Evolution theory turns colleges into hellholes of depression

[MagickIsChaos]

I do not pretend to know whether eveloution or creationism is real. Creationism does not match reality and scientific theory assumes reality is real. I tend to lean towards evelotion but I honsetly do not care if you beilive it is true or not. However if a person enters depression becuase he has doubts about his faith it seems he was leaning on it to much to begin with wich is a bad psychological activity.

If we want to stop teaching theories in school then we cannot even discuss gravity! And for those who say it's just a theory the Abrahamic relgions are not even supportable enough to be a theory!

Let people choose what they beilieve if evolution was such an unbelievable theory than no one would be affected by it....

What we could talk about is how the Abrahamic relgions have caused more wars than any other type of relgions in history.

But let's not and just say that just becuase some students cannot handle their own emotions that a theory cannot be voiced.

(I sure hope that no white farmers where depressed when people where discussing the Abolistionist movements.)

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

I do not pretend to know whether eveloution or creationism is real. Creationism does not match reality and scientific theory assumes reality is real. I tend to lean towards evelotion but I honsetly do not care if you beilive it is true or not. However if a person enters depression becuase he has doubts about his faith it seems he was leaning on it to much to begin with wich is a bad psychological activity.

If we want to stop teaching theories in school then we cannot even discuss gravity! And for those who say it's just a theory the Abrahamic relgions are not even supportable enough to be a theory!

Let people choose what they beilieve if evolution was such an unbelievable theory than no one would be affected by it....

What we could talk about is how the Abrahamic relgions have caused more wars than any other type of relgions in history.

But let's not and just say that just becuase some students cannot handle their own emotions that a theory cannot be voiced.

(I sure hope that no white farmers where depressed when people where discussing the Abolistionist movements.)

Want to have any knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe, including people choosing?

Want to accept that subjectivity, expressing your emotions, forming an opinion, is valid?

Then you need creationism.

You could just rely on common discourse that you use in daily life, because common discourse uses creationist logic. But without formal acknowledgement that freedom is real on an intellectual level, and acceptance that subjectivity is valid, then evolution theory is going to encroach on that, and surpress your right to express your emotions and form opinions.

So you see creationism is a neccessary thing to protect very fundamental things. The question is are you going to be wishy washy doubting free will is even real at all your entire life, or are you going to accept the obvious fact that freedom is real and relevant in the universe, and develop that knowledge in your personal and intellectual life?

 

[MagickIsChaos]

Want to have any knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe, including people choosing?

Want to accept that subjectivity, expressing your emotions, forming an opinion, is valid?

Then you need creationism.

You could just rely on common discourse that you use in daily life, because common discourse uses creationist logic. But without formal acknowledgement that freedom is real on an intellectual level, and acceptance that subjectivity is valid, then evolution theory is going to encroach on that, and surpress your right to express your emotions and form opinions.

So you see creationism is a neccessary thing to protect very fundamental things. The question is are you going to be wishy washy doubting free will is even real at all your entire life, or are you going to accept the obvious fact that freedom is real and relevant in the universe, and develop that knowledge in your personal and intellectual life?

No I just recognize I do not have free will but I do not give a crap. No point in worrying about something I cannot change.

 

[metis]

No I just recognize I do not have free will but I do not give a crap. No point in worrying about something I cannot change.

If no one can change, then why do you post here?

 

[MagickIsChaos]

If no one can change, then why do you post here?

I do not say people cannot change, we are set to change just as I am set to post this message and I do not actually care if others change I use this forum in allowing others to see my viewpoint and to see others viewpoints.

 

[metis]

I do not say people cannot change, we are set to change just as I am set to post this message and I do not actually care if others change I use this forum in allowing others to see my viewpoint and to see others viewpoints.

But if we are all preprogrammed, then why would you or any of us feel any compulsion to post anything or read anything? Plus your viewpoint isn't really your viewpoint if you take the predestinationist position. And then if we sin, God must want us to sin if He programmed us, right?

Na-- cannot buy.

 

[MagickIsChaos]

But if we are all preprogrammed, then why would you or any of us feel any compulsion to post anything or read anything? Plus your viewpoint isn't really your viewpoint if you take the predestinationist position. And then if we sin, God must want us to sin if He programmed us, right?

Na-- cannot buy.

Nope that school of thought can be applicable to science after all there is no random chance in calculation, when a neuron fires in my brain it will go to a specific neuron there is no chance. I feel compiled to write on this forum becuase I have had conditioning from this 'reality' to enjoy theology.

I also cannot beilieve in a loving and kind omnipotent god and not beilieve in free will, that is a paradox.. A loving and kind omnipotent god would, as you said, literately have to think "I know if I make this guy exist I'll end up letting him be tortured forever.... Sounds like fun!" and make my soul.

Therefore if predestination is true then there is an evil omnipotent deity out there that wishes to have an elite few he created knowing would worship him forever and a lesser class that would be tortured forever, or there is no omnipotent deity....

Also in christianity given that the messiah coming was set in stone, the three years of feast and three years of famine, and revelations is set in stone.... I think the concept of an all loving deity kind of defeats its purpose.....

I of course could be wrong, but that's the conclusions that I draw based on the evidence given to me.

 

[asier9]

It's not a crazy notion.

• Darwinian evolution, properly understood, entails atheism.
• Atheism, properly understood, entails nihilism.
• Nihilism is a depressing worldview.
• Thus, Darwinian evolution leads to nihilism, which leads to depression.

Not only is it not a crazy notion, it seems like a very logical notion to me.

The only item that I would disagree with in the above is the notion that Darwinian evolution, properly understood, entails atheism. True it implies seemingly random transmutation but this in no way can be taken to imply a dysteleological universe, for the simple reason that science can make no comment at all on final causality. Its concern is strictly in the realm of efficient causation. When people use Darwinism to support their atheism they are imposing their own extra-scientific beliefs that stem from their accepted worldview, which I've taken to call one's mythological commitment to stress the point that all worldviews must necessarily involve extra-scientific beliefs, i.e. beliefs which are not subject to being quantified and which consequently can't be empirically verified.

I personally don't believe that natural selection through random mutation can account for the great periodic explosions in life's diversity. In fact when we look at Darwin's finches we don't see mutation at all but rather rather different timing in genes that act as switches for other genes. So no doubt in their predilection to believe in a dysteleological universe many materialists have rushed to claim more for Darwinism than the theory actually offers, but the theory itself neither supports or refutes either thesism or atheism.

A really fantastic book that is too often ignored is Etienne Gilson's From Aristotle To Darwin And Back Again: A Journey In Final Causality, Species And Evolution.

 

[asier9]

Wrong. Many of the world's leading biologists and geneticists are theists, and they have no issue whatsoever reconciling their theist with understanding of evolutionary theory.


Wrong again, and I'm begining to suspect this "properly understood" caveat is going to be your "no-true scotsman-esque get-out-fargument-free card". "Oh, so you're a theist who accepts evolution? Well you don't properly understand evolution, then". Oh, you're an atheist that isn't a nihilist? Well you don't properly understand atheism, then".


Personal opinion, not fact. I see many theistic views as being depressing - the concept of original sin, for example.


As has been made clear, you are not qualified to dictate what is logical and what is not. Your views, and your arguments in favour of them, are woefully irrational and poorly thought-out.

Although I wouldn't say many, certainly some very notable biologists are theists. This is largely because the discipline itself discourages theists for entering it. Few people love it enough to want to deal with the constant prejudice and the irrational bias of their colleagues.

However it is a fact that nihilism properly understood is depressing. It is only that cognitive dissonance allows any materialist to accept that the affects of the accidents of their brain chemistry are substantially meaningful. Clearly the logical conclusion must be the opposite. Nevertheless it still feels meaningful and this allows many materialists to live as if they really were--and by they here I mean their sentiments and moral inclinations. As for the latter part of that comment this is only because you don't actually understand what original sin is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The only item that I would disagree with in the above is the notion that Darwinian evolution, properly understood, entails atheism.

Atheism does not inherently lead to nihilism, and, very frequently, those who believe nihilism is depressing do not understand it, misunderstand it, and have difficulties with trying to grasp that people can and do live satisfying and fulfilling lives while believing there is nothing inherent in the meaning and purpose of life. Existentialists also face such notions of people thinking it's "depressing," but those people get caught up on nothingness and do not see past it.

 

[leibowde84]

More College Freshmen Report Having Felt Depressed
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/us/more-college-freshmen-report-having-felt-depressed.html?_r=0

The prediction of creationists in the early 20th century of evolution theory bringing "hell to the highschool", turns out true.

With evolution theory you are creating a study environment in which any knowledge about how things are chosen in the universe is discarded, and with that any subjectivity about what made the decisions turn out the way they do is discarded as well. No room is provided for subjectivity at all, hence students become depressed.

Most significantly at Harvard, where the predominance of atheism is the largest. That hellhole where 50 percent of students become seriously depressed during their studentcareer, should be closed down as a health hazard for mental health.

Can you provide the quote where the article mentions evolution as the cause? I read the article, but must have missed that part. Or are you just being blatantly dishonest?

 

[leibowde84]

So what. 1+1=2, if you take away all knowledge about how things are chosen, you take away all subjectivity in regards to what makes those decisions turn out the way they do as well. So with throwing out creationism, you throw out subjectivity as well, and that results in depression.

This is not true.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Atheism does not inherently lead to nihilism, and, very frequently, those who believe nihilism is depressing do not understand it, misunderstand it, and have difficulties with trying to grasp that people can and do live satisfying and fulfilling lives while believing there is nothing inherent in the meaning and purpose of life. Existentialists also face such notions of people thinking it's "depressing," but those people get caught up on nothingness and do not see past it.

I am an existentialist and i find it a very comforting philosophy.

And existential psychology is great at treating depression.

 

[Shad]

Can you provide the quote where the article mentions evolution as the cause? I read the article, but must have missed that part. Or are you just being blatantly dishonest?

It doesn't. He made it up as a strawman to knock down.

 

[leibowde84]

It doesn't. He made it up as a strawman to knock down.

More like a "straw man offering himself up to get a back hand slapped in the jaw" argument.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

It is only that cognitive dissonance allows any materialist to accept that the affects of the accidents of their brain chemistry are substantially meaningful. Clearly the logical conclusion must be the opposite.

People simply use common discourse, and they have no idea at all on an intellectual level, how that common discourse functions. So they use creationist logic in common discourse, for example they will know to regard it as a subjective issue what somebody feels, and may try to have a tender judgement in making an opinion on it, but intellectually they will just say that emotions are electrochemical processes in the brain which can be measured with an mri scanner, without aiming for any tender judgement whatsoever.

 

[Yerda]

People simply use common discourse, and they have no idea at all on an intellectual level, how that common discourse functions. So they use creationist logic in common discourse, for example they will know to regard it as a subjective issue what somebody feels, and may try to have a tender judgement in making an opinion on it, but intellectually they will just say that emotions are electrochemical processes in the brain which can be measured with an mri scanner, without aiming for any tender judgement whatsoever.

Mohammad, is there anything else you'd like to talk about? I'm sure we can get around to common discourse and choosing again at a later time.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Can you provide the quote where the article mentions evolution as the cause? I read the article, but must have missed that part. Or are you just being blatantly dishonest?

I believe I already dealt with your nonsense in the beginning of this topic. The article suggests various causes. The article is wrong about the causes suggested, and right about the increase in depression. The real cause is the rejection of subjectivity caused by popularizing evolution theory. There is simply no emotional development in an environment where subjectivity, like belief in God, or the human soul, is ridiculed because of it being subjectivie.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Evolution isn't depressing, and college isn't depressing.
What is depressing is graduating and realizing there is hardly any jobs around that aren't what you could get before you even went back to college in the first place.

 

[leibowde84]

I believe I already dealt with your nonsense in the beginning of this topic. The article suggests various causes. The article is wrong about the causes suggested, and right about the increase in depression. The real cause is the rejection of subjectivity caused by popularizing evolution theory. There is simply no emotional development in an environment where subjectivity, like belief in God, or the human soul, is ridiculed because of it being subjectivie.

So, you are using an article that, literally, doesn't even mention any chance of a relation to evolution as your entire support, beyond a mere speculative argument which blatantly has nothing to do with the theory of evolution? And, you don't see the obvious problem? You just expect people to take your word and an extremely flimsy/speculative/"subjective" (lol) argument to join you in jumping to the conclusion that, without any supporting evidence, evolution is randomly to blame.

You never cease to amaze me, buddy. You must be exhausted.