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Evolution My ToE

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
o_O Que? Seriously?
I don't know.

How many times did evolution occur, and how many species, and when exactly in history?

I am asking you. Virtually all evidence points to only one start of life on this planet. And basically all of science agrees with that. Ergo, that we all share common ancestry, necessarily.

You seem to indicate life has started independently several times. A sort of multiple abiogenesis.

I am asking if you are aware of any scientific paper or peer review that states that life started many times on this planet.

Ciao

- viole
 

ecco

Veteran Member
So, you're a Fundamentalist Creationist and a Trump Sheeple. That's not surprising.
Let's review. The theory of evolution of life says that man came from beasts and all life from 'simpler' lifeforms like bacteria, worms, bananas etc etc. Basically it is a fruity and animalistic debasing religion that degrades and insults God's created kind of man, made in His Own image! There is no evidence whatsoever, and all that has been offered here is a belief that DNA was the same with no evidence, and that the observed trait of adapting/evolving was responsible for all the amazing variety of life on earth, including man!!

If I were to take that logic, the observed growth of fingernails means that they would reach the moon in a few dozen centuries! Or observed rainfall in a downpour in Texas means that the world will be underwater in a few years! etc etc etc. Ridiculous.

More duck and dodge. I know that most Christians despise willful ignorance.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Guess I'm half way there...I don't believe you.
No problem, I'll go with God.
The problem is that you have no way of knowing if you are going with God. In fact if you could approach your beliefs without fear you would see that you are almost certainly going against God. When you continually call God a liar and try to tell him what he did it is pretty clear that you are not "going with God".
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I am asking you. Virtually all evidence points to only one start of life on this planet. And basically all of science agrees with that. Ergo, that we all share common ancestry, necessarily.

You seem to indicate life has started independently several times. A sort of multiple abiogenesis.

I am asking if you are aware of any scientific paper or peer review that states that life started many times on this planet.

Ciao

- viole
What is this obsession with science. Is science the only way to know truth? Please don't claim yes. That would not be true.

 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
I am referencing post#2.
Okay, thanks for clarifying. But I have to say, I am a little confused as to how your depiction of the work lines up with what you cited in that post. Specifically....

You stated: "A stick insect fossil in a layer with dinosaur fossils dating before 66 million years will automatically indicate the fossil must be older than 66 million years - which was done."​

I assume you're talking about THIS ARTICLE, which describes a specimen from 126 million years ago. To be more specific, the specimens are around 126 million years old.

Then you stated: "If other studies say that is wrong, and the stick insect fossil is younger - many millions of years after 66 million years ago, then how did it get buried in a layer with dinosaur fossils?"​

This is where I'm confused. First, I assume you're now referring to THIS ARTICLE and where it says "The age estimation of the phylogenetic tree suggests that most of the old lineages emerged after the dinosaurs became extinct 66 million years ago". If I have that right, then I suggest you read that carefully and look over the ACTUAL PAPER. When they say "the old lineages emerged after the dinosaurs became extinct", they're talking about the "Old World" lineages, e.g., those in Madagascar.

So to answer your question, there is no conflict. The specimen from the fossil record is indeed 126 million years old, and most of the Old World lineages emerged later (after the dinos became extinct).

It's important to keep in mind that "stick insect" refers to an entire taxonomic order, which contains multiple families. That's why it's possible for one lineage to have existed 126 million years ago, and other lineages emerge some 60 million years later.

You asked: "If the insect fossil is much younger, then why are the other fossils in that strata older, and not considered younger?"​

Because they're not the same species, genus, or even family.

I hope that helps.
 

dad

Undefeated
I was talking about how your fellow Christians despise willful ignorance.

But, I understand, you cannot address things that are painful to you.
Believing in creation as per the Scripture Jesus confirmed was true is anything but ignorance, it is the light of God.
Believing that you are kin to worms and came from the same relatives is deliberate belief.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Okay, thanks for clarifying. But I have to say, I am a little confused as to how your depiction of the work lines up with what you cited in that post. Specifically....

You stated: "A stick insect fossil in a layer with dinosaur fossils dating before 66 million years will automatically indicate the fossil must be older than 66 million years - which was done."​

I assume you're talking about THIS ARTICLE, which describes a specimen from 126 million years ago. To be more specific, the specimens are around 126 million years old.

Then you stated: "If other studies say that is wrong, and the stick insect fossil is younger - many millions of years after 66 million years ago, then how did it get buried in a layer with dinosaur fossils?"​

This is where I'm confused. First, I assume you're now referring to THIS ARTICLE and where it says "The age estimation of the phylogenetic tree suggests that most of the old lineages emerged after the dinosaurs became extinct 66 million years ago". If I have that right, then I suggest you read that carefully and look over the ACTUAL PAPER. When they say "the old lineages emerged after the dinosaurs became extinct", they're talking about the "Old World" lineages, e.g., those in Madagascar.

So to answer your question, there is no conflict. The specimen from the fossil record is indeed 126 million years old, and most of the Old World lineages emerged later (after the dinos became extinct).

It's important to keep in mind that "stick insect" refers to an entire taxonomic order, which contains multiple families. That's why it's possible for one lineage to have existed 126 million years ago, and other lineages emerge some 60 million years later.

You asked: "If the insect fossil is much younger, then why are the other fossils in that strata older, and not considered younger?"​

Because they're not the same species, genus, or even family.

I hope that helps.
Okay, thanks.
So when did the stick insect (Phasmatodea) evolve?
Would the earliest leaf insect have been after the dinosaur era, or during?
 

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
Okay, thanks.
So when did the stick insect (Phasmatodea) evolve?
From what I can tell from the phylogenomic paper, about 230 MYA.

fevo-07-00345-g002.jpg


Would the earliest leaf insect have been after the dinosaur era, or during?
During.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Glad I could help.


The one I posted was from the stick insect phylogenomic paper. Other phylogenomic papers will likely have their own unique charts too.
Oh. These are papers available only to scientists?
So the public cannot get access to these charts for their own personal research?
 
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