Nature is the garden and all of us live here within nature. The book of genesis is a man made story before the writers even knew what a heart beat is.
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Evolution of what?
- Thread starter Eli G
- Start date
TLK Valentine
Read the books that others would burn.
So which came first - Adam or the other animals?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
The animals as "Adam" probably did not exist as a real person but was part of a myth to teach lessons so as to refute the Babylonian creation narratives.
gnostic
The Lost One
Genesis 2:5 clearly stated there were no vegetation whatsoever…when Adam was created in 2:7.
That’s the exact opposite what Genesis 1:11-12 (vegetation, 3rd day) and 1:26-27 (humans, 6th day).
it is only after Adam was created, that God created plants, in 2:8-9.
Genesis 2 is not in alignment with Genesis 1.
This is exactly why I don’t trust creationists even when they are interpreting their own scriptures, as they are blinded to the inconsistencies that exist in 2 completely different creation myths.
How do you not see these?
5 when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no vegetation of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground, 6 but a stream would rise from the earth and water the whole face of the ground— 7 then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being. 8 And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9 Out of the ground the Lord God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
there were “no plant” life, “no vegetation”, PERIOD, before Adam was created. That’s the exact opposite to the order given in 1:11-12 & 1:26-27. Seriously, how do you not see that?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Here is what I see regarding Genesis 2 and the structure thereof: "Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth a and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. Then the Lord God formed man c from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being."
That's after the earth was made ready for vegetation.
So while it does not go into molecular detail and exact timing as to how it happened, it is clear (to me) that the first man was formed AFTER the earth was ready for growth. Plus the next verse says, "Now the Lord God had planted a garden in the east, in Eden; and there he put the man he had formed." So take it as you will. I believe that God made the earth ready for vegetation, made the man, and planted a garden and placed the man there.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
You are obviously free to believe that. I believe what the Bible says about how 'we' were created and what will happen to the earth.
Funny.
If you believed the bible, you would read it.
So what will happen?
Express the end all as you believe is true?
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I will. I like to start though with Revelation chapter 21:1-5. I'm sure you have access to a Bible, let me know when you read it. That is part of my hope. I look very much forward to that.
Bear Wild
Well-Known Member
This is a myth. It is not any more accurate description of what really occurred than the myth of Sky Woman for the Haudenosaunee of north America or the Norse creation myth. They are all equally valid to those who understand the myth as a story of relationship to the world. The myth you quote is no more valid than the others. Each give a description of how humans came into being to show the relationship of being a human to the rest of the world. To try and say this is how it actually happened is to completely miss the important meaning of the myth to the religion. To claim yours is any more correct other is false. You can say your myth has meaning in understanding your relationship to the world.
Simple comparison of relationship.
In a very basic synopsis Sky woman falls to the earth and the animals help create land for her on top of a turtle (thus turtle island) so she can live. In return she brings plants and created a garden for the well-being of all who live there. The relationship of humans to the rest of life is one of cooperation and reciprocity.
In a very basic synopsis Adam and Eve are made from clay and placed in a garden of Eden made by a god just for them. They are given dominion of all other life, but Eve eats forbidden fruit and is then banished to a wilderness and in order to eat she in which she is feel she must subdue to live.
Two stories of women in creation with different relationships to the land. On is a generous embrace of the land with reciprocity and the other a banishment to a hostile land which must be subdued. Personally, I prefer the Sky Woman myth much better than yours.
So, you need to stop trying to twist and manipulate a profound myth for its followers into something it was never intended to do. Or accept you do not understand the true meaning of the myth.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
First of all, it says that Adam was placed in the Garden. Beyond what the Bible says, I have no idea how he was placed and it is not for me to figure out now. Maybe I will learn more about that in the future. But it is clear to me that Adam was able to eat as he desired in that Garden. And that there was food available for him.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Am I ready for that? What do you mean by that? And please, after you answer that, do you know what it's about? Thank you. Then perhaps we can talk about it after you answer your own questions. And thanks again.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
So then would you say that whatever you think Adam was -- animal as you offer -- did these one(s) you say are animals come after Chimpanzees, etc. or maybe at the same time? I'd love to know what you think. Or rather what science you believe thinks. Thanks, if you will.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Of course we can interpret things differently, so I'm not saying our understanding will be the same. But here is what the Bible says about that, I think that's what you're asking: Genesis chapter 2.
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the air, and He brought them to the man to see what he would name each one. And whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20The man gave names to all the livestock, to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field. But for Adam no suitable helper was found."
It seems clear to me that animals were there before Adam was formed. It does not give a time sequence there in the second chapter such as on which day each was formed, but it does in the first chapter. Whether you believe it or not or agree with it or not, that's how I read it. Animals first. Then Adam.
Do you know what the chapter is about?
The unveiling.
The long sought house.
Audie
Veteran Member
" blind to inconsustency" = zero intellectual integrity
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I believe the creation accounts are teaching narratives to likely counter the Babylonian creation narrative, thus not meant to be taken literally.
Chimps and humans are animals.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
OK. I won't ask you what parts of the Bible you DO believe. I know you like the love your neighbor part. It also says to love God in those two commandments Jesus gave. Love God. and neighbor. The Bible says that Adam was made after the animals. Of course since you consider (as many obviously do) a story that is mythical, thank you for your forthright answer. Also it says, as you probably know, that man was to oversee the amimals. But thanks/
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
you are literally responding to a post that demonstrates the opposite.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
People should really stop pretending that the "golden rule", which the "love your neighbor" part is just a variation on, is exclusive to christianity or even original to christianity. It isn't.
The golden rule, in its many variations, is to one extend or another a part of every single human culture / society as far back as we can see all over the world.
Such a rule is just an obvious expression of what it means to live in, and be a part of, a social group of which the survival and prosperity literally depends on some form of cooperation.