidence. But I do. I'll start with the first, but there is much more science to debunk, this is just a sample of some bizarre claims. It isn't even the actual science part.


"
Evolution and the True Nature of Man
WE NOW COME to the question of the transformation of species and the evolutionary development of organs, that is, whether man has come from the animal kingdom.
So if we were to imagine a time when man belonged to the animal kingdom, that is, when he was merely an animal, existence would have been imperfect. This means that there would have been no man, and this chief member, which in the body of the world is like the mind and the brain in a human being, would have been lacking, and the world would thus have been utterly imperfect. This is sufficient proof in itself that if there had been a time when man belonged to the animal realm, the completeness of existence would have been destroyed; for man is the chief member of the body of this world, and a body without its chief member is undoubtedly imperfect. We regard man as the chief member because, among all created things, he encompasses all the perfections of existence.”


As we know, homo sapiens are great apes and 100% part of the animal kingdom (many other groups as well) and he clearly wasn't aware of the future science from DNA, to large scale and fossil records.
Not only was the world not imperfect but it lasted for billions of years without human. Only 200,000 years out of 3.5 billion were we around.
These claims are absurd crank.

“Now, were one to establish the existence of vestigial organs, this would not disprove the independence and originality of the species. At most it would prove that the form, appearance, and organs of man have evolved over time. But man has always been a distinct species; he has been man, not an animal.”

Here he understands vestigal organs have begun to be found and uses an apologetic to hand wave it away. Bahai was supposed to follow science. It appears that was wrong, they deny science.
He isn't yet aware of the fossil record for hominids yet because he's making several weird arguments for man being not-animal -
"
The first answer to this argument is that the antecedence of animals to man is not a proof that the essence of the human species was altered or transformed or that man came from the animal kingdom."

Essence? Each hominid changed slightly ending with H. Sapien. That is what happened. Still animals, mammal and so on

Another kind of healing is through the force of bodily magnetism, where the magnetic force of one body affects another body and brings about the cure. This force, too, has only a slight effect. Thus someone may lay his hand upon the head or stomach of a patient and perchance the latter will benefit from this. Why? Because the effect of the magnetism, and the impression made upon the psyche of the patient, may dispel the disease. But this effect is also very slight and weak.

Ok, healing magnetism. Wow, that's not crank pseudo science. Why did he believe that? Well, - In the 18th and 19th centuries Franz Mesmer dramatically increased the popularity of magnetic healing with his “animal magnetism.” He thought that animal magnetism was a unique force of nature that flowed like a fluid through living things. He also thought he could manipulate it through a combination of hypnotism and laying on of hands. Yeah, he's not getting this from a God.

The two other kinds are spiritual; that is, the means of healing is a spiritual power. One is when a healthy person focuses his whole attention upon a sick person, and the latter in turn fully expects to be healed through the spiritual power of the former and is wholly convinced thereof, to such an extent that a strong connection is created between their hearts

Spiritualism was also believed to have healing powers. There were those in the movement known as “spiritualist doctors” who subscribed to the ideas of Anton Mesmer. Mesmer - a 18th Century physician - believed that the body was governed by a magnetic fluid and, when an imbalance occurred, it could cause all manner of ailments.

This type of crank continues to find no credible evidence and kill many who suffer from terminal cancer who use alternate new age methods over chemo.


Some Answered Questions | Bahá’í Reference Library

So God wanted to tell people all about a bunch of crank anti-science in the 1800's? The entire paper is full of complete junk science. Now magnetism and electromagnetism were united by Maxwell soon after. He could have said something about that, or that EM was a wave?
Like I said, his science is all wrong.
There is cosmic stuff in that paper knowing nothing about a big bang, other galaxies or anything cosmological except what was already known at the time.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

As we know, homo sapiens are great apes and 100% part of the animal kingdom (many other groups as well) and he clearly wasn't aware of the future science from DNA, to large scale and fossil records.
Not only was the world not imperfect but it lasted for billions of years without human. Only 200,000 years out of 3.5 billion were we around.
These claims are absurd crank.

Firstly, you have misquoted and inserted quotes that I did not offer. That is a breach of etiquette.

The point is you have no concept of what Abdul'baha was offering, who derived all knowledge from the Message of his Father, Baha'u'llah. All these subjects have far more implications and explanations.

Abdul'baha does not reject evolution, but supports it, the key being that evolution is not random but all part of an intelligent creative process, so the potential of humanity has evolved as a distinct species. This does not discount that at one time we may have even swum in the sea. The key here is the potential of the species is not random.

The human species is very ancient, Baha'u'llah has confirmed there has been many lost civilizations going back for a very long time. The way I understand what was offered, is that there is no time that the potential of the human species was not part of this creation, right from the beginning, that has no beginning and to the end, that has no end.

We are just really an ignorant self serving germ, at this moment a blight on this planet and the universe. We do more harm than good.

Yet our potential is infinite and great.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

He was wrong about all the science he mentioned.
He brought no new philosophy except for cursory and superficial evangelism and common knowledge about being good to others.
He composed praise poetry and was prolific with writing.
He made no detailed prophecy, gave no new additions to science, medical knowledge, mathematics and knew of no biblical historicity, which at the time was unknown and is now known. He could have explained any of that.
In fact he made comments about the OT being the oldest works which was the belief of humans at that time.
Everything he said was knowledge that humans already had. So why would a God give a messenger exactly enough information to a person to make them appear like a person who is making up a religion? Give them bad science, no philosophy, just poetry, generic prophecies easily debunked? While older versions claim miracles of all sorts, dead people raising up all over the place, the moon splitting in half, this time he goes with poetry and mistakes about evolution?

Yet despite this you find this credible evidence that he is communicating with a deity.
Then you employ confirmation bias when called out and turn it around claiming it's the humans fault rather than the message.
This is exactly how religions and cults indoctrinate members, you cannot seem to explain why this would be different but somehow expect different results? Because it worked on you and you seem to be able to overlook these issues does not mean you have evidence.

But how is someone infallible if all of the science they put forth is incorrect?

This is evidence? Yes, actually it is evidence. It's evidence that a writer who was familiar with the Quran and Bible decided to claim he too was one getting revelations. Except he decided to call it being a "messenger". Because an unlimited God couldn't just talk to every person at once telepathically, he had to do it in a way exactly how other people fake it and make it impossible to tell the difference.
As if it's funny to be ambiguous like that.

Jane Roberts also claimed to be channeling an entity called Seth, she wrote many books and held classes and her work is stored at the Yale library. How do you know she isn't telling the truth? Or Abraham-Hicks or any other medium, channeler of person claiming revelations. Since the standards look to be so low now.

Can you demonstrate even one paragraph that is something any person could not simply write without a deity?

I dis not say that Abdu'l-Baha was infallible. I said that God is infallible, and as a Manifestation of God, Baha'u'llah was infallible.

 

[rational experiences]

The life position now.

A small group of brothers in agreement reicarnated returned their human DNA conscious type.

All science studies says remembering who was your DNA life mind lived before is remembered exact. Newly born again.

They began all wrongs against family. First star affected mind men. Were spiritual chose Satanism.

Bahuallah terms man said it wasn't my life. I dont know nor understand science. I'm not a false minded satanic science brother who caused anti Christ heavens attack.

I love family and father's real life. I now advocate humane governing my reasons.

Pretending to be a non sexual being man ..... father. The brothers realised self possessiin.

Not really the holy origin sex father today blame family for being out of control. The I'm not really father mind and agreement I'm holier than he was... I'm non sexual.

Is the notated behaviours idolators of self history the rich man king...lords...scientists. Controllers abusers who starved family...murdered enslaved family..pretending they are a God man as theism.

My thoughts my studies own why everything exists. But are just men.

The actual warning is exact advice.

Men who knew by changed mind they hadn't agreed nor wanted to alter human families origin governing and enstate human rights.

Is our human themed study consciousness.

By sex is a father why we are told they were not truthful. Unlike their holy mind selves. That had become unholy.

Yet a lot of them just do sexually engage but not as mother father had. Claiming I'm not wrong...sex and sin and population is..out of my controls now.

We get told they want us destroyed. All cause effects of meddling with nature's human natural family is their fault. Population controlled by hard working mutual family life in nature conditions.

They do intricate detailed life status about all things before us. Wanting it all to be exact. They want it all to survive why they data genesis it.

Yet body type isn't data. It's a whole living mass celled body.

Yet now not to want human population...just the small origin family they first theoried upon and against is in the moment of I want science.

Is the teaching and always was about this returning group of men in body type and mind.

Science had not existed anywhere is the great con.

Everything had however existed.

The idea to change life mind body came from stars mass return. The actual mind only advice. Body human mass cell owned. Only science held constants began its removal.

Same advice seen again. Sporadic very bad ground bio attacks. To mass population slowly bio dying.

Today he wants the advice why a small transmitter exists knowing it had been cooled. Knowing how a transmitter begins is evil.

As in fact he wants the mass of it inside his machine. A new resource.

The idea I want to transport UFO mass into just small controlled masses in heavens is naturally dealt with. He wants it put back into a machine mass reaction.

In actual laws he wants to force a UFO to enter his machine. As earth laws is first. Our Evidence. Vacuum places any condition exact.

He says humans own bodily the small transmitters.... yet only origin life body mind type was sacrificed removed so those small transmitters can exist.

We haven't healed to be origin DNA as the heavens artificial causes won't allow it. Which he knows he's advised by the same advice. Still constantly sacrifycing it.

Only he lied claiming it ended. A reactive mass only as an attack ended. The falling star hits kept returning.

Why the document was exacted so Satanists cannot argue cause effects. Known liars.

He says he can do it again. As a mass attack as he wants the Jesus terms only...by thesis mass reaction.

So he's gone about studying disaster activation above and earthquake tectonic carpenter meanings.

Human origins are always inferred.
Population type in first science choice is also always inferred...all in the advices thesis mode. Is to use memory about life. Small human population. Yet small group theoried anti effect is his lie.

Self owned scientists man memory is about his group ...rich men now....not origin holy small family healthy population....never rich.

Small group they want to survive is theirselves. By all strategies. Yet the want of origin spiritual family is in the thesis also. As he theories knowingly today to sacrifice us.

Yet in the past he never knew it would as he doesn't want to die himself.

Knowing science only Sacrificed the natural larger group. As the smaller living by bio sacrificed human life is all that's left.

Seeing only sex owns life presence everyone is survivng as not a whole origin life. He thinks mass population against everyone.

Is human warnings.

It's about self advocacy. It's not about arguing upon a human idol as a misconstrued subject. Humans owned the experience. Documented it as one self human only.

It was given as proof who Jesus as a human man's experience was. Heavenly star mass caused only.

As what the evidence of its return meant so men couldn't pretend they are special God men.

As your sister a psychic I nearly died as a baby. I own a seen memory of mothers water life saving me. I began hearing father and you no longer were listenibg to father. Father in the heavens by how you preached and now taught the advice.

My warning as a woman. I realised we lost our conscious mind and ability to use the advice correctly by dark ages star fall cause.

 

[rational experiences]

The life position now.

A small group of brothers in agreement reicarnated returned their human DNA conscious type.

All science studies says remembering who was your DNA life mind lived before is remembered exact. Newly born again.

They began all wrongs against family. First star affected mind men. Were spiritual chose Satanism.

Bahuallah terms man said it wasn't my life. I dont know nor understand science. I'm not a false minded satanic science brother who caused anti Christ heavens attack.

I love family and father's real life. I now advocate humane governing my reasons.

Pretending to be a non sexual being man ..... father. The brothers realised self possessiin.

Not really the holy origin sex father today blame family for being out of control. The I'm not really father mind and agreement I'm holier than he was... I'm non sexual.

Is the notated behaviours idolators of self history the rich man king...lords...scientists. Controllers abusers who starved family...murdered enslaved family..pretending they are a God man as theism.

My thoughts my studies own why everything exists. But are just men.

The actual warning is exact advice.

Men who knew by changed mind they hadn't agreed nor wanted to alter human families origin governing and enstate human rights.

Is our human themed study consciousness.

By sex is a father why we are told they were not truthful. Unlike their holy mind selves. That had become unholy.

Yet a lot of them just do sexually engage but not as mother father had. Claiming I'm not wrong...sex and sin and population is..out of my controls now.

We get told they want us destroyed. All cause effects of meddling with nature's human natural family is their fault. Population controlled by hard working mutual family life in nature conditions.

They do intricate detailed life status about all things before us. Wanting it all to be exact. They want it all to survive why they data genesis it.

Yet body type isn't data. It's a whole living mass celled body.

Yet now not to want human population...just the small origin family they first theoried upon and against is in the moment of I want science.

Is the teaching and always was about this returning group of men in body type and mind.

Science had not existed anywhere is the great con.

Everything had however existed.

The idea to change life mind body came from stars mass return. The actual mind only advice. Body human mass cell owned. Only science held constants began its removal.

Same advice seen again. Sporadic very bad ground bio attacks. To mass population slowly bio dying.

Today he wants the advice why a small transmitter exists knowing it had been cooled. Knowing how a transmitter begins is evil.

As in fact he wants the mass of it inside his machine. A new resource.

The idea I want to transport UFO mass into just small controlled masses in heavens is naturally dealt with. He wants it put back into a machine mass reaction.

In actual laws he wants to force a UFO to enter his machine. As earth laws is first. Our Evidence. Vacuum places any condition exact.

He says humans own bodily the small transmitters.... yet only origin life body mind type was sacrificed removed so those small transmitters can exist.

We haven't healed to be origin DNA as the heavens artificial causes won't allow it. Which he knows he's advised by the same advice. Still constantly sacrifycing it.

Only he lied claiming it ended. A reactive mass only as an attack ended. The falling star hits kept returning.

Why the document was exacted so Satanists cannot argue cause effects. Known liars.

He says he can do it again. As a mass attack as he wants the Jesus terms only...by thesis mass reaction.

So he's gone about studying disaster activation above and earthquake tectonic carpenter meanings.

Human origins are always inferred.
Population type in first science choice is also always inferred...all in the advices thesis mode. Is to use memory about life. Small human population. Yet small group theoried anti effect is his lie.

Self owned scientists man memory is about his group ...rich men now....not origin holy small family healthy population....never rich.

Small group they want to survive is theirselves. By all strategies. Yet the want of origin spiritual family is in the thesis also. As he theories knowingly today to sacrifice us.

Yet in the past he never knew it would as he doesn't want to die himself.

Knowing science only Sacrificed the natural larger group. As the smaller living by bio sacrificed human life is all that's left.

Seeing only sex owns life presence everyone is survivng as not a whole origin life. He thinks mass population against everyone.

Is human warnings.

It's about self advocacy. It's not about arguing upon a human idol as a misconstrued subject. Humans owned the experience. Documented it as one self human only.

It was given as proof who Jesus as a human man's experience was. Heavenly star mass caused only.

As what the evidence of its return meant so men couldn't pretend they are special God men.

As your sister a psychic I nearly died as a baby. I own a seen memory of mothers water life saving me. I began hearing father and you no longer were listenibg to father. Father in the heavens by how you preached and now taught the advice.

My warning as a woman. I realised we lost our conscious mind and ability to use the advice correctly by dark ages star fall cause.

The factual known by holy men of father's agreed life mind...no life was meant to be Sacrificed were first church healer group only.

Medical men. Healers who agreed with Jesus life hurt advices.

They realised just as before men's mind returning same group keep looking back. As bio return their own memory using now to first satanic men's group history.

To do it again.

How a theists mind functions is exact.

Everything to exist in nature but only a small human family theirselves.

Never a whole ground life and never a holy conscious spiritual family rights life.

Just their lives by their terms.

Why Nero and men like Galileo were dealt with as criminals. As they were known past life mind criminals.

As it's true about the first group of human satanic science theists. Sun stars mass return by Infinite Rock's laws broken.

As sun plus it's burst plus infinite put rock mass into spaces new law. As the law. So no man was allowed to remove mass.

Wandering stars not on an orbit is proof origin sun position had changed. Making the universe a colliding universe and dangerous.

Was the exact teaching.