Evil

[Jos]

No, you won't. What you will find is a solid set of arguments for the supernatural resurrection of Jesus Christ. Once those 12 historical facts are researched - which they have been - then there's no other logical conclusion for what happened except the resurrection.

All the arguments ultimately amount to a bunch of claims and then it takes a leap of faith to get the conclusion that He was divine.

 

[Spartan]

All the arguments ultimately amount to a bunch of claims and then it takes a leap of faith to get the conclusion that He was divine.

So you're not going to study the historical evidences for his life?

 

[Jos]

So you're not going to study the historical evidences for his life?

I already accept that Jesus existed, what I struggle to accept though are the miraculous claims that are attributed to Him, which are unfalsifiable BTW and don't prove His divinity since even Satan, according to your theology has supernatural powers also... so miracles don't necessarily prove that He was a good guy or that He was divine.

 

[Spartan]

I already that Jesus existed, what I struggle to accept though are the miraculous claims that are attributed to Him, which are unfalsifiable BTW and don't prove His divinity since even Satan, according to your theology has supernatural powers also... so miracles don't necessarily prove that He was a good guy or that He was divine.

Jesus has been healing people for ages. There's healing services all over America. There's testimonies all over the web. Perhaps you could take a tour of those services and document what you find. Sure, some might be baloney but there's the real thing out there too. I've seen them, and I'm well studied in the field of pseudoscience and the paranormal. I've seen people healed. You might even investigate this guy - Smith Wigglesworth - from England. There were a number of his deacons and elders who testified in other churches in the decades following his death, about his miracle healings in the name of Jesus. Just Google "Smith Wigglesworth". I spent several years investigating him and found him to be very credible. The more you study instead of just denying will bring you to the truth.

 

[ManSinha]

Jesus has been healing people for ages. There's healing services all over America. There's testimonies all over the web. Perhaps you could take a tour of those services and document what you find. Sure, some might be baloney but there's the real thing out there too. I've seen them, and I'm well studied in the field of pseudoscience and the paranormal. I've seen people healed. You might even investigate this guy - Smith Wigglesworth - from England. There were a number of his deacons and elders who testified in other churches in the decades following his death, about his miracle healings in the name of Jesus. Just Google "Smith Wigglesworth". I spent several years investigating him and found him to be very credible. The more you study instead of just denying will bring you to the truth.

Miracle healings are just that - spontaneous remissions of otherwise progressive illness

They are well documented to occur among other individuals as well - people who worship other deities as well as those that don't worship any at all - in my career I have seen a smattering of these. It does not mean anything from a scientific perspective. It is back to belief and not proof / conclusion of any supernatural power being involved.

I can give you one regional example - there are many temples in India with large followings of faithful - you can easily find among them people who will sincerely tell you - from their perspective the truth - that the god they worship healed their illness. So it is not an exclusive proof of Jesus or any one deity.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I wonder what is worse, evil or a-morality.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Evil can be in the words, actions or thoughts toward one self or others. All evil leads to suffering, all good lead to compassion and love for everything around us.

When we remove the evil from our mind we will understand it was what made us suffer

It was your own suffering that made you suffer. If you end suffering there is no more evil aswell, but if you just end evil there is still pain in the world.

 

[Jos]

Jesus has been healing people for ages. There's healing services all over America. There's testimonies all over the web. Perhaps you could take a tour of those services and document what you find. Sure, some might be baloney but there's the real thing out there too. I've seen them, and I'm well studied in the field of pseudoscience and the paranormal. I've seen people healed. You might even investigate this guy - Smith Wigglesworth - from England. There were a number of his deacons and elders who testified in other churches in the decades following his death, about his miracle healings in the name of Jesus. Just Google "Smith Wigglesworth". I spent several years investigating him and found him to be very credible. The more you study instead of just denying will bring you to the truth.

You still don't get it... even if Jesus did heal people, that still doesn't prove He's divine or a good guy since, as I stated earlier, Satan, according to your theology, supposedly has supernatural powers himself... so Jesus supposedly healing people doesn't really prove much.

 

[Spartan]

You still don't get it... even if Jesus did heal people, that still doesn't prove He's divine or a good guy since, as I stated earlier, Satan, according to your theology, supposedly has supernatural powers himself... so Jesus supposedly healing people doesn't really prove much.

Whatever...

 

[Spartan]

Miracle healings are just that - spontaneous remissions of otherwise progressive illness

You don't have a dozen sudden spontaneous healings in one healing service. They can happen on occasion, but not a swarm of them in 30 minutes.

 

[ManSinha]

You don't have a dozen sudden spontaneous healings in one healing service. They can happen on occasion, but not a swarm of them in 30 minutes.

Let me tell you a little story to illustrate my feelings about your post -

A guy asks a girl to sleep with him once for a million bucks
She agrees
Then he asks if she would do it for 250000
Her response: What sort of woman do you think I am?
His rejoinder - We already established what sort of woman you are - now we are just negotiating the price

 

[Spartan]

Let me tell you a little story to illustrate my feelings about your post -

A guy asks a girl to sleep with him once for a million bucks
She agrees
Then he asks if she would do it for 250000
Her response: What sort of woman do you think I am?
His rejoinder - We already established what sort of woman you are - now we are just negotiating the price

I heard that back in the 60's, and it was old even then. Antiquated. That's how that is viewed.

 

[sooda]

You don't have a dozen sudden spontaneous healings in one healing service. They can happen on occasion, but not a swarm of them in 30 minutes.

Sounds like a con job to me.

 

[Spartan]

Sounds like a con job to me.

That's right - claiming dozens of suddenly healed individuals are all the product of spontaneous healing is a con job.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Hi Jos,

hI jOS,

RESOLUTION said: ↑
Why would God need to do evil?

JOS said:
So God can't choose to do evil? Evil isn't even an option for Him?

I asked you a quesion... Why would God need to do evil?

Your reply does not answer is nothing to do with what I said. Do you have a learning disability I should know about?
I do not know where you go that answer and information from it certainly did not come from my question.
So if you cannot answer the question then there is no point in us talking at cross purposes. I am not wasting my time replying
if you do not address the actual contents. So I ask again.
WHY would God NEED to do Evil?

RESOLUTION said: ↑
As for his character the bible itself suggests God has prefect knowledge and perfect judgment so he can judge rightly all things.
The only problem with humans is seeing God as human.
You see Gods character has no flaws but God isn't a character he is a Spirit and he is perfect in knowledge of right and wrong.
We cannot escape the fact that right and wrong or Good and Evil exist. If someone walked into your home with a gun and was
about to kill your family would you kill them first if you had a gun?

Jos said:
If God is a subject and He or His nature or whatever determines what's moral then morality would still be subjective.

Again you avoid the issues because you lack knowledge about any God/s you claim not to believe in. Take the bible for instance it reveals
what I have written about the God called YHWH. Yet your answer is made in ignorance. You have to know the nature and morality to debate
it and you certainly show no knowledge of a God you are making false judgments about. God is subjective to nothing and no one when it comes to
man and his knowledge a knowledge you sadly lack as shown by your answers. You either debate what is written or you leave the debate.

RESOLUTION said: ↑
Unlike us, God tells the end from the beginning. He sees all things and a thousand years is like a day to him.
How do you judge the person called God, the perfect person by human standards?

Christians do all the time when they judge Him as being good.

There is no judgment and you still have not explained why you an athiest NOT A CHRISTIAN judge a God you know absolutely NOTHING about?
No Christian judges God as being good. The bible tells the world God is good. You need to desist from showing your ignorance on the subject
and get some actual arguments. What you write shows you lack the understanding and knowledge of what you are answering too.
Have you never debated the actual truth with Christians before. You need to brush up on the subject you blindly try to debate.

RESOLUTION said: ↑
Belief in God is not about the world or the moral standards as these are nothing to do with the relationship a person has with God.
The World is corrupt and has been since the fall but humans like yourself can always choose what they want to do. WORLDVIEW... how would you
summarise this?

You're the one who originally brought up morality now you want to switch to talking about worldviews... anyways,
these are all just assertions with nothing backing them up and history and science don't support your claim that the world was perfect
and then fell.
#153Jos, Yesterday at 6:39 AM

JOS said:
So according to your worldview, assuming your a Christian, yes there is such a thing as moral perfection ie.
God and He always does the right thing. Don't you affirm that God's nature is the perfect, objective standard for morality
and that it doesn't matter whether humans agree or
# disagree on morality since God's perfect standard is what matters?

You motto is clearly when you cannot reply:- try to bluff your way out. Your post which I answered shows you brought the issue
world view and morality up at this point in the debate.. However it also shows yet again you ignore what was said and produce your own garbled
and unfounded reply which shows again you know nothing about the Christian perspective or the actual bible teachings about God.

You don't want to debate or discuss. You have no knowledge of a Christians beliefs or God and the bible.
So one must question your reasons for posting on the subject. All you appear to do is cast unfounded and untrue remarks about Christians
and the God of the Bible. In doing so you show you know nothing about the subject at hand. I respectfully suggest you come back when you do.

 

[Jos]

Why would God need to do evil?

I guess a God wouldn't need to do evil if He's all good but I don't get why you're being so aggressive with me and accusing me of having a learning disability, like what the heck, why you so mad bro? But all in all, I'm just asking questions and you won't even allow me to do that. Fine I'll answer your questions but will you also answer mine. As I just said, I guess an all-good God wouldn't need to do evil but the issue I was really getting to was if God even had a choice in having a good nature as opposed to an evil one. Regardless of if He didn't want or didn't need to do evil, can God do commit an act of evil if He so desired to do so?

Again you avoid the issues because you lack knowledge about any God/s you claim not to believe in. Take the bible for instance it reveals
what I have written about the God called YHWH. Yet your answer is made in ignorance. You have to know the nature and morality to debate
it and you certainly show no knowledge of a God you are making false judgments about. God is subjective to nothing and no one when it comes to
man and his knowledge a knowledge you sadly lack as shown by your answers. You either debate what is written or you leave the debate.

So enlighten me, how does God relate to morality? I never said God was subject to anyone. I said that He Himself is a subject. There's a big difference... it doesn't mean that He's under anyone's command or control.

There is no judgment and you still have not explained why you an athiest NOT A CHRISTIAN judge a God you know absolutely NOTHING about?
No Christian judges God as being good. The bible tells the world God is good. You need to desist from showing your ignorance on the subject
and get some actual arguments. What you write shows you lack the understanding and knowledge of what you are answering too.
Have you never debated the actual truth with Christians before. You need to brush up on the subject you blindly try to debate.

So you're saying you can't judge God since it's impossible for any human to do so? What I'm getting at is, you believe God is good because the Bible says so or maybe you might even say your own personal experience of Him but even then you still can't tell if He isn't actually evil but pretends to be good. What you have as evidence of His goodness is what the Bible says.

You don't want to debate or discuss. You have no knowledge of a Christians beliefs or God and the bible.
So one must question your reasons for posting on the subject. All you appear to do is cast unfounded and untrue remarks about Christians
and the God of the Bible. In doing so you show you know nothing about the subject at hand. I respectfully suggest you come back when you do.

Ok I apologize for accusing of something you didn't do. What happened is that you asked me to explain what morally perfect is, which surprised me since I assumed that a Christian would believe that God is the standard of moral perfection and then you said that people believe different things about morality and that Adam and Eve weren't morally perfect and that different people believe differently about what moral perfection means but my post had nothing to do with these issues. I don't believe Adam and Eve were morally perfect and also if God is morally perfect which many Christians define Him as being then, He would always make the right decisions... when I was speaking of moral perfection I was speaking of God being morally perfect not what humans would subjectively define as morally perfect, so I don't know why you brought up humans when I was referring to God and you also said that you don't see why morality makes you make the right decisions but I didn't say that, I never said that morality by itself but one can always make the right decisions if one is morally perfect. Don't you as a Christian believe that there is such a thing as moral perfection?

 

[Jos]

Whatever...

You might see it as being ultra/irrationally skeptical but it's a fair point, Jesus Himself might not actually be good but could actually be evil. It is a possibility.

 

[Spartan]

You might see it as being ultra/irrationally skeptical but it's a fair point, Jesus Himself might not actually be good but could actually be evil. It is a possibility.

Of course those with subjective morality would be the confused ones about that.

 

[Jos]

Of course those with subjective morality would be the confused ones about that.

Not necessarily, maybe but still, I don't think we can know for sure who's truly good or who's truly evil.

 

[Milton Platt]

It's not much of a calamity when the result is a person winding up in heaven because they repented and received Christ, instead of winding up in hell. That's a blessing in disguise.

I will then leave it to you to demonstrate that every person who has ever experienced a calamity has ended up in Heaven......