leroy
Well-Known Member
Sure,For a start you could begin to acknowledge when you have been shown to be wrong.
1 Quote any claim that you think is wrong
2 show that it is wrong
3 then I will admit that I am wrong.
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Sure,For a start you could begin to acknowledge when you have been shown to be wrong.
Of course it is..Money is an instrument of exchange. It saves us from having to barter everything..
This thread is about evidence, and I was stating how I am certain about what God prohibits such as usury, being a major cause of climate-change, and enmity between mankind.What alternative system do you propose? Serious question, and I may agree with you. The problem is that any system is going to have to cope with greed, which is not going to go away..
..but that's not how big business works.Incidentally, there is nothing to stop us distributing wealth more fairly under any system. Progressive taxation is one means,.
No, sorry, We are not playing that game. I do not fret over your past losses.Sure,
1 Quote any claim that you think is wrong
2 show that it is wrong
3 then I will admit that I am wrong.
Ok so do you expect me to admit that I was wrong despite the fact that I have no idea on what claim are you talking about .No, sorry, We are not playing that game. I do not fret over your past losses.
No. it has to happen in the correction of your posts. A fake apology will not get you anywhere. Just act better in the future and people will treat you better. Most of us do not hold grudges. They do no good.Ok so do you expect me to admit that I was wrong despite the fact that I have no idea on what claim are you talking about .
Ok I admit my mi mistake.
It that good enough for you?
"And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules." (Ez 36:27)Christ means "Annointed One". Jesus was he Christ, Annointed of the Holy Spirit, not humanity.
Those that receive Christ, can reflect the Holy Spirit, only to the extent they polish the Mirror of their hearts.
Regards Tony
If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.No, we can't deny them, but we don't have to believe in everything that is in the Bible. Jesus did not write the Bible.
Not when the messenger's claim is one of a million others, and there's nothing in particular to set it apart.If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.
That sounds more like something the anti-Christ would do.I'd advocate God hacking into every radio, TV and internet feed simultaneously, stating his message, and effecting a series of worldwide miracles to demonstrate his power.
If Christians, Muslims, Baha'i, and others insist there is a God, and it creatd everything, then it is you believers that have to be accountable for what you claim, and then fail to demonstrate is true with credible evidence. We critical thinkers throw our your magical claims, but you theists want to throw out your Creator being responsible for what it created. Now that is fine if you are Deists, but you all are theists, and your God is asked to intervene when trouble hits...and that diverts blame away from us?
The wishful thinking is by those who think referring to Gods answers any questions. It only creates more questions and answers nothing. Critical thinkers reason with evidence to make valid conclusions...wishful thinking.
I see any believer who thinks their personal religious veiws applies to those who disagree as extemists. Your arguments against banks and loans is highly flawed. You have your belief because you interpret holy books that way, while many of your fellow believers disregard it. You cite greed and economic progress as a bad effect of loaning money, yet greed is expressed even when loans are not part of the issue. And you think pollution is caused by loans? Well there is probably a cause and effect due to progress being tied to access to money through loans, but as a cause of pollution? Not really. As we see there are many nations setting anti-pollution policies and still have banking. It's not like loans themsleves create emmissions, it is indirect, and there are ways to minimize emmissions.I'm not a religious extremist .. unless you see praying 5 times a day as extreme .. you probably do.
The subject is evidence, and as long as some theists show themselves to have contempt for science, and evidence, then it will be an observed fact that is pointed out. Why don't you acknowledge that creationists have contempt for science? That many conservative Christians reject climate change and vaccinations? Making observations that are embarrassing to believers is not an ad hom, it's an observation.More nonsense.
Why don't you stick to the subject, instead of continually diverting to ad hominem..
You are, and I am asking you for evidence why your claims are valid, and thus far it is exc eptionally weak. Your interpretation of holy books is laughable as evidence, because there is no God known to exist that would suggest these stories are true.PS we are discussing the evils of usury.
Why not?Money is not a commodity .. it shouldn't be traded as if it is.
Well this does happen. If you wnat to argue against predatory loans I will agree with you. there have been laws banning it, and many have been prosecuted for criminal loan practicies. I have a problem with the federal loan rate of around 5-6% that has led to a great deal of hardship for people paying back loans. Some of the blame is students talking out such big loans, but then again they are young and should have been given better advice from schools. But it is schools who got the money, so did they really have an incentive to talk students out of big loans? Here we are with an issue about ethics, and exploiting people. For some reason you have yet to mention this and only rail on the basic function of loaning money. The problems I outline here is a basis for a good argument, but your argument is broad, vague, and doesn't acknowledge the good it does.The whole financial system depends on the manipulation of interest rates, as paper money is in reality worthless.
It is a system that makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer.
And who made all these greedy people? Hmmm, it wasn't the CREATOR was it?Almighty God does not like greed .. the world is in a mess because of greed.
Fortunately, this world is temporary, and we don't have to live in it forever.
Like being a Mulsim?It's all in the mind..
We get used to a system and cannot imagine anything else.
Uh oh, you're not becoming a progressive liberal, are you? You must not feel too passionate about this issue because you don't bother offering any more thought than a bullet point.There is a certain amount of wealth in the world, and right now, it is not fairly distributed.
Naturally, the ones who benefit would like to see it continue as it is .. while those that are suffering at the bottom of the ladder, would like to see change.
I like what Bronowski said of war, he called in a "highly organized form of theft" and that is true. What Russia is attempting to do in Ukraine is theft. And this comes from poor mental health and many vices of thought. You might call that spiritual but there are many religious who do it to. Look at Islamic extremists in Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, and Iran.This creates enmity and war. Civil war, and international war.
Peace cannot be obtained by ignoring spiritual truth.
And why would God created such a being? Omniscient and omnipotent he would have been at fault if he did.That sounds more like something the anti-Christ would do.
I don't know .. aren't people gullible.
It is not my personal religious view .. it is made very clear in the Qur'an, and I understand why usury is prohibited.I see any believer who thinks their personal religious veiws applies to those who disagree as extemists..
You saying so does not make it true.Your arguments against banks and loans is highly flawed..
It is not "economic progress" .. it makes some people rich, at the expense of others.You cite greed and economic progress as a bad effect of loaning money,.
..not loans .. usury.And you think pollution is caused by loans?
..and is this going to solve the climate-change emergency? No.As we see there are many nations setting anti-pollution policies and still have banking..
I do acknowledge that both believers and disbelievers can be ignorant.Why don't you acknowledge that creationists have contempt for science?
You may laugh .. but while there are so many people suffering through no fault of their own, I take climate-change and its causes very seriously.Your interpretation of holy books is laughable as evidence,.
Jesus, peace be with him, overturned the tables of the money-changers in the temple ..he disapproved.Why not?
Obviously, the greater the amount of interest charged, the more oppressive it is, yes.Well this does happen. If you wnat to argue against predatory loans I will agree with you. there have been laws banning it, and many have been prosecuted for criminal loan practicies. I have a problem with the federal loan rate of around 5-6% that has led to a great deal of hardship for people paying back loans..
It is all subjective. You see "good", because there are winners in such a system.The problems I outline here is a basis for a good argument, but your argument is broad, vague, and doesn't acknowledge the good it does.
I have no idea what you are talking about.I like what Bronowski said of war, he called in a "highly organized form of theft" and that is true..
"And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules." (Ez 36:27)
Baha'u'llah was sent by God to the entire world. If most of the world still remains in darkness, it is not God's fault.If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.
I like that creative way to respond. Use a previous post to convey your message. Why waste time typing?Baha'u'llah was sent by God to the entire world. If most of the world still remains in darkness, it is not God's fault.
Seven reasons why more people have not recognized Baha’u’llah yet
Actually it is if one claims that God is omniscient. And it doubly is if he is omniscient and omnipotent.Baha'u'llah was sent by God to the entire world. If most of the world still remains in darkness, it is not God's fault.
Seven reasons why more people have not recognized Baha’u’llah yet
You have no idea how much I have saved from past posts in Word documents.I like that creative way to respond. Use a previous post to convey your message. Why waste time typing?
We were talking about other Manifestations and message in the Bible contradicting Baha'u'llah (different kinds if theophany, HS for all...).Baha'u'llah was sent by God to the entire world. If most of the world still remains in darkness, it is not God's fault.
Seven reasons why more people have not recognized Baha’u’llah yet
I guess you did not bother to read the list of seven reasons. They are all owing to human factors.Actually it is if one claims that God is omniscient. And it doubly is if he is omniscient and omnipotent.
You said: If original words are lost then it makes no sense to send a Messenger only to a few people while the rest of the world remains in darkness. This is a very inefficient way of communication.We were talking about other Manifestations and message in the Bible contradicting Baha'u'llah (different kinds if theophany, HS for all...).