Evidence

[PoetPhilosopher]

Cool! So why can't someone believe in a god, for theirself, without being attacked?

They can, but expressing it in a debate forum can catch expressed scrutiny from the opposing sides. Since they're in a debate.

It'd be like driving your normal car into the middle of a Monster Truck ring, and asking, "Why do the others have to run into my car?"

 

[We Never Know]

They can, but expressing it in a debate forum can catch expressed scrutiny from the opposing sides. Since they're in a debate.

It'd be like driving your normal car into the middle of a Monster Truck ring, and asking, "Why do the others have to run into my car?"

Here's how I see it...
You can believe in a god or fifty.. Don't push it on me and I won't care.

You can own 100 guns and 5 tanks.. Don't use them against me and I won't care.

You can be gay, bi, trans, etc but don't expect me to be the same way and I won't care.

You can be whatever you want to be and believe in whatever you want to believe in and I won't care... Unless it interferes with my life.

 

[Valjean]

Is the winner or the loser ugly?

Well, you look very colorful, while Snow White is, well... a wolverine.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

It is up to the person as to what they see and accept... It is not up to you to tell them what you think they should see or accept because you disagree.

That's how I feel whenever I'm confronted by skeptics of the paranormal. I'll present my evidence, explain it to them if they ask, and tell them they can accept or reject what they've seen or heard. I don't try to persuade them to believe or argue with them about my evidence or personal paranormal experiences. As far as I'm concerned, they can decide for themselves whether or not to believe.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Here's how I see it...
You can believe in a god or fifty.. Don't push it on me and I won't care.

You can own 100 guns and 5 tanks.. Don't use them against me and I won't care.

You can be gay, bi, trans, etc but don't expect me to be the same way and I won't care.

You can be whatever you want to be and believe in whatever you want to believe in and I won't care... Unless it interferes with my life.

I disagree.

 

[We Never Know]

They're not being attacked, they're being debated. It's a debate forum. It's not a post something and everybody agrees forum.

I disagree. I can leave it at I disagree or..... Be a dick and say you are stupid, delusional, a myth believer, etc etc because I disagree.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your evidence is built on assumptions, not facts.

My evidence is the facts about Baha'u'llah, what He was like as a person and what He did in His life, as well as what He wrote. There are no assumptions.

You don't need to believe in Baha'u'llah if he actually lived. It's a fact he was a real person. We don' t believe in facts, we know facts are true.

I meant that I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Messenger of God because of the facts about Him and His mission.

Then Truth isn't factual. So using the word "Truth" is misleading.

The Truth about God isn't factual because NOTHING about God can ever be proven as a fact.

Who authenticated them? Does this mean they were actually written by Baha'u'llah, but not they they are true?

Baha'u'llah authenticated them when He stamped them with His official seal. It means we know for a fact that they were written by Baha'u'llah. Whether they are true or not is for you to decide.

Don't rule out that he could be mentally ill. No rational person believes what a person says just because they say so.

Of course no rational person believes what a person says just because they say so. I do not believe in Baha'u'llah because He claimed to be a Messenger of God, I believe because of the evidence that supports that claim.

I ruled out that He was mentally ill since there is no indication that He was mentally ill, thus no reason to think so.

On top of that these are rather fantastic claims, so they need extraordinary evidence. There is none, as you admit.

What is extraordinary evidence to one person is not extraordinary evidence to another person.
I never admitted that there is none. Baha'u'llah performed a lot of miracles, but why would you believe that unless you witnessed them firsthand?.

Your beliefs are not based on facts, that is why they are rejected.

My beliefs are based on facts about Baha'u'llah. They are rejected by atheists because those facts are not good enough evidence for them.

That isn't projection. I suggest even you dont understand why you believe, as above you claim to have valued facts for belief in your beliefs, but there aren't any relevant facts to suport the belief you have about the suvernatural bits.

You are correct that there are no facts that prove the supernatural bits, such as the Baha'u'llah received communication fro God. That can never be considered a fact since it can never be proven. It must be accepted on faith.

 

[We Never Know]

I disagree.

Perfect reply! You stated you disagree without attacking me for my thoughts or opinion.

 

[Valjean]

"I guess you missed the many times I noted their evidence is weak and a low standard"

To you but not to them. They differ from you.

But is good evidence subjective, or objective? I lean toward real evidence being pretty black or white.

"Why are you biased for them"

I am not biased for them. If they want to believe in a god, that's their choice and their life. Why should I be a dick and talk to them as if they are stupid ONLY because I don't have/share their view?

Good point. You should criticize not because they don't share your view, but because their evidence is faulty or interpretation illogical. Criticize the evidence or logic as false or irrational, not the interlocutor as stupid.

 

[John53]

I disagree. I can leave it at I disagree or..... Be a dick and say you are stupid, delusional, a myth believer, etc etc because I disagree.

Both sides are certainly guilty of infractions but that's the nature of debate. Fortunately for me I have no feelings and couldn't care less what someone says about me. If anyone takes it seriously then perhaps they're in the wrong place.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Here's how I see it...
You can believe in a god or fifty.. Don't push it on me and I won't care.

You can own 100 guns and 5 tanks.. Don't use them against me and I won't care.

You can be gay, bi, trans, etc but don't expect me to be the same way and I won't care.

You can be whatever you want to be and believe in whatever you want to believe in and I won't care... Unless it interferes with my life.

I try to live by the motto "live and let live," unless someone tries to force their religious beliefs down my throat. But I've had to unlearn more than 40 years of Christian indoctrination, so I don't always live up to the motto, but that's what I sincerely strive for in my life.

 

[Trailblazer]

Cool! So why can't someone believe in a god, for theirself, without being attacked?

Do you mean why can't they believe in God wihout being called gullible, devoid of critical thinking, unreasonable, irrational, and in need of emotional comfort?

 

[We Never Know]

That's how I feel whenever I'm confronted by skeptics of the paranormal. I'll present my evidence, explain it to them if they ask, and tell them they can accept or reject what they've seen or heard. I don't try to persuade them to believe or argue with them about my evidence or personal paranormal experiences. As far as I'm concerned, they can decide for themselves whether or not to believe.

Exactly!! I don't know if a god exist or if ghosts exist. There are people that believe in one or both.
Why should I attack them for what they believe in when I don't know.

To explain "I don't know" IMO if you aren't 100% completely sure, then you don't know, either way.

 

[We Never Know]

Do you mean why can't they believe in God wihout being called gullible, devoid of critical thinking, unreasonable, irrational, and in need of emotional comfort?

"gullible, devoid of critical thinking, unreasonable, irrational, and in need of emotional comfort"

And sometimes stupid, uneducated, etc.

Its all attacking in my opinio n

 

[Valjean]

Here's how I see it...
You can believe in a god or fifty.. Don't push it on me and I won't care.

You can own 100 guns and 5 tanks.. Don't use them against me and I won't care.

You can be gay, bi, trans, etc but don't expect me to be the same way and I won't care.

You can be whatever you want to be and believe in whatever you want to believe in and I won't care... Unless it interferes with my life.

All well and good, but in a debate forum a side must be taken; a judgement made.

 

[We Never Know]

All well and good, but in a debate forum a side must be taken; a judgement made.

That judgement needs to be 100% sure.. If not its only opinion.

 

[We Never Know]

Do you mean why can't they believe in God wihout being called gullible, devoid of critical thinking, unreasonable, irrational, and in need of emotional comfort?

Yes.

 

[John53]

"gullible, devoid of critical thinking, unreasonable, irrational, and in need of emotional comfort"

And sometimes stupid, uneducated, etc.

Its all attacking in my opinio n

All atheists are liars, immoral, don't know whate evidence is, hate God. What's the difference?

 

[We Never Know]

All atheists are liars, immoral, don't know whate evidence is, hate God. What's the difference?

You spelled "humans" wrong

 

[Valjean]

Exactly!! I don't know if a god exist or if ghosts exist. There are people that believe in one or both.
Why should I attack them for what they believe in when I don't know.

To help them clarify their arguments or discover faults in their reasoning.

I assume someone proffering an argument or opinion is interested in the truth of their opinion. Fault-finding assists them in this. Failure to criticize an argument is dismissive and an insult to the arguer.