Evidence

[TransmutingSoul]

How come then, I can I live my life very happily without God, it does not make me, break me, I am still creative and is fictional

That is because we have free will. The apex of our animal state is to live a full material life. Survival of the fittest, look after # 1

Wheras the apex of spiritual rebirth is submission unto God and becoming a servant to all of humanity. Serving every person as a brother or sister, as one's own flesh. It means becoming selfless which includes looking after one's own self to enable selfless actions.

Regards Tony

 

[John53]

I will take 30 seconds to offer the evidence as God has given it to us.

To make it personal, Jesus said one must be born again. That is because Jesus as Christ, gave a Revelation and a Message from God, which is the personal Message to each of us.

This is the only way we can know God as we are contained and the contained cannot fathom or know the uncontained.

Thus a link to being born again is understanding the Message given by Jesus the Christ, the Word of God.

The evidence.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE

Regards Tony

You speak for God with his/hers/their approval?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

There are no manifestations of God. God has sent no one to tell people what to do. That would be contrary to the system God has in place. God will never ever tell anyone what to choose. It is mankind who fights to control the choices of others.

You are now speaking for God? What evidence do you have for that statement.

The Messengers have left their person, their Revelation and the Word as evidence.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

On the other hand, we can consider God does send a Messenger to each of our doors, in one way or another, then it depends if we want to open the door and then have a conversation!

To those that do not get a knock, we know they are exempted from answering.

Regards Tony

God sends the message to everyone but it is by General Delivery, so everyone has to go and pick it up at the post office.

God does not send messages via Special Delivery, which is what atheists want.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You speak for God with his/hers/their approval?

I am sharing or quoting their evidence. I can only speak from my own actions in judging that evidence.

Regards Tony

 

[John53]

I am sharing or quoting their evidence. I can only speak from my own actions in judging that evidence.

Regards Tony

No, you are sharing or quoting evidence of someone who claims to have received it from God. Hearsay, which is not accepted as evidence.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So if someone breaks into my house, holds a gun to my head, steals all my valuables while claiming their ability to do this is evidence for their Gods I should just accept it? Kind of an extreme example I know but many people have done evil things in the name of their Gods.

It also brings up the problem of the sheer number of Gods throughout the ages, many with conflicting ideas. Surely they can't all be true?

It never happens that way.

A Messenger is born into the world, is raised lives and works amongst the people they will give the initial Message to.

It is never compulsory, it is offered to all that want to hear.

The issue is, most do not want to hear, they do not want to change their material ways. They are comfortable, so they continue with the status quo, persecute the Messenger who wants the good of all people, so they can let the poor remain poor, let the rich become richer, let predudices remain, let men think they are better then women, etc etc.

Regards Tony

 

[John53]

That is because we have free will. The apex of our animal state is to live a full material life. Survival of the fittest, look after # 1

What free will does an abused child have?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, you are sharing or quoting evidence of someone who claims to have received it from God. Hearsay, which is not accepted as evidence.

Then you would be saying that all evidence in most court cases is just hearsay.

The testimonials of witnesses and the accused are valid evidence, especially if they are found Trustworthy and Truthful and in the past, swear that unto God!

The fact that people now lie and are untrustworthy, only adds to the validity of their given evidence, because they are trustworthy and truthful.

Regards Tony

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you are sharing or quoting evidence of someone who claims to have received it from God. Hearsay, which is not accepted as evidence.

It does not pass muster for a trial as evidence. It is strong enough "evidence" to justify an investigation by the police. But if other evidence cannot be found then the investigation is dropped and a person will not even be charged. Here we have hearsay evidence from someone. When we ask what other evidence exists the claimers often get offended that their hearsay is not enough.

 

[John53]

It never happens that way.

A Messenger is born into the world, is raised lives and works amongst the people they will give the initial Message to.

It is never compulsory, it is offered to all that want to hear.

The issue is, most do not want to hear, they do not want to change their material ways. They are comfortable, so they continue with the status quo, persecute the Messenger who wants the good of all people, so they can let the poor remain poor, let the rich become richer, let predudices remain, let men think they are better then women, etc etc.

Regards Tony

I'm more than willing to accept any God that has 30 seconds of its time to let me know it exists. Hearsay however is not acceptable to me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Then you would be saying that all evidence in most court cases is just hearsay.

The testimonials of witnesses and the accused are valid evidence, especially if they are found Trustworthy and Truthful and in the past, swear that unto God!

The fact that people now lie and are untrustworthy, only adds to the validity of their given evidence, because they are trustworthy and truthful.

Regards Tony

No, the testimony of witnesses to an actual event can be evidence for it. Eyewitness evidence is the weakest evidence allowed in a trial. Circumstantial evidence tends to be much stronger. Circumstantial evidence is evidence that is objective evidence. Evidence that is consistent no matter who looks at it. Eyewitness testimony is subjective and not much better than hearsay.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What free will does an abused child have?

Children can and do suffer from untrustworthy and untruthful, anamalistic people. The testimonials of the Messengers record what happens, if humanity does not submit to the counsels given of God. Generations of children can likewise become corrupted, yet many can still and do find the 'evidence of God' and find meaning in their lives despite the actions of the criminals.

My wife is such a beautiful soul.

Regards Tony

 

[John53]

Then you would be saying that all evidence in most court cases is just hearsay.

No I'm not. I didn't mention eye witnesses.

The testimonials of witnesses and the accused are valid evidence, especially if they are found Trustworthy and Truthful and in the past, swear that unto God!

Provide your witness for me to question. As to swearing to God... what a great help that is. If it's in court then usually one side or the other is lying.

The fact that people now lie and are untrustworthy, only adds to the validity of their given evidence, because they are trustworthy and truthful.

That reads to me like you're claiming someone is untrustworthy and trustworthy at the same time. I'm not sure who they are or what point you're trying to make. Possibly I'm reading it wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I would offer the OP has stated that.

Well, no. Most of the OP was not your own words.

The Person - What better evidence of a person's qualities and attributes is there but their person and their life.

That is the first line of evidence. Is that Person Trustworthy and Truthful?

Why would that be the first thing?

How trustworthy would a person need to be to establish that the impossible had happened?

Trustworthiness is about whether a person is lying or sincere, but a sincere person can be honestly mistaken.

Also, "trustworthiness" is a matter of human judgment. Anyone can be fooled, so any conclusion that relies on trustworthiness will always be tentative and uncertain.

Why wouldn't you start with empirical evidence? Is it just because your religion doesn't have a good foundation in empirical evidence?

 

[John53]

Children can and do suffer from untrustworthy and untruthful, anamalistic people. The testimonials of the Messengers record what happens, if humanity does not submit to the counsels given of God. Generations of children can likewise become corrupted, yet many can still and do find the 'evidence of God' and find meaning in their lives despite the actions of the criminals.

My wife is such a beautiful soul.

Regards Tony

You completely avoided the question which was.... What free will does an abused child have?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Evidence that is consistent no matter who looks at it. Eyewitness testimony is subjective and not much better than hearsay.

That is the evidence presented evidence that all.can look at. For Jesus it is the Bible. For Muhammd the Quran and for the Bab and Baha'u'llah, we have the entire selection of the Baha'i Writings.

Here is the evidence they gave.

Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

Now in that evidence it tells us what we must do to find peace and how to go about implementing peace. Also offered is what will happen when we reject that given advice and how to start the reconciliation process after the resulting wars and worldwide convulsions etc etc.

This evidence becomes the required standard we are to live by, that we will eventually choose to live by. The warnings will unfold into this reality. The evidence is actually a record of the future and becomes more accepted as time goes by and then it becomes a record of the past.

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The proof of God was given by Jesus his Revelation, sacrifice and Word that became the Christian Faith. Likewise for the Faith of Islam.

The person of Jesus and Muhammad, their Revelations and the Word they Gave became the accepted standard and Law for a great majority of Humanity.

What greater proof do you need?

These proofs stood the test of time, until these faiths started not to reflect the Word given by God.

Regards Tony

From where I sit, Christianity and Islam got to where they are because of violence and oppression, not because they're correct.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Is your evidence falsifiable?

It isn't even evidence.

 

[ChristineM]

It isn't even evidence.

I agree.