Evolution based on random mutations and natural selection

[Guy Threepwood]

LOL. You still don't get it do you... as an example if he wanted a better antenna he would just tell the computer to pick a million random shapes and use the principles of evolution and natural selection and let the computer evolve the best antenna shape by itself. He wouldn't know until the computer was finished exactly what it would look like.

right, so the better antenna is the pre-determined result of purposeful intent, it's what the system was told to produce- by creative intelligence.

Without the specific purpose in mind for a better antenna, it would not be created.

does the computer ever spontaneously accidentally produce a superior random product without being instructed to? let alone program itself to do anything?

 

[ArtieE]

My thread is about random mutations or a designer behind creation, it isn't about Islam, if you wish to discuss Islam then it's easy to open a thread for that.

I take it then that you don't have any support for your claim and as such the video has not been refuted.

 

[ArtieE]

I wonder how they can't understand such simple requirement.

Because it's not a requirement. It starts with chemical evolution using natural selection and when the cell stage has evolved we call the cell alive and from there we call the process biological evolution. At no point is an intelligent programmer or a pre-determined result required. How Earth's Primordial Soup Came to Life | Chemical Evolution & Natural Selection | Primordial Soup & The Origin of Life

 

[FearGod]

I take it then that you don't have any support for your claim and as such the video has not been refuted.

You can think the way you wish, no problem

 

[ArtieE]

right, so the better antenna is the pre-determined result of purposeful intent, it's what the system was told to produce- by creative intelligence.

Without the specific purpose in mind for a better antenna, it would not be created.

does the computer ever spontaneously accidentally produce a superior random product without being instructed to? let alone program itself to do anything?

Irrelevant of course. In the real world chemical and biological evolution and natural selection doesn't require any instructions or any programmer only natural laws. Two molecules don't require being instructed by some intelligence to interact or how to interact. Their interaction is simply determined by their inherent properties.

 

[ArtieE]

You can think the way you wish, no problem

OK then, since you haven't provided evidence to the contrary the person on the video is right and the Koran says that the earth is flat and the sun moves.

 

[FearGod]

Because it's not a requirement. It starts with chemical evolution using natural selection and when the cell stage has evolved we call the cell alive and from there we call the process biological evolution. At no point is an intelligent programmer or a pre-determined result required. How Earth's Primordial Soup Came to Life | Chemical Evolution & Natural Selection | Primordial Soup & The Origin of Life

So chemical evolution was required for life to start which you think that it happened for no reason but just it happened then for no reason the chemical evolution were suitable for life to start on earth and then it happened that life evolved into more complex organisms by random mutations and natural selection.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Irrelevant of course. In the real world chemical and biological evolution and natural selection doesn't require any instructions or any programmer only natural laws. Two molecules don't require being instructed by some intelligence to interact or how to interact. Their interaction is simply determined by their inherent properties.

Just like the program in your analogy where the program is the natural law

If a person were skeptical that the antenna was the product of purposeful intent- he might examine the process, identify the random element involved, and conclude that the entire functionality, purpose of the antenna was by extension also merely a random unintended consequence of the inherent properties' of the design system.... no 'supernatural intelligence' required right?
and having rejected creative intelligence from this process, he may even by association conclude that the program must have accidentally written itself also!
I fear you may be a closet creationist Artie!

 

[FearGod]

OK then, since you haven't provided evidence to the contrary the person on the video is right and the Koran says that the earth is flat and the sun moves.

I said to you this thread is about creation and evolution, you can think of Islam as wrong religion, i don't have problem for which religion you want to believe or if you don't believe in any that is up to you.

 

[ArtieE]

So chemical evolution was required for life to start which you think that it happened for no reason

The reason it happened was that molecules interacted with each other and due to natural laws and evolution and natural selection they just naturally evolved and grew bigger and bigger and more complex. Just like thunder and lightning happens naturally and don't require a god to have some reason to start it.

but just it happened then for no reason

For the simple reason that molecules interact according to their properties and the laws of nature and evolution and natural selection and bigger and more complex collections of molecules was the natural result.

 

[ArtieE]

Just like the program in your analogy where the program is the natural law

If a person were skeptical that the antenna was the product of purposeful intent- he might examine the process, identify the random element involved, and conclude that the entire functionality, purpose of the antenna was by extension also merely a random unintended consequence of the inherent properties' of the design system.... no 'supernatural intelligence' required right?
and having rejected creative intelligence from this process, he may even by association conclude that the program must have accidentally written itself also!
I fear you may be a closet creationist Artie!

I don't follow your reasoning so I can't answer.

 

[FearGod]

The reason it happened was that molecules interacted with each other and due to natural laws and evolution and natural selection they just naturally evolved and grew bigger and bigger and more complex. Just like thunder and lightning happens naturally and don't require a god to have some reason to start it.For the simple reason that molecules interact according to their properties and the laws of nature and evolution and natural selection and bigger and more complex collections of molecules was the natural result.

And where did first living cell come from, how life started from the inanimate nature.

 

[Sapiens]

The driver will have the same personality but the memory which was stored in his brain will be lost.

... and weirder, and weirder, and weirder, and weirder.

 

[ArtieE]

And where did first living cell come from, how life started from the inanimate nature.

There are seven properties a collection of molecules must have in order to be called alive.

Cellular organization
Homeostasis
Metabolism
Responsiveness
Reproduction
Heredity
Growth

Collections of molecules kept growing and getting more and more complex. When the collections got so big and complex that they acquired the properties listed above we call them alive.

7 Properties of Life flashcards | Quizlet

 

[FearGod]

There are seven properties a collection of molecules must have in order to be called alive.

Cellular organization
Homeostasis
Metabolism
Responsiveness
Reproduction
Heredity
Growth

Collections of molecules kept growing and getting more and more complex. When the collections got so big and complex that they acquired the properties listed above we call them alive.

7 Properties of Life flashcards | Quizlet

And how life originated from non living matter ?

 

[Sapiens]

And how life originated from non living matter ?

While there are good sound hypothesis, we do not know (at this time) and are likely to never know ... so what?

 

[ArtieE]

And how life originated from non living matter ?

That's what I just explained to you! Collections of molecules (non living matter) evolved and grew and got more and more complex until they evolved into collections that could do

Cellular organization
Homeostasis
Metabolism
Responsiveness
Reproduction
Heredity
Growth

and those collections we call living matter.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

I don't follow your reasoning so I can't answer.

The point being; the utilization of randomization in a system in no way denotes that the result or the system itself are also random, the opposite argument can be made at least as well, as your programming analogy demonstrates.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

And how life originated from non living matter ?

Genesis..

 

[ArtieE]

The point being; the utilization of randomization in a system in no way denotes that the result or the system itself are also random, the opposite argument can be made at least as well, as your programming analogy demonstrates.

Well of course the result isn't random when it's the result of natural selection.