Evolution of what?

[TLK Valentine]

That is likely true, but the question is if you can explain to someone why you believe in God and evolution. I realize the explanation may be that evolution is reasonable and logical and shown by scientists to be so, but what about God? How would you go about explaining to someone that God exists?

That's tricky - you might be able to make a reasoned and logical argument that supports a "god," but that's not enough, is it?

You're going to want to prove that a specific God exists... good luck with that.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's tricky - you might be able to make a reasoned and logical argument that supports a "god," but that's not enough, is it?

You're going to want to prove that a specific God exists... good luck with that.

Well, without getting too detailed-- again I wonder if comments about God that are posed here by some can be referenced to those who believe the theory of evolution and also claim to be Christian or Jewish. Why do they believe in God?

 

[shunyadragon]

That is likely true, but the question is if you can explain to someone why you believe in God and evolution. I realize the explanation may be that evolution is reasonable and logical and shown by scientists to be so, but what about God? How would you go about explaining to someone that God exists?

God Created our physical existence, the evolution of life and the Natural Laws. The observations and conclusions of science are in harmony with How God Created everything. God does not leave the vast amount of evidence for science to discover i contradiction with how he Created our existence. The ancient view of Creation in the Pentateuch is the view of those who write it thousands of years ago and in total contradiction with the evidence..

 

[YoursTrue]

That's tricky - you might be able to make a reasoned and logical argument that supports a "god," but that's not enough, is it?

You're going to want to prove that a specific God exists... good luck with that.

Some will say why they believe in evolution, but not so about God if they say they are Christians or Jews.

 

[shunyadragon]

Some will say why they believe in evolution, but not so about God if they say they are Christians or Jews.

Some say?!?! By far most Jews support the sciences of evolution. Many Jews are atheists and agnostics.

Jewish atheism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jewish atheism refers to the atheism of people who are ethnically and (at least to some extent) culturally Jewish. Contrary to popular belief, the term "Jewish atheism" is not a contradiction because Jewish identity encompasses not only religious components, but also ethnic and cultural ones. Jewish law's emphasis on descent through the mother means that even religiously conservative Orthodox Jewish authorities would accept an atheist born to a Jewish mother as fully Jewish.[1]

Jewish secularism, which describes Jews who do not explicitly reject the existence of God but also do not believe it is an important part of their Jewishness, has a long tradition in the United States.[2] A 2013 study conducted by the Pew Research Center found that 62% of self-described American Jews say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, while just 15% say it is mainly a matter of religion. Even among Jews by religion, 55% say being Jewish is mainly a matter of ancestry and culture, while 66% say it is not necessary to believe in God to be Jewish

Among Christians in the USA most believe in EC among those that believe in evolution

Christian Views on Creation and Evolution | CCU Online

Understanding the origins and beliefs of creationism and evolution. Exploring secular theories on evolution and different Christian views on creation.

www.ccu.edu

Evolutionary Creationists (EC)​

Some Christians embrace central mainstream conclusions from both physical and life sciences (e.g., old Earth and evolution). These Christians support the stance known as evolutionary creationism or BioLogos. They believe that God used the process of evolution as the means by which life developed and diversified on Earth.

According to this view, God is the ultimate cause behind the evolutionary process, guiding and sustaining it to bring about His purposes. ECs see no conflict between their faith and the scientific understanding of evolution. According to BioLogos in What is Evolutionary Creation? they agree that, “God made people and that humans are biologically related to other creatures, but they differ on how best to interpret the early chapters of Genesis”.

Respond to post #1.063

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well, without getting too detailed-- again I wonder if comments about God that are posed here by some can be referenced to those who believe the theory of evolution and also claim to be Christian or Jewish. Why do they believe in God?

Probably for the same reasons anyone else believes in God. For example, why do you believe?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Some will say why they believe in evolution, but not so about God if they say they are Christians or Jews.

It's a lot easier to explain rational beliefs than irrational ones.

 

[YoursTrue]

Probably for the same reasons anyone else believes in God. For example, why do you believe?

I do not believe in evolution, so I'm not the one to ask because the question is directed towards those who believe in God AND evolution. They're the ones to ask why they believe in God. They've already explained why they believe in evolution. They are interestingly very silent on this. Perhaps it's just a bit too delicate for them to approach, but you might ask those who believe in both God and evolution. Thanks.

 

[YoursTrue]

It's a lot easier to explain rational beliefs than irrational ones.

OK, I don't want to push that towards those that claim belief in evolution and also God since I don't believe in the theory of evolution anymore. It's best you ask them if their belief in God is irrational as you seem to imply it is. But I'm not the one to ask about this. The question is directed towards those that believe in evolution and God. Thanks.

 

[John53]

I do not believe in evolution, so I'm not the one to ask because the question is directed towards those who believe in God AND evolution. They're the ones to ask why they believe in God. They've already explained why they believe in evolution. They are interestingly very silent on this. Perhaps it's just a bit too delicate for them to approach, but you might ask those who believe in both God and evolution. Thanks.

Why do you want other people doing your dirty work?

 

[Subduction Zone]

OK, I don't want to push that towards those that claim belief in evolution and also God since I don't believe in the theory of evolution anymore. It's best you ask them if their belief in God is irrational as you seem to imply it is. But I'm not the one to ask about this. The question is directed towards those that believe in evolution and God. Thanks.

It is too bad that you are too afraid to learn about the theory of evolution. Your posts tell us that you won't let yourself understand. If you understood the theory you would see that there is no need to "believe in it". You would know that it is a fact. Why don't you learn? Are you afraid that if you knew the truth that you could not longer be a Christian?

 

[YoursTrue]

It is too bad that you are too afraid to learn about the theory of evolution. Your posts tell us that you won't let yourself understand. If you understood the theory you would see that there is no need to "believe in it". You would know that it is a fact. Why don't you learn? Are you afraid that if you knew the truth that you could not longer be a Christian?

I keep telling you that I DO understand the theory of evolution. You don't believe me, obviously. To understand it does not mean it's true or that I believe/think it's true. So that's settled that I understand the theory. If you don't want to inquire of those here who profess belief in God and evolution, I understand that, too. But so far I have not seen an answer by those who claim to believe both (God and evolution).
P.S. While I understand the theory, it does not convince me that humans have evolved differently from bonobos and chimpanzees in intellect and thinking ability.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I keep telling you that I DO understand the theory of evolution. You don't believe me, obviously. To understand it does not mean it's true or that I believe/think it's true. So that's settled that I understand the theory. If you don't want to inquire of those here who profess belief in God and evolution, I understand that, too. But so far I have not seen an answer by those who claim to believe both (God and evolution).
P.S. While I understand the theory, it does not convince me that humans have evolved differently from bonobos and chimpanzees in intellect and thinking ability.

You can keep claiming that but your posts and questions tell us that you have no clue. Your actions speak far louder than your words.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

God Created our physical existence, the evolution of life and the Natural Laws. The observations and conclusions of science are in harmony with How God Created everything. God does not leave the vast amount of evidence for science to discover i contradiction with how he Created our existence. The ancient view of Creation in the Pentateuch is the view of those who write it thousands of years ago and in total contradiction with the evidence..

Exact. If taken literally, the people who authored those texts for example also believed that stars were these things that could actually "fall from the sky" to earth.
Clearly these people didn't have a clue what stars were. Why on earth would anyone get their scientific facts from them?

As for how I see abrahamic scripture: I view it pretty much like any and all scriptures, including other tales of history - even including star wars and alike.

It's story telling and story telling is a very powerful tool to communicate ideas about "the human condition". About human inner struggles between good and evil. Altruism / the greater good vs selfishness and how they can also overlap. The struggles of human life, the moral dilemma's we encounter, the love of beauty etc.

When seen in that light, I can find much value in the bible just like I can find much value in Egyptian or Greek mythology. All touch on the same universal subjects.

The virtues of patience and altruism, the horrors of selfishness, the pettyness of jealousy etc.
It's wisdom about human psychology and human inner struggles. It's not knowledge about geology, biology, chemistry, physics,...

View it in the correct light and surely you'll be able to find moral lessons in there. And use your own moral intuitions also... Because all these tales are products of the times they were produced in. Many of them will thus also contain morally reprehensible stuff.

To take any of these things as unquestionable dogma, is simply a terrible idea.

 

[Audie]

I keep telling you that I DO understand the theory of evolution. You don't believe me, obviously. To understand it does not mean it's true or that I believe/think it's true. So that's settled that I understand the theory. If you don't want to inquire of those here who profess belief in God and evolution, I understand that, too. But so far I have not seen an answer by those who claim to believe both (God and evolution).
P.S. While I understand the theory, it does not convince me that humans have evolved differently from bonobos and chimpanzees in intellect and thinking ability.

You make it so obvious that you've
only a very sketchy distorted idea about
evolution.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I keep telling you that I DO understand the theory of evolution.

You keep saying that yes. But everytime you say something about evolution, you demonstrate you don't.

You don't believe me, obviously.

Because you continue to demonstrate that we shouldn't believe you.

For example, every time you say something silly like "but they remain gorrilas", we know you don't understand evolution. You wouldn't say such ignorant things if you did.
It's the equivalent of saying you understand gravity and then argue against it by saying "but hammers float in the space station". The very statement demonstrates you don't understand gravity. It's the same type of mistake.

To understand it does not mean it's true or that I believe/think it's true. So that's settled that I understand the theory.

No. You claiming you understand it does not mean it's "settled" that you understand it.

 

[shunyadragon]

Many evolutionists are so obsessed with the idea of a chain of related animals that they forget that the environment around them must have evolved along with or faster than these animals' supposed biological evolution, or else they would not have survived in a hostile environment like the one that suggests a universe in formation.

Life did not exist when the universe formed. Life only began and evolved when there was an ideal environment on a planet like the earth,

Why do evolutionists limit their evolutionary theory only to animals, and forget about the environment that also had to be transformed to welcome them upon their "evolutionary" arrival?

The scientists do not limit the sciences of evolution of life to only animals.

For example: when did the water appear in the evolution of the animals?

Water has always been here in the history of the earth. Life began after the oceans formed and continental drift began with thermal vents about 3.5 t0 4 billion years ago.

You apparently lack the basic elementary and high school level of science.

 

[shunyadragon]

I keep telling you that I DO understand the theory of evolution. You don't believe me, obviously. To understand it does not mean it's true or that I believe/think it's true. So that's settled that I understand the theory. If you don't want to inquire of those here who profess belief in God and evolution, I understand that, too. But so far I have not seen an answer by those who claim to believe both (God and evolution).

If you want to understand those that believe in God and God's natural evolution respond to my previous posts.

P.S. While I understand the theory, it does not convince me that humans have evolved differently from bonobos and chimpanzees in intellect and thinking ability.

If you understood the sciences of evolution why do you continually make false statements concerning science.

 

[YoursTrue]

You can keep claiming that but your posts and questions tell us that you have no clue. Your actions speak far louder than your words.

I have a pretty good idea of the theory. No one knows everything about all the details of the theory. I ask questions as many people would. So maybe it's you that needs to observe the ninth commandment here.

 

[YoursTrue]

You can keep claiming that but your posts and questions tell us that you have no clue. Your actions speak far louder than your words.

So far no response from those who believe evolution and that God exists. All quiet on that front.