Evolution and Creationism: because ...

[Shad]

Creationists generally mind their own business, and most are hard working, tax paying citizens, who find a government demanding their children to attend public school that teaches them belief in a Creator God is stupid, ignorant or delusional.

These parents follow an ideology which has no merit outside of their religion than complain when their children are taught contradictory facts in school. If they have a problem they can home-school. Public education is for everyone not to support your favour of religion.

Yet still they don't fight the issue, but instead homeschool.

That's why IDers and other creationists are attempting to promote their views in public school via laymen on school boards...... Right...

Why do you feel the need to push your views on others?

I only support proper education in public schools. Ideas which have evidence in support outside religious texts and circular reasoning you happen to follow. Teach your child about your religious beliefs at church or in private and leave science class to teach actual science. I challenge your views on the basis of lack of evidence. Hence why evolution is taught not only at the public k-12 systems but post-secondary institutions and not creationism. Views with no merit should not be taught to the general population. Retard your children's education on your own time so that it does not effect those children that are not part of or followers of your religious belief.

 

[Brian Schuh]

These parents follow an ideology which has no merit outside of their religion than complain when their children are taught contradictory facts in school. If they have a problem they can home-school. Public education is for everyone not to support your favour of religion.




That's why IDers and other creationists are attempting to promote their views in public school via laymen on school boards...... Right...



I only support proper education in public schools. Ideas which have evidence in support outside religious texts and circular reasoning you happen to follow. Teach your child about your religious beliefs at church or in private and leave science class to teach actual science. I challenge your views on the basis of lack of evidence. Hence why evolution is taught not only at the public k-12 systems but post-secondary institutions and not creationism. Views with no merit should not be taught to the general population. Retard your children's education on your own time so that it does not effect those children that are not part of or followers of your religious belief.

What does it matter? Why is evolution part of the required curriculum? Why are your religious beliefs required learning for other people's children? O, so you don't like me calling evolution a religious belief? Well it is, it meets all the criteria of a religious belief, no matter how much evidence.

 

[Brian Schuh]

It matters since people are attempting to inject their religious belief into a science class.



Since it provide a basis for a number of study and career paths in post-secondary institutions. The same reason why algebra, chemistry and physic are taught.



Evolution isn't a religious belief.



It only displays how shallow your education is.



No it doesn't since a religion is based on faith while evolution is based on evidence. It involves no gods, no spirituality, no faith is required, it does not go beyond nature nor methodology naturalism. Your claim is fallacious since you are treating beliefs as if each follows the same methods. Religious belief has different methods thus is nothing like the methods used in science. You made a basic equivocation fallacy based on your shallow education.

Same thing, no matter how many times you call your opposition stupid, ignorant or delusional, it doesn't help your case. No one denies any evidence. Sure life evolves, it has been observed. But what relevance does that have to my claim that a God created the universe 5776 years ago. You haven't showed me any evidence yet. So show me the evidence.

 

[Brian Schuh]

It does make my case about you since you are providing the very information for the conclusion I have made. You do not understand what a religion is. You do not understand what science is. You conflate the two based on your ignorance.

I made a conclusion about you that is insulting to you, nothing more. You can correct this if you are willing to learn something about the topics you bring up.




You have done so repeatedly in this thread. You ramble on about carbon dating without even knowing what it is. You talk about carbon dating rocks yet are oblivious that it dates organics. This supports my conclusion above.



Since you agree in part with a theory that accepts the universe are vastly old based on evidence but hold to your claim you have denied evidence against your views. Nothing more.



I told you exactly where to learn about the evidence. If you are unwilling to do so that is not my problem, it is yours. It only shows that you enjoy your shallow education and refuse to educate yourself. As per your blunders in this thread. You can start here :http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/home.php Read it then start using the reference to learn more. The rest is up to you. I can not force you to read which you do not want to nor can I force you to learn something you have no interest in.

Right, my failure to accept your views is my problem, same for children, if they have to be homeschooled, that is their problem. It is typical that if I don't agree with an evolutionist, then I must be ignorant or even worse. Much like if I don't accept Jesus, a Christian believes I'm going to hell.

I whole heartedly accept the evolutionary that has been observed. But you haven't provided evidence on why we don't have a young earth.

About carbon dating, I admit I am not a physicist, but you can't pull the wool over my eyes. An idiot can see carbon dating is nonsense.

As it isn't your job to teach me anything, don't bother reply.

As for anyone else, just show me some evidence.

 

[Parsimony]

Of course many claims aren't scientific. Does a claim have to be a scientific claim to be a legitimate claim? Do you believe Science has a monopoly on Truth? Or do you believe the scientific method is the only method to derive truth? Philosophy has determined at least 5 methods to find truth, at least.

It's not the only way to know the truth, but it is a very good one.

But I'll give you that one, my Creator God isn't a trickster.

Then there is no reason to presume that God tweaked isotope ratios in the Earth or the light from distant stars to make the Earth and Universe appear older than they really are, as doing so would indeed be a trick.

 

[Sapiens]

Creationists generally mind their own business, and most are hard working, tax paying citizens, who find a government demanding their children to attend public school that teaches them belief in a Creator God is stupid, ignorant or delusional. Yet still they don't fight the issue, but instead homeschool. Why do you feel the need to push your views on others?

Blatantly false! It was creationists, who were trying to mind other people's business, trying to subvert, in the face of the Constitution and law the public education system into being a lackey of evangelical Christians. THEY FAILED! The public schools do not teach that belief in a Creator God is stupid, ignorant or delusional, Creator Gods have no place, pro or con, in a science classroom. Creationist fight the issue tooth and nail, if all they did was homeschool we'd not be having all the wasteful trials that they keep losing.

What does it matter? Why is evolution part of the required curriculum? Why are your religious beliefs required learning for other people's children? O, so you don't like me calling evolution a religious belief? Well it is, it meets all the criteria of a religious belief, no matter how much evidence.

Because, "nothing in Biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky

If you want to call evolution a religious belief, go right ahead, advancing that view does way more harm to your position that to mine, especially since, despite your claim, you can not actually show that evolution meets the criteria of a religious belief.

Same thing, no matter how many times you call your opposition stupid, ignorant or delusional, it doesn't help your case. No one denies any evidence. Sure life evolves, it has been observed. But what relevance does that have to my claim that a God created the universe 5776 years ago. You haven't showed me any evidence yet. So show me the evidence.

No need to trouble to call you anything, the lack of quality and consistency in your arguments says it all. Your blunder leads to blasphemy, e.g., your Creator is accused of systematic deceitfulness. You have been provided with evidence, yet you prefer to blaspheme your God as a purveyor of systematic deceitfulness.

About carbon dating, I admit I am not a physicist, but you can't pull the wool over my eyes. An idiot can see carbon dating is nonsense.

I know that carbon dating is a valuable too ... yet now you call me an idiot? That is an accusation that you will have some trouble supporting.

As it isn't your job to teach me anything, don't bother reply.

As for anyone else, just show me some evidence.

It's not a job , it's a hobby, if you don't like it, you should stay off debate forums, where you, by your presence you invite me to do so.

I have provided you with evidence, as pointed out above.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Blatantly false! It was creationists, who were trying to mind other people's business, trying to subvert, in the face of the Constitution and law the public education system into being a lackey of evangelical Christians. THEY FAILED! The public schools do not teach that belief in a Creator God is stupid, ignorant or delusional, Creator Gods have no place, pro or con, in a science classroom. Creationist fight the issue tooth and nail, if all they did was homeschool we'd not be having all the wasteful trials that they keep losing.



Because, "nothing in Biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky

If you want to call evolution a religious belief, go right ahead, advancing that view does way more harm to your position that to mine, especially since, despite your claim, you can not actually show that evolution meets the criteria of a religious belief.
No need to trouble to call you anything, the lack of quality and consistency in your arguments says it all. Your blunder leads to blasphemy, e.g., your Creator is accused of systematic deceitfulness. You have been provided with evidence, yet you prefer to blaspheme your God as a purveyor of systematic deceitfulness.
I know that carbon dating is a valuable too ... yet now you call me an idiot? That is an accusation that you will have some trouble supporting.

It's not a job , it's a hobby, if you don't like it, you should stay off debate forums, where you, by your presence you invite me to do so.

I have provided you with evidence, as pointed out above.

How many times must I say that I believe in evolution, before you realize that I believe in evolution? But I also believe in a Creator and a young earth. Most creationists had nothing to do with the legal battles about the schools, so what you said is blatantly false. I didn't call you an idiot, I implied that you are trying to pull the wool over my eyes.

 

[Brian Schuh]

Blatantly false! It was creationists, who were trying to mind other people's business, trying to subvert, in the face of the Constitution and law the public education system into being a lackey of evangelical Christians. THEY FAILED! The public schools do not teach that belief in a Creator God is stupid, ignorant or delusional, Creator Gods have no place, pro or con, in a science classroom. Creationist fight the issue tooth and nail, if all they did was homeschool we'd not be having all the wasteful trials that they keep losing.



Because, "nothing in Biology makes sense except in the light of evolution" - Theodosius Dobzhansky

If you want to call evolution a religious belief, go right ahead, advancing that view does way more harm to your position that to mine, especially since, despite your claim, you can not actually show that evolution meets the criteria of a religious belief.
No need to trouble to call you anything, the lack of quality and consistency in your arguments says it all. Your blunder leads to blasphemy, e.g., your Creator is accused of systematic deceitfulness. You have been provided with evidence, yet you prefer to blaspheme your God as a purveyor of systematic deceitfulness.
I know that carbon dating is a valuable too ... yet now you call me an idiot? That is an accusation that you will have some trouble supporting.

It's not a job , it's a hobby, if you don't like it, you should stay off debate forums, where you, by your presence you invite me to do so.

I have provided you with evidence, as pointed out above.

Tell me, what evidence have you provided? One gene alleged to be mutated? And somehow that proves there is no Creator? Or that we don't have a young earth? Tell me, what evidence have you provided?

 

[McBell]

Creationists just wanted their children to learn about their Creator God and asked that Intelligent Design be taught in schools, and all it is, is how it is plausible and to point out the gaping holes in the theory of evolution. Many students graduating high schools falsely believe evolution is a fact. They don't understand it is a theory, and just a theory, not something which has been observed in its entirety. This is robbing children of their parent's Creator. And the sad thing is that creationism has a lot to say when it's criticising evolution. Evolutuonalists seem afraid to address the critisims of creationists in a fair fight, but always get back to "the Bible is false, if you believe it you are ignorant or stupid, maybe even delusional."

Bull ****.
Creationists took their "case" to court thinking they could force their religious beliefs into science classrooms as an "alternative" to science.
The courts basically ruled that religion has no business in a science classroom and that if the parents want their children to learn their religious beliefs it is on the parents, not the schools, to teach them.

You whine about this supposed lack of a "fair fight" when the truth of the matter is that creation is not science.

Though I do have to say that your sad attempt at playing the martyr is most comical.

 

[McBell]

What does it matter? Why is evolution part of the required curriculum? Why are your religious beliefs required learning for other people's children? O, so you don't like me calling evolution a religious belief? Well it is, it meets all the criteria of a religious belief, no matter how much evidence.

Still waiting for creationism to lift itself up to the same level, by the same standards, as evolution.
Do you think creationists will ever get around to that or do you believe they know they can't and that is why they play to the ignorance of the choir by attacking evolution?

 

[McBell]

Tell me, what evidence have you provided? One gene alleged to be mutated? And somehow that proves there is no Creator? Or that we don't have a young earth? Tell me, what evidence have you provided?

It would help if you were to stop trying so hard to be some kind of victim.
I understand that the victim tactic works wonders with your choir, but to those outside your choir it simply makes you look like a drama queen.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Creationists just wanted their children to learn about their Creator God and asked that Intelligent Design be taught in schools, and all it is, is how it is plausible and to point out the gaping holes in the theory of evolution. Many students graduating high schools falsely believe evolution is a fact. They don't understand it is a theory, and just a theory, not something which has been observed in its entirety. This is robbing children of their parent's Creator. And the sad thing is that creationism has a lot to say when it's criticising evolution. Evolutuonalists seem afraid to address the critisims of creationists in a fair fight, but always get back to "the Bible is false, if you believe it you are ignorant or stupid, maybe even delusional."

How about reaching creationism at church or at home, where it belongs.

Let's teach science in science classrooms, where it belongs.

You should take a closer look around this forum if you think "evolutionists" are afraid to address creationist criticisms. I think you will find that you are wrong.

Evolution is a fact, and a scientific theory. I know this has already been pointed out.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The pope placed the moment of Creation at the Big Bang, I place it 5776 years ago, and also showed that it could have been yesterday at 3 PM. Why do y'all feel a need to believe that there is no Creator? And then push that on other people's children in the public schools like it is a fact?

I think the better question is, why does religion belong in a public school science classroom?
And, why should one single particular religion be forced on all schoolchildren?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Kind of like the Big Bang? No one observed it, not testable, just a myth. No less of a myth than a Creator God.

What do you think cosmic microwave background radiation is?

 

[Brian Schuh]

How about reaching creationism at church or at home, where it belongs.

Let's teach science in science classrooms, where it belongs.

You should take a closer look around this forum if you think "evolutionists" are afraid to address creationist criticisms. I think you will find that you are wrong.

Evolution is a fact, and a scientific theory. I know this has already been pointed out.

How many times do I have to say I believe evolution, before you realize I believe evolution! But evolution doesn't negate the historical fact God created the Earth 5776 years ago. Obviously, that isn't enough time for evolution to get much credit at all, and that is why believing in evolution as a process doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Stop insinuating that I don't believe in evolution. I'm saying it isn't relevant, considering there is only 5776 years of history.

 

[SkepticThinker]

5776 years is the Hebrew year count. The Talmud says only a fool would doubt the Hebrew year count. Some believe that there is a small line of people who have counted the years from the beginning. But count me a fool, because I doubt the Hebrew year count. But I'll say this, nobody has been able to prove it wrong yet.

Well, it does fly in the face of all existing evidence to date. So there's that.

 

[Brian Schuh]

It would help if you were to stop trying so hard to be some kind of victim.
I understand that the victim tactic works wonders with your choir, but to those outside your choir it simply makes you look like a drama queen.

Oh, so either y'all got tired of saying, "ignorant, stupid, deluded" or you saw it wasn't working and it isn't true, so now you say "victim" and drama queen. If you spent half the effort you use in calling creationists names, instead using that effort in just show me the evidence. Personal attacks on me doesn't help your case, for there are Creation historians out there who can argue my case much better than I.

 

[McBell]

Oh, so either y'all got tired of saying, "ignorant, stupid, deluded" or you saw it wasn't working and it isn't true, so now you say "victim" and drama queen. If you spent half the effort you use in calling creationists names, instead using that effort in just show me the evidence. Personal attacks on me doesn't help your case, for there are Creation historians out there who can argue my case much better than I.

Sad that you cannot get over yourself long enough to have an honest meaningful discussion.

Are you honestly content being a playtoy for those who are bored?
I mean, it is so easy to lead you around by the nose with your eagerness to be a victim....

 

[Brian Schuh]

Creation doesn't belong in a science classroom, it belongs in the history classroom.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Creation doesn't belong in a science classroom, it belongs in the history classroom.

It belongs in a mythology classroom at best.