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Evolution & Creationism are both Faith & Supernatural based

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
As always you just ignore the oh so obvious because you know that once you admit to what I am saying it is a non starter for evolution and it is dead. So I've posted a link that if you read has multiple articles dealing with Origins but also esp abiogenesis etc and why it is so absolutely key to our discussion. Maybe he can say it in a way I can't to get you to understand. Although I have my doubts because it involves your "faith" in no God or atheism. Both are faith based mine and yours. Mine is more logical due to the evidence and your bad science. You are too invested in that bad science. So it makes it not about science its about your worldview. Which you are certainly entitled to. At least admit it and don't try to hide behind it as science when it isn't science its fraud science and bad science admitted to by your leaders of the past and present. You can peruse through the whole website if you so choose. Sadly I doubt you will. BTW adaptation is fine and proven. Not macro evolution which is a huge difference when you go from one species or kinds to another. Which I have discussed before. Like in roses, wheat, corn, dogs and cats etc. You can select certain traits and do genetics with them but you never will get a brand new species. They will always stay a rose, wheat, corn, dog and cat etc. You claim that is a step to forming new "kinds" or species but if so why can't mankind with all his brain do it now if "nature" without a intelligent brain did it already. Mutation forms of disease etc are not evolved "kinds' they are still what they were just adapted. Which btw this same site explains well too from this link and home page. Again doubt you will check to see what former evolution scientist have to say once they learned the truth.

Apologetics Press
Who are you talking to??

It's clear that you do not understand evolution. That's probably because you have been getting your information from apologetics sites which are notorious for inaccurate information. You really need to search some academic sites, if you actually want to learn something about evolution, which does not include abiogenesis.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
As always you just ignore the oh so obvious because you know that once you admit to what I am saying it is a non starter for evolution and it is dead. So I've posted a link that if you read has multiple articles dealing with Origins but also esp abiogenesis etc and why it is so absolutely key to our discussion. Maybe he can say it in a way I can't to get you to understand. Although I have my doubts because it involves your "faith" in no God or atheism. Both are faith based mine and yours. Mine is more logical due to the evidence and your bad science. You are too invested in that bad science. So it makes it not about science its about your worldview. Which you are certainly entitled to. At least admit it and don't try to hide behind it as science when it isn't science its fraud science and bad science admitted to by your leaders of the past and present. You can peruse through the whole website if you so choose. Sadly I doubt you will. BTW adaptation is fine and proven. Not macro evolution which is a huge difference when you go from one species or kinds to another. Which I have discussed before. Like in roses, wheat, corn, dogs and cats etc. You can select certain traits and do genetics with them but you never will get a brand new species. They will always stay a rose, wheat, corn, dog and cat etc. You claim that is a step to forming new "kinds" or species but if so why can't mankind with all his brain do it now if "nature" without a intelligent brain did it already. Mutation forms of disease etc are not evolved "kinds' they are still what they were just adapted. Which btw this same site explains well too from this link and home page. Again doubt you will check to see what former evolution scientist have to say once they learned the truth.

Apologetics Press
If you can't be honest how do you expect anyone to have a discussion with you? Let me explain something to you, the theory of evolution does not rely upon abiogenesis. It does not matter what the first source of life was. Relying on lying sources will not change this fact.

By moving the goalposts you concede the previous argument. And since your initial argument is about evolution by moving the goalposts to abiogenesis you tacitly admitted that evolution is true.

Now if you can be honest and discuss evolution I will discuss evolution with you. If you can be honest and admit that evolution is a fact but want to discuss abiogenesis I will discuss abgiognesis with you.

Does that sound reasonable? All you need to do is to be honest and I do believe that is required behavior for Christians.
 
I decided to make it easier for you just in case. I have linked 3 articles directly that deal with biogenesis and one that deals with "faith" issue between evolution and creationist which I hear often. First 3 are biogenesis and last one is faith based comparison. Have a great day. These articles at least at points some of the great evolutionist had to admit the truth. Will you?


“Abiogenesis is Irrelevant to Evolution”

The Law of Biogenesis [Part I]

The Law of Biogenesis [Part II]

"Unlike Naturalists, You Creationists Have a Blind Faith"
 
Read the articles! You can't even be honest enough to read the articles and quotes from evolutionist themselves. Who is being dishonest?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
Read the articles! You can't even be honest enough to read the articles and quotes from evolutionist themselves. Who is being dishonest?
What's an "evolutionist?"
I decided to make it easier for you just in case. I have linked 3 articles directly that deal with biogenesis and one that deals with "faith" issue between evolution and creationist which I hear often. First 3 are biogenesis and last one is faith based comparison. Have a great day. These articles at least at points some of the great evolutionist had to admit the truth. Will you?


“Abiogenesis is Irrelevant to Evolution”

The Law of Biogenesis [Part I]

The Law of Biogenesis [Part II]

"Unlike Naturalists, You Creationists Have a Blind Faith"
Why would anybody care to address a bunch of dishonest quote mines? Do you have any honest arguments to offer?

Also, atheism has nothing to do with evolution. There are plenty of theists in this world who accept that evolution happens.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Read the articles! You can't even be honest enough to read the articles and quotes from evolutionist themselves. Who is being dishonest?

The authors of these articles are being dishonest. They are taking quotes out of context, falsely characterizing evolution as inherently 'atheistic', mischaracterizing the work of Pasteur, and generally arguing fallaciously repeatedly.

How about going to the actual articles where those scientists are writing and seeing what they actually said in context? How about presenting the *actual* scientific data and how life is a complex collection of chemical processes? How about acknowledging that pasteur's work does not directly apply to abiogenesis? How about actually looking at the theory of evolution, what it says, and what the evidence is that backs it up? How about not confusing a scientific outlook with an atheistic one?

Evolution says NOTHING about whether a deity exists or not. That is simply not a question that needs to be addressed when discussing how life changes over time.
 
So you are smarter than all the scientist quoted and textbooks quoted? That's rich! Hopeless when you won't even read what they have said & admit to & why it is relevant and goes right to the heart of the matter. You are so the ones guilty of what you accuse me of. It is so apparent it is almost funny if not so sad. You are proving the old saying, When you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at you. Look in the mirror. You are the guilty party.
They are not quote mines if you would actually read the articles you would find that out but truth was never your objective anyway and you are just alike. Read and you will see yourself. You will see yourself all over this thread what you call quote mining when it is what you are even saying all through this thread.
I'm very sad for you and that is honestly true. Those scientist and others like yourselves when the truth is right there & due to bias and agenda chose to delude themselves regardless. That is what supposed educated "fools" do. They have to remind themselves of their bias and not to acknowledge to truth of the science they are seeing right in front of them. Wow is that what we call science today? Apparently.

Another Pointless Attempt to Defeat Biogenesis

“Scientists Don’t Have a Clue How Life Began”

It really is heartbreaking for people to ignore what is so plain in front of them and esp those that claim to be educated and esp scientist that admit bias overrides truth of observations and testing like real science with logic and common sense. I'm still waiting for an example of a self creating Functional Design sans evolution just so stories.

God and the Laws of Science: The Laws of Probability
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I decided to make it easier for you just in case. I have linked 3 articles directly that deal with biogenesis and one that deals with "faith" issue between evolution and creationist which I hear often. First 3 are biogenesis and last one is faith based comparison. Have a great day. These articles at least at points some of the great evolutionist had to admit the truth. Will you?


“Abiogenesis is Irrelevant to Evolution”

The Law of Biogenesis [Part I]

The Law of Biogenesis [Part II]

"Unlike Naturalists, You Creationists Have a Blind Faith"
When you rely on lying idiots you look like a lying idiot. If you notice your dishonest site goes out of its way to claim the authors have "PhD"s. The problem is that they are in irrelevant fields. They are being misleading by doing so. The so called "experts" that your sources rely on are no more expert than I am. And since I don't have to lie I can beat them in a debate.

Second your sources do not even understand the Law of Biogenesis.

As long as you argue this way I will point out that you are claiming that evolution is correct. Even though it is clear that you do not realize that you are doing so.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
So you are smarter than all the scientist quoted and textbooks quoted? That's rich! Hopeless when you won't even read what they have said & admit to & why it is relevant and goes right to the heart of the matter. You are so the ones guilty of what you accuse me of. It is so apparent it is almost funny if not so sad. You are proving the old saying, When you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at you. Look in the mirror. You are the guilty party.
They are not quote mines if you would actually read the articles you would find that out but truth was never your objective anyway and you are just alike. Read and you will see yourself. You will see yourself all over this thread what you call quote mining when it is what you are even saying all through this thread.
I'm very sad for you and that is honestly true. Those scientist and others like yourselves when the truth is right there & due to bias and agenda chose to delude themselves regardless. That is what supposed educated "fools" do. They have to remind themselves of their bias and not to acknowledge to truth of the science they are seeing right in front of them. Wow is that what we call science today? Apparently.

Another Pointless Attempt to Defeat Biogenesis

“Scientists Don’t Have a Clue How Life Began”

It really is heartbreaking for people to ignore what is so plain in front of them and esp those that claim to be educated and esp scientist that admit bias overrides truth of observations and testing like real science with logic and common sense. I'm still waiting for an example of a self creating Functional Design sans evolution just so stories.

God and the Laws of Science: The Laws of Probability
When someone has to lie to hold a idiotic belief then yes, I am smarter than that person in that aspect. Your source lies to you. Those are not experts in the field.

It appears that you are extremely gullible.

Can you have an honest discussion? Lying by proxy is still lying. You should be able to do better than this.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
So you are smarter than all the scientist quoted and textbooks quoted? That's rich! Hopeless when you won't even read what they have said & admit to & why it is relevant and goes right to the heart of the matter. You are so the ones guilty of what you accuse me of. It is so apparent it is almost funny if not so sad. You are proving the old saying, When you point a finger at someone you have three pointing back at you. Look in the mirror. You are the guilty party.
They are not quote mines if you would actually read the articles you would find that out but truth was never your objective anyway and you are just alike. Read and you will see yourself. You will see yourself all over this thread what you call quote mining when it is what you are even saying all through this thread.
I'm very sad for you and that is honestly true. Those scientist and others like yourselves when the truth is right there & due to bias and agenda chose to delude themselves regardless. That is what supposed educated "fools" do. They have to remind themselves of their bias and not to acknowledge to truth of the science they are seeing right in front of them. Wow is that what we call science today? Apparently.

Another Pointless Attempt to Defeat Biogenesis

“Scientists Don’t Have a Clue How Life Began”

It really is heartbreaking for people to ignore what is so plain in front of them and esp those that claim to be educated and esp scientist that admit bias overrides truth of observations and testing like real science with logic and common sense. I'm still waiting for an example of a self creating Functional Design sans evolution just so stories.

God and the Laws of Science: The Laws of Probability
You have yet to be able to respond to a single post explaining the misinformation and outright lies you are posting, so why should anybody take the time to read your posts any longer?

Forums are for debate, not ranting. Either respond to the criticisms with arguments of your own, or stop posting.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Read the articles! You can't even be honest enough to read the articles and quotes from evolutionist themselves. Who is being dishonest?

Do you know what a PRATT is? It is a Point Refuted A Thousand Times. That is all that you can post. The burden of proof is not upon us to read articles form a bogus source. I did better than reading the articles. I looked up the authors and saw what fields their degrees were in. I found that they were not biologists. They are arguing about a field that they are not experts in. That makes their claims no better than mine. When I make a specific claim I can support it with work that went through the peer reviewed process. The liars that you refer to can't do that.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
More of the same... how can we compete with such a genius mind, I can feel myself being assimilated. Either that or I'm trapped inside Fawlty Towers and Manuel is explaining ToE to me.
 

John53

I go leaps and bounds
Premium Member
Read the articles! You can't even be honest enough to read the articles and quotes from evolutionist themselves. Who is being dishonest?

You posted 3 links at 2.26am my time (Eastern Australian Time) then 2 minutes latter at 2.28am posted this accusing me of being dishonest for not reading the articles. You're right, I didn't read them in that 2 minute widow, I plead guilty.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
This must be the refugee forum, there is a few from my old forum here too. I've heard of the Ozarks but don't know a lot about them
It is a geological uplift that makes up most of southern Missouri, northern Arkansas and little bits of Oklahoma and southern Illinois. We have the oldest mountains in North America. Except they are very low, having eroded down to nearly nothing. It was largely forest prior to settlement and still has a fair area of woods, clear, gravel-bottom streams, springs, caves and lots of hills, though my part of the Ozarks has some open, rolling land as well. The geology is karst, hence all the springs and caves. The portion in northwest Arkansas is actually much more wild, less developed, and, until recently, less populated, but times are changing.

I live on the eastern edge of it, but I miss being in my old home range.

It has been a refugee forum for me. I left for here a year or so ago. Last I heard, they shut the old Topix forum down. Moderators were lax to absent at times there, so you could get away with a lot more than would fly on this one. There was one guy that must have had 50 different identities he used to post with. He was practically his own forum.



Sydney is about 4hrs drive, I hate it, too many people. Toowoomba and Darwin are a long way from me.
Darwin, I hear has a lot of influence out of Asia, economically and somewhat culturally, or so I am told. My brush with it was research going on to restart cotton production there. Being tropical, it is difficult to manage cotton with all the pests. Modern genetics may be the solution, though I have sort of lost track of that, being removed in time from the work by nearly a decade.

I am a product of a small community, but I have spent the last 20 years in a metro area of over a million people. I may have grown a bit soft over the years and use to conveniences I did not have in my youth.

It suits me, I'm a massive introvert and there's not a lot of people. I have good neighbours but you can go weeks without seeing them. But if you want a social life there's not much here. Last year we had friends of my wife's daughter from Las Vegas stay here, they lasted 2 days, the last straw was when they wanted to go out and eat and I said you will have to do it no latter than 5.15pm because everything shuts at 6 lol.
I still love small towns and rural life. With the internet, it is not so difficult to reach out for more modern conveniences by mail, though, I imagine if you are used to nightlife, it would be difficult.



The wife and I had the travel bug about 15 years ago, we did most of Australia on a motorbike and camping in a tent, did it for about 2 years before we got sick of it. She travels back to America a couple of times each year but these days I'm happy sitting around bird watching, woodworking or trying to find the meaning of life on the internet.
That sounds awesome. What an exciting way to travel. I am probably too soft to do something like that now, but at one time, that sort of thing held a lot of appeal. I love camping. I still do it when I can, though not from the back of a motorbike.

I know that you have an incredibly diverse insect fauna that I would love to see, or at least what I could see. Too many species to take in all at one go. Birding, botany, geology. All of those would be fun to carry out in your neighborhood I expect. Australia has some of the oldest fossils known.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
You posted 3 links at 2.26am my time (Eastern Australian Time) then 2 minutes latter at 2.28am posted this accusing me of being dishonest for not reading the articles. You're right, I didn't read them in that 2 minute widow, I plead guilty.
He really showed you. What happened? Ha Ha! I guess, he is used to ignoring people that can speed read.

This guy cracks me up. He posts like he is hardly aware others are on here and pays no attention to what we are saying. Maybe I was not too far off when I entertained speculation about him being delusional.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
@Patriottechsan , let me try to explain the proper way to debate. Just linking a site is not good enough. Especially when it is a bogus site. You need to quote a pertinent passage from that site and apply it to the arguments of others.

As to the law of bigoenesis, that is a law that says that modern complex life, such as flies, various pests or even bacteria (which have had at least 3 billion of years of evolution in their history) appear out of nothing. It does not ban abiogenesis. What the Law of Bigoenesis actually does is to deny your beliefs. It says that creationist beliefs are false.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
As always you just ignore the oh so obvious because you know that once you admit to what I am saying it is a non starter for evolution and it is dead. So I've posted a link that if you read has multiple articles dealing with Origins but also esp abiogenesis etc and why it is so absolutely key to our discussion. Maybe he can say it in a way I can't to get you to understand. Although I have my doubts because it involves your "faith" in no God or atheism. Both are faith based mine and yours. Mine is more logical due to the evidence and your bad science. You are too invested in that bad science. So it makes it not about science its about your worldview. Which you are certainly entitled to. At least admit it and don't try to hide behind it as science when it isn't science its fraud science and bad science admitted to by your leaders of the past and present. You can peruse through the whole website if you so choose. Sadly I doubt you will. BTW adaptation is fine and proven. Not macro evolution which is a huge difference when you go from one species or kinds to another. Which I have discussed before. Like in roses, wheat, corn, dogs and cats etc. You can select certain traits and do genetics with them but you never will get a brand new species. They will always stay a rose, wheat, corn, dog and cat etc. You claim that is a step to forming new "kinds" or species but if so why can't mankind with all his brain do it now if "nature" without a intelligent brain did it already. Mutation forms of disease etc are not evolved "kinds' they are still what they were just adapted. Which btw this same site explains well too from this link and home page. Again doubt you will check to see what former evolution scientist have to say once they learned the truth.

Apologetics Press
Adaptation is not proven. Adaptation is supported by the evidence and is evolution. All macro-evolution is, is adaptation over deep time. The evidence supports macro-evolution too, you just refuse to look at the evidence and learn what it all means.
 

Dan From Smithville

The Flying Elvises, Utah Chapter
Staff member
Premium Member
@Patriottechsan , let me try to explain the proper way to debate. Just linking a site is not good enough. Especially when it is a bogus site. You need to quote a pertinent passage from that site and apply it to the arguments of others.

As to the law of bigoenesis, that is a law that says that modern complex life, such as flies, various pests or even bacteria (which have had at least 3 billion of years of evolution in their history) appear out of nothing. It does not ban abiogenesis. What the Law of Bigoenesis actually does is to deny your beliefs. It says that creationist beliefs are false.
I thought he was done with this thread/forum, but it looks like he is back to give us the rest of the standard creationist claptrap that he had not dumped on us yet. Who could have predicted he would get to the law of biogenesis with creationist claims about it that we have seen a million times. Well, you, me, and everyone else could have guessed it. Is it really guessing, when you already know what to expect?
 
Actually some of the scientist on the Dissent List are from Texas Tech but more are from MIT

I've just looked over 6 pages and there are 28 pages and so far have found MIT 3, Harvard 1, John Hopkins 1, British Museum of Nat History 1, Royal Society of Chemistry 1, UCLA 1, USC 1, Rice 3, U of Ga 7, Duke 1, Princeton 3, Dartmouth 1, UT Austin 3, Cal Tech 1, Texas A&M 6, Cornell 2, Ohio State 2, Texas Tech 1, Columbia 1 and there are so many I have not listed and that is only 6 pages of the 28 and there are over 1000 signatures. There is no alphabetical order to it. I can continue or if you actually desire you can look for yourself. You keep claiming I am lying etc. Plus look at their scientific credentials.

https://dissentfromdarwin.org/
 
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