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Evolution: ask your questions here

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
ok... let's try not to derail things with tail chasing arguments like:

"Your scripture is just a dumb myth pblah!"
"nu-uh it's not your dumb pblah!"

It goes nowhere and is frankly disrespectful. (neither side demonstrates any maturity)

Let's try to keep the OP shall we?

Questions about Evolutionary theory and the answers to those questions.

This thread isn't about attacking theism, let's keep it that way.

wa:do
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
The book of Genesis is not a fictional fable but of way explaining how things came to be.

Unless you can come up with a better one.
Is your understanding of that story consistent with modern science, including a planet that's more than 4 billion years old, and the theory of evolution?
 

newhope101

Active Member
Chicken or the egg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl.[14] Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the chicken egg, based on the second definition, came before the chicken.

progress.gif


You missed the best bit from Wiki. Is that what you call quote mining?

Evolution
Main article: Evolution
Darwin's theory of evolution states that species change over time via mutation and selection. Since DNA can be modified only before birth, a mutation must have taken place at conception or within an egg such that an animal similar to a chicken, but not a chicken, laid the first chicken egg.[13][14] In this light, both the egg and the chicken evolved simultaneously from birds that were not chickens and did not lay chicken eggs but gradually became more and more like chickens over time.
However, a mutation in one individual is not normally considered a new species. A speciation event involves the separation of one population from its parent population, so that interbreeding ceases; this is the process whereby domesticated animals are genetically separated from their wild forebears. The whole separated group can then be recognized as a new species.
The modern chicken was believed to have descended from another closely related species of birds, the red junglefowl, but recently discovered genetic evidence suggests that the modern domestic chicken is a hybrid descendant of both the red junglefowl and the grey junglefowl.[15] Assuming the evidence bears out, a hybrid is a compelling scenario that the chicken egg, based on the second definition, came before the chicken.

So the explanation is that two birds that were already laying eggs hybridized and that explains how egg laying 'evolved'...NOT!

As spoken to above it takes 'egg laying' to set in a population before speciation, as such, occurs.

This topic appears to be similar to the half wing arguments re birds and how sea creatures evolved air breathing lungs to land and then re evolved aquatic features to go back to the sea eg Whales. Evos have come up with all sorts of strange theories to explain half wings etc and their justifications for evolutionary selection and it all sounds like straw grabbing nonsense.

Figure*1 : Bird-like fossil footprints from the Late Triassic : Nature
This site shows bird footprints in the late triassic.

Access : Bird-like fossil footprints from the Late Triassic : Nature
This research flippantly disregards these bird footprints as some "unknown group of Late Triassic theropods having some avian characters."

Clearly the assumption of therapods having some avian characteristics is born of necessity. Otherwise your whole bird evolution theory flies out the window. There is no evidence to suggest that these footprints are anything less than what they appear to be, footprints of fully formed birds that predate the dinos they alledgedly evolved from. This is what you science heads should be telling the community.
 
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outhouse

Atheistically
You missed the best bit from Wiki. Is that what you call quote mining?

well thats much better then your quote mining, plagiarism and the twisting of the facts at hand that you are so accustomed too on a regular basis.

quit twisting word to meet your personal IMAGINATION

evolution is both fact and theory

you are all fantasy and imagination
 

lunamoth

Will to love
Why is it that plants did not become the dominant, sentient species, and with decomposers being the main source of CO2?
 

newhope101

Active Member
I'd like to request some information relating to an article. The article appears to make a case that researchers have no clue in relation to the ancestry of mammals. I support it. What do you all have to say about it...preferably with accompanying evidence and preferably that is not purley based on assumptions and huge leaps of faith.

Please shed some light on the following questions and assertions within this article relating to the platypus and monotremes:
Truth In Science - Platypus: a Darwinian Cautionary Tale

So we have a few questions:
1. For the lactation machinery to evolve from a sweat gland there has to be a functioning sweat gland but reptiles [and birds] do not possess sweat glands. There is no requirement for sweat glands until the animal has evolved an endothermic physiology. In other words, a mammal has to be a mammal to possess a sweat gland.

2. Since sweat is 99% water, why was it deemed necessary to evolve all the milk protein coding genes just to keep the eggs cool? It is worth noting that milk has no nutritional benefit for a developing embryo encased in the monotreme egg.If, as Professor Wolpert and others suggest, lactation in the platypus is the beginning of the evolution of the breast [presumably the nipple and the machinery associated with it], one has to assume that all the ancient mammals from the mid-Triassic to the Cretaceous had monotreme-like oviparous physiology even though there is no fossil evidence to suggest that this is true. The general Darwinian consensus [also reflected in the Nature paper on the platypus genome] is that the monotremes diverged from the other mammals approximately 166 million years ago.
Nevertheless, the oldest known fossils recognisable as monotremes include Teinolophos trusleri, Steropodon galmani and Kollikodon ritchiei. These creatures are conventionally dated at approximately 100 to120 million years, supposedly 100 million years after the emergence of true mammals in the fossil record in the late Triassic.

So was Castorocauda an ancient monotreme? According to Kemp, “the solution to the mystery of the monotremes continues to be elusive”. Presumably, this will remain the situation until there is some major revision in current Darwinian thinking.


In other words, the brain of the monotreme is specifically wired to enable the creature to perform its remarkable abilities. It is not at all surprising therefore, following the publication of the platypus genome, that this uniqueness is reflected in the genes of this amazing creature. In fact, whatever the platypus does, it will require the genes to enable it to do so. It is like a bird as it lays eggs. It is like a reptile as it produces venom. It is a warm blooded fur-covered mammal producing milk to suckle its young. It has a unique electro-sensory system and can detect odours and pheromones underwater with unparalleled sensitivity. It is worth noting that the other main group of vertebrates that rely of electroreception are fish and sharks in particular!

The platypus will remain a significant misfit in any Darwinian scheme.

Is it from a sauropsid lineage which includes reptiles and birds?
Is it from a synapsid lineage which supposedly led to the emergence of the mammals?
Or is it derived independently from some unknown ancestral amniote? Or could it be that the Darwinian hypothesis, cladistic analysis or any other classification system for that matter is just far too restrictive?

Without doubt, there are mammal-like reptiles as there are reptile-like mammals. The platypus is a Darwinian cautionary tale. Is it a bird or is it a plain … old platypus?



...and just a kind that is not decendant from anything. What do you all think?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
If theory of evolution suggests or implies something other than a biblical world view, no.
Well, people have very different ideas about what a Biblical world-view is, so in your view, does it?

Do you feel like you have clear understanding of what the Theory of Evolution actually says?
 

Autodidact

Intentionally Blank
Why is it that plants did not become the dominant, sentient species, and with decomposers being the main source of CO2?

Interesting. I don't know, which will not prevent me from commenting and speculating. First, are plants possibly dominant, if not sentient? What I mean is, if you add up all the biomass on the planet, I'm guessing most of it is plant, rather than animal.

But maybe you're wondering why plants didn't develop sentience, or at least, the same sort of sentience that many animals species have? I'm going to speculate it's because they didn't need to to survive and reproduce. I mean, if your main source of energy is sunlight, maybe you don't need a whole lot of sentience to locate and get it.
 
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