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Evolution, maybe someone can explain?

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
While I do not like or "embrace" Einstein's thoughts about God, I go along with him by default about his view of life vs death. I didn't ask him and I don't believe I can talk to him now, but I think he probably had the right view of death. Nothingness. But...unlike Einstein, I believe God can "bring back" the dead to life. Not sure though what you're referring to when you say Near Death experience. Thank you for your comment, glad you understand better what I now understand from the Bible. Life is life and death is not. :)
I think where Einstein missed the boat is not knowing that we are not just physical matter but all look also have astral and soul components in higher planes of nature.

Near Death Experiences are people that nearly died due to medical emergencies and left their bodies and saw glimpses of the afterlife.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
I think where Einstein missed the boat is not knowing that we are not just physical matter but all look also have astral and soul components in higher planes of nature.

Near Death Experiences are people that nearly died due to medical emergencies and left their bodies and saw glimpses of the afterlife.
Or their oxygen-deprived dying brains produced hallucinations informed by their assorted acculturations
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think where Einstein missed the boat is not knowing that we are not just physical matter but all look also have astral and soul components in higher planes of nature.

Near Death Experiences are people that nearly died due to medical emergencies and left their bodies and saw glimpses of the afterlife.
Einstein, like many, could not dissect religious viewpoints. That's how I was until events changed in my life. Thus, if Einstein is resurrected, I hope he will learn more.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I think where Einstein missed the boat is not knowing that we are not just physical matter but all look also have astral and soul components in higher planes of nature.

Near Death Experiences are people that nearly died due to medical emergencies and left their bodies and saw glimpses of the afterlife.
I have heard of near death experiences like that. Thanks for explaining but...! I do not equate life and death. However not sure about the validity of near death experiences.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Or their oxygen-deprived dying brains produced hallucinations informed by their assorted acculturations
I am aware of that theory but consider it unsatisfactory especially when people see verifiable real-world events that they shouldn't have been able to see.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Hi again cladking. I have been reading a bit about a scientist who won the Noble Prize but his other ideas about how life began are so literally outlandish I realize with some of these people literally anything goes. He thought it possible that a spaceship came from outer space and left elements for life on the earth. I used to work for a firm that published science fiction. The idea that this quite notable scientist propounded such a ludicrous idea imo of course has really turned me around. I know there are those that will say oh yeah maybe it did happen that way .. And now I say to such ones, maybe I'll see ya, so long for now...

A few billion years is a very long time so maybe life is something that escaped from UFO garbage but it's more likely it was transported here with the cosmic dust. The latter is much more poetic and potentially divine. It's also more likely since there was only a short window of time that the UFO garbage could have survived.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
From what you have shown us, you seem convinced no one other than YOU knows anything. Only YOU have all the answers, all the information. All the understanding. Clearly that isn't the case and you seem to resist all attempts to reach YOU.

I don't know anything. I believe I may know how reality is formatted. Knowing there are nine innings to a game is not the same as knowing how the Yankees did last night or how they'll do tomorrow.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Hi again cladking. I have been reading a bit about a scientist who won the Noble Prize but his other ideas about how life began are so literally outlandish I realize with some of these people literally anything goes. He thought it possible that a spaceship came from outer space and left elements for life on the earth. I used to work for a firm that published science fiction. The idea that this quite notable scientist propounded such a ludicrous idea imo of course has really turned me around. I know there are those that will say oh yeah maybe it did happen that way .. And now I say to such ones, maybe I'll see ya, so long for now...

Which scientist?
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
I am aware of that theory but consider it unsatisfactory especially when people see verifiable real-world events that they shouldn't have been able to see.
I am not sure what you mean by theory. It is a fact that the alteration of brain chemistry or brain structure can cause vivid non-veridical experiences. Right?

There are a lot of stories about "people [seeing] verifiable real-world events". I have yet to see anything more substantive than stories.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
None of the scientists that are actually working on Abiogenesis, say anything about anything about UFO or spaceships.

Those that have considered extraterrestrial sources, referred to organic matters (organic matters as in biological compounds or molecules, like lipids, hydrocarbons, amino acids, any one of the 5 possible nucleobase molecules, carbohydrates…not cells, and not living organisms), that from asteroids, meteorites, comets, planetesimals, etc.

In 1969, two large meteorites (both made of largely carbonaceous chondrite) have crashed on different continents.

  • One in Chihuahua, Mexico, the Allende Meteorite (over 2 tonnes ).
  • The other, Murchison, Victoria, Australia, the Murchison Meteorite (100 kg).
No living cells and no living organisms were found in either meteorites. However, both meteorites showed abundance of organic evidence, of those “organic matters” that I have talked about.

The thing is that these organic matters were found preserved within meteorites, protected from terrestrial contamination and from cosmic radiation exposure.

Plus, the Allende Meteorite (at 4.567 billion years old) is over a hundred million years older than the Earth itself. While much of the Murchison Meteorite is roughly about the same age as the Allende Meteorite, HOWEVER, some grains of silicon carbide have been definitively dated to be 7 billion years old.



Amino acids are the most important biological compounds, as 22 different types of alpha amino acids, as they are the building blocks for proteins, hence these types of amino acids are known as “proteinogenic” amino acids. These 22 types existed naturally in life, as these can be found in genetic code. Of these 22 amino acids, 15 of these amino acids were found in the Murchison Meteorite.

There are actually over 500 different types of amino acids. Some of those found in the meteorites, don’t exist in nature on Earth, hence they are of extraterrestrial origins.

But here, is what do know: not as higher concentrations than the amino acids, purines and pyrimidines were also discovered, from the Murchison Meteorite.

If you don’t know these organic compounds are, they are base pair of the nucleobase molecules.

In purines, the pair is adenine & guanine.

In pyrimidines, the pair can be either cytosine & thymine for DNA, or cytosine & uracil for RNA.

Even more abundant is carboxylic acids, which is essential component to fatty acids, and fatty acids are essential to make up of lipids. And lipids are essential cell membranes.

With these evidence (the 2 meteorites), organic matters existing outside of the Earth itself, is a definite probability, hence cannot be dismissed.

When scientists are talking about extraterrestrial, they are not talking about ufo spaceships.

And btw, please answer my earlier question. Who is the scientist you’re referring to, about the ufo?
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
There are a lot of stories about "people [seeing] verifiable real-world events". I have yet to see anything more substantive than stories.
There is enough quantity, quality and consistency of ‘stories’ to make me believe it almost certainly occurs.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
A few billion years is a very long time so maybe life is something that escaped from UFO garbage but it's more likely it was transported here with the cosmic dust. The latter is much more poetic and potentially divine. It's also more likely since there was only a short window of time that the UFO garbage could have survived.
I didn't decide there is a possibility that a spaceship deposited some whatever to start life here. A highly esteemed scientist did. Easy to look up. His next question could have been why couldn't these aliens have wings to fly them here? So much grappling with all that! Better than board games for some...
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
I didn't decide there is a possibility that a spaceship deposited some whatever to start life here. A highly esteemed scientist did. Easy to look up. His next question could have been why couldn't these aliens have wings to fly them here? So much grappling with all that! Better than board games for some...

We're all looking at the same evidence so of course many people will arrive at the exact same hypothesis. Life could simply be ubiquitous and much older than the observed universe.

A lot of people with all the answers can't even imagine such things but this is what evidence suggests. I'm sure I don't know. But I'm nearly as sure that the concept that consciousness is irrelevant in a clockwork reality that is understood by reductionistic science is just flat out all wrong. Experiential knowledge is all that really counts and every fiber of my being screams that they are wrong.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
We're all looking at the same evidence so of course many people will arrive at the exact same hypothesis. Life could simply be ubiquitous and much older than the observed universe.

A lot of people with all the answers can't even imagine such things but this is what evidence suggests. I'm sure I don't know. But I'm nearly as sure that the concept that consciousness is irrelevant in a clockwork reality that is understood by reductionistic science is just flat out all wrong. Experiential knowledge is all that really counts and every fiber of my being screams that they are wrong.
I was looking at some videos. Mathematics of the sort that would fit into the process of evolution just don't work. not only improbable but virtually impossible. Let the logicians and mathematicians figure it out. (They can't.) That's one thing. Since I believe God is alive, He is before everything else, entities, beings, life, and so forth.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I was looking at some videos. Mathematics of the sort that would fit into the process of evolution just don't work. not only improbable but virtually impossible. Let the logicians and mathematicians figure it out. (They can't.)
What videos and math would that be?

100 bucks says that involves yet another strawman.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
There is some reason to believe this is a valid way to see change however species do not have "entropy". Not even individuals do. Every individual can excel or fail dependent almost solely on his consciousness and pure blind luck. The first individual to build a dam effectively caused a speciation event in Beavers.

The problem with thinking of "species" this way is the same problem that Darwin had; It ignores the fact that ALL life is individual. It's not a "squirrel" that scampers across the lawn, it's "George" or "Marilyn".
Entropy is a state variable, meaning any given state of matter defines a fixed and measurable amount of entropy. The state nature of entropy takes into account the subtleties; complexity, of individuality. In the chart of entropy values below, diamond; top right, has a very low entropy. Diamond is not a very complex state, but is perfect via its molecular simplicity. It is composed of just carbon atoms bonded to four other carbon atoms in this 3-D matrix, like one large 1ct. diamond molecule. There is little randomness to add much complexity; perfect diamond.

The human species lies within a range of entropic states, with a gap between the next lower entropy state; species. The entropic state S is like a finger print for any given state. Cells and humans are complex integrated states, so we also have a state value, albeit, this is much harder to measure and quantify due its integrated complexity. However, the entropic state logic still holds true.

If water goes from a liquid to a gas there is increase in entropy from 70 to 188.8. This is like forming a new species of water, with all different properties. Like liquid water and steam, apes and humans, share many genetic similarities, but there are also differences. Liquid water is usually measured at 25C and 1 atmosphere of pressure; room temperature or average state. At 30C, the entropy is slightly higher, but not anywhere near 188.8. The latter defines the start of a new water species, state; gas.

Entropy is one of the few laws of nature. Laws of nature are higher than just a random assumption theory. Entropy always naturally wants to increase. It has a sense of positive direction. This makes entropy unique. Humans are not content to stay homogenized with each other, or even stay one way all through life, since the call of wild; entropy, wants us to learn and become a higher state; body, mind and spirit. This drive also pulls life to higher states; evolution.

Standard_Molar_Entropy_Table_.png


A state variable is a mathematical representation of a system's status at a given moment, capturing all necessary information to describe the system's past, present, and future behavior. It serves as a critical component in control theory, particularly in optimal control settings, where it helps in formulating the system's dynamics and governing the decision-making processes to achieve desired outcomes.

Of all these state variables, internal energy, enthalpy, temperature, pressure, volume and entropy, only entropy wants to increase. Evolution by starting simple, and gaining complexity, shows the effect of the only naturally increasing state variable. The other can be made to increase but that requires process functions like heat and work.
 

cladking

Well-Known Member
Entropy is a state variable, meaning any given state of matter defines a fixed and measurable amount of entropy. The state nature of entropy takes into account the subtleties; complexity, of individuality. In the chart of entropy values below, diamond; top right, has a very low entropy. Diamond is not a very complex state, but is perfect via its molecular simplicity. It is composed of just carbon atoms bonded to four other carbon atoms in this 3-D matrix, like one large 1ct. diamond molecule. There is little randomness to add much complexity; perfect diamond.

The human species lies within a range of entropic states, with a gap between the next lower entropy state; species. The entropic state S is like a finger print for any given state. Cells and humans are complex integrated states, so we also have a state value, albeit, this is much harder to measure and quantify due its integrated complexity. However, the entropic state logic still holds true.

If water goes from a liquid to a gas there is increase in entropy from 70 to 188.8. This is like forming a new species of water, with all different properties. Like liquid water and steam, apes and humans, share many genetic similarities, but there are also differences. Liquid water is usually measured at 25C and 1 atmosphere of pressure; room temperature or average state. At 30C, the entropy is slightly higher, but not anywhere near 188.8. The latter defines the start of a new water species, state; gas.

Entropy is one of the few laws of nature. Laws of nature are higher than just a random assumption theory. Entropy always naturally wants to increase. It has a sense of positive direction. This makes entropy unique. Humans are not content to stay homogenized with each other, or even stay one way all through life, since the call of wild; entropy, wants us to learn and become a higher state; body, mind and spirit. This drive also pulls life to higher states; evolution.

Standard_Molar_Entropy_Table_.png




Of all these state variables, internal energy, enthalpy, temperature, pressure, volume and entropy, only entropy wants to increase. Evolution by starting simple, and gaining complexity, shows the effect of the only naturally increasing state variable. The other can be made to increase but that requires process functions like heat and work.

I don't doubt the laws of thermodynamics. Nor do I doubt they apply to most if not all systems.

But I do doubt they apply to abstractions like "humanity" and I'm quite confident they don't apply to any individual living thing because of free will or the ability to make choices. I once saw a snake try to devour a frog twice its size. The frog was bemused and the snake gave up. It was a poor choice and we all knew it except the snake.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
What videos and math would that be?

100 bucks says that involves yet another strawman.
I'm not a betting kind and I don't like to call people stupid, but if you think about it, "chances are" that the process as touted by biologists regarding evolution are very v-e-r-y and v-e-r-y unlikely to have happened as touted by many (not all) scientists. So you take care and do the best you can.
 

McBell

Unbound
I was looking at some videos. Mathematics of the sort that would fit into the process of evolution just don't work. not only improbable but virtually impossible. Let the logicians and mathematicians figure it out. (They can't.) That's one thing. Since I believe God is alive, He is before everything else, entities, beings, life, and so forth.
What videos are these?
Please provide links.
 
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