Evidences given for a young-earth

[PruePhillip]

Demonstrate this to be valid.

No, by definition, if you are say, "meant" to be somewhere - there will be a reason
for you being there. But if you wind up somewhere by accident then there will be no
reason.
It's up to the person claiming there's a reason to demonstrate what that reason is.
Personally I do believe we are here for a reason, as defined by the bible. But if there's
no God then I don't see there's a reason for being here.

 

[PruePhillip]

Protestants are bigger drunks than atheists.
Shocking.
Of course, since these are self-reported answers, I would be suspicious of the religious claiming not to drink - in my experience, they tend to over-state or under-state things in order to shine a positive light on their religion.

Not sure of the relevance of Catholic vs Protestant.

 

[PruePhillip]

Protestants are bigger drunks than atheists.
Shocking.
Of course, since these are self-reported answers, I would be suspicious of the religious claiming not to drink - in my experience, they tend to over-state or under-state things in order to shine a positive light on their religion.

Not sure of the relevance of Catholic vs Protestant.

 

[sooda]

Protestants are bigger drunks than atheists.

Shocking.

Of course, since these are self-reported answers, I would be suspicious of the religious claiming not to drink - in my experience, they tend to over-state or under-state things in order to shine a positive light on their religion.

What a lot of nonsense.

 

[sooda]

Not sure of the relevance of Catholic vs Protestant.

Its ridiculous.. Alcoholism is a disease that doesn't discriminate.

 

[tas8831]

What a lot of nonsense.

What's that?

 

[SkepticThinker]

No, not lying. Just a bit disappointed. I thought Dawkins might drill down through
claims in the bible - but alas, he admitted he hadn't really read most of the bible.
Someone on this forum recently went into some depth about Noah and the flood
and my claim the "earth" was a local concept. Good argument was given that I
am wrong - and I appreciated that. Hitchens gave a much better arguments than
Dawkins - would have been better to read HIS book, had Hitchens written one.

I am fine with Darwin's "Origin." Suspicious of Hawkins. But Dawkins is a just a
tad embarrassing. It's not a matter of not understanding Dawkins - he's easy to
get your head around because his arguments are not sophisticated, and in any
case, they are borrowed arguments and he has NO ORIGINAL ARGUMENTS.

I'm wondering why you'd expect Dawkins to address the Bible in a book about evolution.

 

[SkepticThinker]

If you are here by accident then your life doesn't have innate meaning.
Your life is like the random shuffling of letters in alphabet soup - you
might think the soup is speaking to you, should you prefer, otherwise
everything is just accident.
Inventing meaning for yourself just underscores there's no meaning
"out there."

Either God made us, in which case there's purpose, or the universe
stumbled into existence and soon - vanish again without meaning.

I have a different take on that.

If I'm here "by accident" then that means I am incredibly lucky to be alive and I should value every second I get to spend living in this amazing universe.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Think about this: Humans (as far as we know) are the only creatures on earth that look at the night sky and say 'Wow!'

I have heard the notion that, through humans, the universe can look at itself.

 

[gnostic]

No, by definition, if you are say, "meant" to be somewhere - there will be a reason
for you being there. But if you wind up somewhere by accident then there will be no
reason.
It's up to the person claiming there's a reason to demonstrate what that reason is.
Personally I do believe we are here for a reason, as defined by the bible. But if there's
no God then I don't see there's a reason for being here.

What a typically stupid creationist thing to say.

Why should the reason we be here, be about Bible and about Christian god?

I mean I admire Jesus, but I don’t admire this misogynistic patriarchal, tyrannical, racist and murderous wannabe deity.

I don’t believe in the Flood, and yet it is claim that he cause the Flood to kill everyone including women and children.

Through his prophets, eg Joshua and Samuel, god ordered genocides, eg Jericho and the Amalekites, not only to kill women and children, babies weren’t spared.

If god is really the one giving the order for genocides, then how God any better than Herod regarding to Bethlehem?

I cannot worship such a murderous and oppressive god, let alone wanting to be the centre of my world.

 

[PruePhillip]

What a typically stupid creationist thing to say.

Why should the reason we be here, be about Bible and about Christian god?

I mean I admire Jesus, but I don’t admire this misogynistic patriarchal, tyrannical, racist and murderous wannabe deity.

I don’t believe in the Flood, and yet it is claim that he cause the Flood to kill everyone including women and children.

Through his prophets, eg Joshua and Samuel, god ordered genocides, eg Jericho and the Amalekites, not only to kill women and children, babies weren’t spared.

If god is really the one giving the order for genocides, then how God any better than Herod regarding to Bethlehem?

I cannot worship such a murderous and oppressive god, let alone wanting to be the centre of my world.

You don't have to "believe" in the flood. But you do have to believe in the fate of the Jews
when they "knew not the time of their visitation" relating to the Messiah and the loss of their
nation - exiled, enslaved or murdered for nearly two thousand years. Jesus said that when
the "Gentiles time is fulfilled" that the Jews will be allowed home. I take that as meaning the
sorrow of the Jew could tomorrow be the sorrow of the Gentile. So far that's plainly history.
God is a God of love, but it also says God is a God of war and vengeance.

 

[PruePhillip]

I have a different take on that.

If I'm here "by accident" then that means I am incredibly lucky to be alive and I should value every second I get to spend living in this amazing universe.

And that amazing brain of yours ought to consider how an accident created that brain,
without any reason whatsoever. And not just the brain, but an accident created time,
space, energy and physical laws. From utter nothing.

 

[PruePhillip]

I'm wondering why you'd expect Dawkins to address the Bible in a book about evolution.

If this is The God Delusion then Dawkins goes into evolution - as if the bible opposed the idea.
If you refer to the Selfish Gene then Dawkins is giving some half wacked reason why you are
here - to serve your genes.

But to his Western Judeo Christian audience, Dawkins ought to have at least tried to tackle
the bible.

 

[Polymath257]

And that amazing brain of yours ought to consider how an accident created that brain,
without any reason whatsoever. And not just the brain, but an accident created time,
space, energy and physical laws. From utter nothing.

Be precise what you mean by the word 'accident'. For me, the word itself implies there is an active agent that wants some goal, but the result is something else. That isn't how I see the universe working.

I think the brain formed according to the laws of physics and chemistry through a process of evolution. We have plenty of evidence of this process, including stages through many different species.

As for time, space, energy, and the laws themselves, I don't see them as having been 'created'. My view is that whenever there was time, all the rest of these existed. But the best way to look at it isn't a 3 dimensional space and a 1 dimensional time, but as a 4 dimensional spacetime that simply exists.

 

[Wandering Monk]

534 post and STILL no evidence offered for a young earth.

 

[tas8831]

No, by definition, if you are say, "meant" to be somewhere - there will be a reason
for you being there. But if you wind up somewhere by accident then there will be no
reason.
It's up to the person claiming there's a reason to demonstrate what that reason is.
Personally I do believe we are here for a reason, as defined by the bible. But if there's
no God then I don't see there's a reason for being here.

So you are just another creationist that makes claims that you cannot support.

Grand....

 

[PruePhillip]

So you are just another creationist that makes claims that you cannot support.

Grand....

I can support my claim - either with science or history/archaeology as to the claims
of the bible. Of course, I cannot prove nor disprove the existence of God.

 

[PruePhillip]

Be precise what you mean by the word 'accident'. For me, the word itself implies there is an active agent that wants some goal, but the result is something else. That isn't how I see the universe working.

I think the brain formed according to the laws of physics and chemistry through a process of evolution. We have plenty of evidence of this process, including stages through many different species.

As for time, space, energy, and the laws themselves, I don't see them as having been 'created'. My view is that whenever there was time, all the rest of these existed. But the best way to look at it isn't a 3 dimensional space and a 1 dimensional time, but as a 4 dimensional spacetime that simply exists.

Things don't "simply exist" anymore than life spontaneously forms on decayed meat.
Science tells us there is a reason for each and every event in the universe. Only thing
is, this doesn't explain how the first event happened.
As for the brain and evolution - sure, at least for animals. But I have been watching
some of the videos of the neurologist and clinical psychologist Peter Fenwick. He
speaks of people's "experiences" during total flat-line EEG brain death. And a lot of
even stranger things. And just read a good book on the strange world of twins - you
can't help but feel the universe is far stranger than we can imagine.

 

[Polymath257]

Things don't "simply exist" anymore than life spontaneously forms on decayed meat.
Science tells us there is a reason for each and every event in the universe. Only thing
is, this doesn't explain how the first event happened.
As for the brain and evolution - sure, at least for animals. But I have been watching
some of the videos of the neurologist and clinical psychologist Peter Fenwick. He
speaks of people's "experiences" during total flat-line EEG brain death. And a lot of
even stranger things. And just read a good book on the strange world of twins - you
can't help but feel the universe is far stranger than we can imagine.

Correction: things *inside the universe* don't 'simply exist'. But when talking about the start of time, our notions of causality start to break down: causality requires time. And that means that causality only makes sense within the universe. So the universe itself (all of space and time) *cannot* be caused.

And, when you talk about a 'first even', you are assuming there *was* a first event. Remember the BB is NOT an event (no spacetime coordinates). Once again, causality only makes sense *within* the universe, where there is time.

 

[tas8831]

I can support my claim - either with science or history/archaeology as to the claims of the bible.

And yet... weird - you did not even make an attempt to do so.

Of course, I cannot prove nor disprove the existence of God.

I did not ask you to, and I cannot either.

I can, on the other hand, observe that evidence that should be available for the acts of your God are not to be found.
For example - you claim your house burned down.
I drive by your house, and there is stands, untouched by flame.
What should I conclude?


But back to your inability to support your claims despite claiming you can - let us look at the flow of exchanges:

In response to your claim of:

"If you are here by accident then your life doesn't have innate meaning."​

I had requested:

"Demonstrate this to be valid."​

You replied:

No, by definition, if you are say, "meant" to be somewhere - there will be a reason
for you being there. But if you wind up somewhere by accident then there will be no
reason.
It's up to the person claiming there's a reason to demonstrate what that reason is.
Personally I do believe we are here for a reason, as defined by the bible. But if there's
no God then I don't see there's a reason for being here.​

In other words, you cannot demonstrate your claim has merit. Typical.