Evolution is no more science than Creationism is.

[lilithu]

We may know what gravity does, but we have no clue how gravity works.

Careful there. Someone is bound to claim that is proof of God.

 

[UnTheist]

Careful there. Someone is bound to claim that is proof of God.

Then they would have to prove which God is doing it.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Careful there. Someone is bound to claim that is proof of God.

There's more evidence that Angellous is your daddy.

The Scientific Evidence that Angellous is Your Daddy has more scientific validity than Creationism and I.D. theory combined.

I plan to sue any school district that dares teach I.D. or Creationism and exclude the evidence for Angellous as the pater familias. It would be a travesty of our educational system to exclude theories with as much merit. :computer:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

There's more evidence that Angellous is your daddy.

The Scientific Evidence that Angellous is Your Daddy has more scientific validity than Creationism and I.D. theory combined.

I plan to sue any school district that dares teach I.D. or Creationism and exclude the evidence for Angellous as the pater familias. It would be a travesty of our educational system to exclude theories with as much merit. :computer:

I'm afraid your target audience won't understand this post, Angellous. :sad4:

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'm afraid your target audience won't understand this post, Angellous. :sad4:

Well the links should help.

However, as Neitzche said, I write only for my readers.

 

[lunamoth]

I'm afraid your target audience won't understand this post, Angellous. :sad4:

Remember Angellous is our Daddy!

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Remember Angellous is our Daddy!

I never let him forget.

 

[Luke_17:2]

If there is proof for evolution than prove it...............................

You can't. You say that evolution is science, and we have theories to explain it. We don't know it happened. Let's go over this again:

1. People evoloved from apes. Fine, then where are the 30,000 missing links. Scientists as we speak are searching for "the missing link". But the problem with that is this: in order to completely fill the gap between ape, and human; we'd need not 1, but 30,000 links: we haven't found one.

2. There was a big bang. Fine, what exploded? Matter? Where did the matter come from? If this was the beginning of the universe, then why was there matter in the first place?

3. Stars evolved. Fine, then why haven't we ever seen one form, and why aren't there any forming? You can't say that it's an oddity because we see stars blow up all the time.

4. The Earth, and all other planets in the Solar System formed from the Sun. Fine, then why do 3 planets, and at least 6 moons revolve the opposite direction of all the other bodies in the Solar System? If the sun was spinning fast enough to throw off pieces of itself, they would all be spinning in the same direction. That's not the case.

Some of you have questioned the half-life of 1400 years. Here are a couple formulas:

t=(Q-Q0)/R
or
t=(t1/2lnQ0/Q)/ln2

where:

t is elapsed time (historical date)
Q is the current quantity.
Q0 is the initial quantity.
R is the measured rate of change.
t1/2 is defined as radioactive half- life.

Aside from the half-life, it can also apply to the rate of mineral deposition.

In regard to the II Law of Thermodynamics. It can be observed. People die, civilizations die, the sun is dying, the earth is dying. Everything dies: proof of the II Law of Thermodynamics. Evolution, which says everything gets better when left unto itself, is a direct contradiction. And since we have never seen anything that would prove evolution, but things die everyday; I'd say that evolution has been greatly discredited by that much alone.

 

[MaddLlama]

If there is proof for evolution than prove it...............................

You can't. You say that evolution is science, and we have theories to explain it. We don't know it happened. Let's go over this again:

1. People evoloved from apes. Fine, then where are the 30,000 missing links. Scientists as we speak are searching for "the missing link". But the problem with that is this: in order to completely fill the gap between ape, and human; we'd need not 1, but 30,000 links: we haven't found one.

2. There was a big bang. Fine, what exploded? Matter? Where did the matter come from? If this was the beginning of the universe, then why was there matter in the first place?

3. Stars evolved. Fine, then why haven't we ever seen one form, and why aren't there any forming? You can't say that it's an oddity because we see stars blow up all the time.

4. The Earth, and all other planets in the Solar System formed from the Sun. Fine, then why do 3 planets, and at least 6 moons revolve the opposite direction of all the other bodies in the Solar System? If the sun was spinning fast enough to throw off pieces of itself, they would all be spinning in the same direction. That's not the case.

Some of you have questioned the half-life of 1400 years. Here are a couple formulas:

t=(Q-Q0)/R
or
t=(t1/2lnQ0/Q)/ln2

where:

t is elapsed time (historical date)
Q is the current quantity.
Q0 is the initial quantity.
R is the measured rate of change.
t1/2 is defined as radioactive half- life.

Aside from the half-life, it can also apply to the rate of mineral deposition.

In regard to the II Law of Thermodynamics. It can be observed. People die, civilizations die, the sun is dying, the earth is dying. Everything dies: proof of the II Law of Thermodynamics. Evolution, which says everything gets better when left unto itself, is a direct contradiction. And since we have never seen anything that would prove evolution, but things die everyday; I'd say that evolution has been greatly discredited by that much alone.

Do us all a favor and go read a book. I refuse to argue with the ignorant and uninformed. I also have no patience for the blissfully misinformed.

 

[Runlikethewind]

I will admit I am too lazy to read through all the posts so I'll just start at the beginning, and if I repeat anything then, by God it is worth repeating cause I said it!!!!

I adhere to Kent Hovind's position on Evolution: teach it in the schools as one alternative for where we came from; but teach Creationism and I.D. too because it is no less "science" than Evolution is.

I say it's not science for several reasons: we have never observed or found sufficient evidence for: macro evolution, stellar evolution, organic evolution, chemical evolution, and cosmic evolution. The only type of evolution we have ever observed is Micro Evolution; that is the evolution within species. Another reason, though that last one is by far enough, is population. Those are just some reasons, though there are plenty, those are the biggest reasons I think.

We cannot know for certain where we came from, and when you ask an evolutionist what his position is, he says: "I believe..." -a religious statement. So in the end evolution is just as much a religion as Creationism, or I.D. is.

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of science. Scientific theories like evolution do not seek to prove anything, they only seek to explain that which we have proven through observation. We have certain facts of observation, evolution seeks to explain those facts.
Fact: micro evolution has been observed, by your own admission
Fact: the fossil record shows a huge diversity of organisms many of which no longer exist today
Fact: genetic research shows that there are many shared similarities between species
Theory to explain these facts, Evolution. The theory successfully explains the facts it doesn't necessarily prove anything especially where we came from since this occurred in the past and is therefore beyond observation short of the invention of a time machine. Believing in a theory is a matter of natural faith which is very different from supernatural faith. Many people do not make this distinction between natural and supernatural faith. it takes natural faith to say I believe in evolution just as much as it takes to say I believe my car will start when I turn the key or I believe that my sister will arrive at my place at 3. Supernatural faith is required when making claims about God and there is a world of difference between the two.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

If there is proof for evolution than prove it...............................

You can't.

There really is no need to say any more than this.:cover:

Evolutionary theory is the primary assumption for every advancement in the biological and physical sciences. There is no metaphor for the depth of stupidity that your statement brutally exploits.

EDIT: Seriously, I don't even know where to send you to correct yourself.

 

[Runlikethewind]

If there is proof for evolution than prove it...............................You can't. You say that evolution is science, and we have theories to explain it. We don't know it happened. Let's go over this again:

You misunderstand the very nature of science. There is no "proof" of evolution per se there is only an overwhelming mountain of evidence of change in species over time and diversity of species on earth which is best explained by the theory of evolution.

1. People evoloved from apes. Fine, then where are the 30,000 missing links. Scientists as we speak are searching for "the missing link". But the problem with that is this: in order to completely fill the gap between ape, and human; we'd need not 1, but 30,000 links: we haven't found one.

Why 30,000? shouldn't there be allot more than that? The simple fact of the matter is that in order to become fossilized the environmental conditions have to be just right. Therefore much less than 1% of all life will have the privilege of ever becoming a fossil. Also, many sedimentary beds that contain fossils are buried under kilometers of rock and are not exposed to the surface so the of the very small percentage of life that does become fossilized only a very small percentage of those fossils are even exposed for us to find. So the chances of actually finding all of the so called missing links that you speak of is slim to none, which does not mean that they do not exist. The lack of links does not disprove evolution. And the simple fact of the matter is we have found several possible links.

3. Stars evolved. Fine, then why haven't we ever seen one form, and why aren't there any forming? You can't say that it's an oddity because we see stars blow up all the time.

The formation of a star would, in theory, take millions of years and we have not been around that long to observe the complete process. But, as you say, we do observe stars blowing up, and we also observe nebulas and we also observe stars of various types. These observations are facts which are explained by the theory of cosmic evolution. It may not be an oddity for stars form, but it takes a long time to do so and so it doesn't follow that cosmic evolution is wrong. Again you misunderstand the very nature of science. Cosmic evolution seeks to explain facts, if we had observed stars forming it would not be a theory but an observed fact.

4. The Earth, and all other planets in the Solar System formed from the Sun. Fine, then why do 3 planets, and at least 6 moons revolve the opposite direction of all the other bodies in the Solar System? If the sun was spinning fast enough to throw off pieces of itself, they would all be spinning in the same direction. That's not the case.

Wow. Did you ever take a class in astronomy? or physics? Your description does not even reflect how the theory of solar formation works. I don't need to argue this point because you seem to not have a firm understanding of how the theory of solar system formation explains the facts your argument is flawed by lack of understanding.

In regard to the II Law of Thermodynamics. It can be observed. People die, civilizations die, the sun is dying, the earth is dying. Everything dies: proof of the II Law of Thermodynamics. Evolution, which says everything gets better when left unto itself, is a direct contradiction. And since we have never seen anything that would prove evolution, but things die everyday; I'd say that evolution has been greatly discredited by that much alone.

Evolution does not say that anything gets better it only says that things change over time. So your argument is flawed by a lack of understanding of the theory of evolution. And again, evolution is not meant to prove anything, that is a misunderstanding of the nature of science. Evolutions is meant to explain not prove.

 

[Luke_17:2]

You are fundamentally misunderstanding the nature of science. Scientific theories like evolution do not seek to prove anything, they only seek to explain that which we have proven through observation. We have certain facts of observation, evolution seeks to explain those facts.

This is funny. I understand the nature of science, and I also understand your stance shifting. First your side was saying that evolution is science absolutely. I pick that apart; and then you say it's science, but we don't know about how it works, and so that is the theory part of it. Now you're saying that it isn't science except that it attempts to explain the mystery of creation. If this is the case, then why isn't I.D. or Creationism just as good an explanation? Because it doesn't have natural premise? That is stupid. We cannot disprove the existence of God, and as long as He may exist, He just may be the answer: a supernatural answer.

Fact: the fossil record shows a huge diversity of organisms many of which no longer exist today
Fact: genetic research shows that there are many shared similarities between species

Both can be explained by evolution. This is one of the things that evolution has going for it. Another thing is the fact that galaxies are moving away from each other. But these are some of the few things in the face of massive evidence against it that I have already spelled out.

But the first instance can also be explained by a great flood. The second instance can be explained by a common creator.

 

[Luke_17:2]

There really is no need to say any more than this.:cover:

Evolutionary theory is the primary assumption for every advancement in the biological and physical sciences. There is no metaphor for the depth of stupidity that your statement brutally exploits.

EDIT: Seriously, I don't even know where to send you to correct yourself.

Well, I see you have no more arguments to put forward. Yet another successful argument under my belt.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Do us all a favor and go read a book. I refuse to argue with the ignorant and uninformed. I also have no patience for the blissfully misinformed.

Enlighten me, Einstein. Where have I gone wrong? My point through this entire thread is that evolution is merely a theory to explain the fact: the universe exists; life exists. But the way it has been picked apart to show very little scientific (fact full) basis; it has become more of a religion. You want me to accept it blindly; that is just what a Moslem or Christian would say. You are a religious fanatic.

 

[MaddLlama]

Enlighten me, Einstein. Where have I gone wrong? My point through this entire thread is that evolution is merely a theory to explain the fact: the universe exists; life exists. But the way it has been picked apart to show very little scientific (fact full) basis; it has become more of a religion. You want me to accept it blindly; that is just what a Moslem or Christian would say. You are a religious fanatic.

If you're too lazy to actually read some scientific material, then why should I bother to take the time to explain it to you? Information is not a thing to be handed over on a silver platter.

 

[Luke_17:2]

Evolution does not say that anything gets better it only says that things change over time. So your argument is flawed by a lack of understanding of the theory of evolution. And again, evolution is not meant to prove anything, that is a misunderstanding of the nature of science. Evolutions is meant to explain not prove.

To evolve could mean to change, but most of its meanings imply progression. That is the point of evolution, or didn't you know that? It says that we were originally little bacterias in the primordial soup, then we progressed until be became monkeys, and now we're humans. That is evolution. And it is a direct contradiction to the II Law Thermodynamics.

Wow. Did you ever take a class in astronomy? or physics? Your description does not even reflect how the theory of solar formation works. I don't need to argue this point because you seem to not have a firm understanding of how the theory of solar system formation explains the facts your argument is flawed by lack of understanding.

I know that the description was not very eloquent, but the point is made clear. The celestial bodies in the Solar System were formed from the sun. When the sun was spinning at high speed immediately after its own formation, large pieces of it flew off at high speed until they were checked by the sun's gravity. They themselves cooled off and became planets. It's in everly elementary school science book; it's what evolution teaches.

 

[Luke_17:2]

If you're too lazy to actually read some scientific material, then why should I bother to take the time to explain it to you? Information is not a thing to be handed over on a silver platter.

I'll take that to meant that you've lost the argument, and are now too lazy yourself to try and counter my own arguments. But all the same you remain convinced of the veracity of evolution. Your religion.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Well, I see you have no more arguments to put forward. Yet another successful argument under my belt.

Only in your mind. You're so lost I simply don't know where to begin, and I'm not ashamed in the least to concede that.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I'll take that to meant that you've lost the argument, and are now too lazy yourself to try and counter my own arguments. But all the same you remain convinced of the veracity of evolution. Your religion.

Luke, wake up, brother!

There is so much evidence for evolution that it's not debated anymore! It's the foundational assumption now for every advancement in medicine and every other science. Evolution cannot be compared to religion and when you do that you come across as a complete idiot.