EVOLUTION, what a lie.

[YmirGF]

Your absolutely right, there isn't any "proof" for ToE, but there is insurmountable evidence. And once again science does not deal with proofs it deals with evidence. And science draws conclusions from the evidence it gathers. Evolution is a fact, it's really not even up for debate at this point.

That is the troublesome aspect to Fatty's thinking. There is absolutely no doubt in scientific circles in regards to the Theory of Evolution. That makes his/her/its charges that the Theory is somehow questionable curious, to say the least.

It is just sad watch brilliant people trying to get through the Muslimspeak intellectual filter. It isn't possible. Remember, none of what Fatihah is talking about is about the Theory of Evolution because it is really about the probability that the Qur'an contains errors and that is an awkward position for him/her/it to be in considering the vast preponderance of evidence in favor of the Theory of Evolution. In short, Muslims have a lot riding on the Theory of Evolution being wrong. In fact, they have their entire religion staked on it. It's a pretty poor bet, but it's all they have.

 

[JMorris]

that wont stop him from blathering on and on and on and on.

"There's the statement. Wheres the proof?"

get used to that statement, its what you will see the most from him

 

[slave2six]

Scientific theories cannot be based on religious scriptures because you cannot empirically and objectively measure the role that the supernatural plays in the world. However, if you ask me, even though scientific theories objectively explain reality without bias, they cannot account for the religious experiences and innate knowledge of individuals who experience religion.

Unless you're talking about things like Temporal Lobe Epilepsy...

Actually, there have been many experiments on "split brain" patients that reveal how the left brain interpreter can make up stories and belief. In one experiment, for example, when the word walk was presented only to the right side of a patient's brain, he got up and started walking. When he was asked why he did this, the left brain (where language is stored and where the word walk was not presented) quickly created a reason for the action: "I wanted to go and get a Coke."

There is an entire section called "The Believing Brain" in Michael Gazzaniga's The Ethical Brain which make it clear that much of what we believe, and why we believe, is all formulated in the brain and that we are simply wired to need explanations. When there is no data to lead to a logical conclusion, we invent our own conclusions. In short, we believe what we want to believe.

Every religious experience can be traced to a person's neurological activity.

 

[Ghostaka]

The conclusions you are trying to draw from the present evidence of evolution cannot be used to deny that there is a Creator as some people here are attempting to do. This is because there are things that don't match up in ToE. Why do you think it is called a THEORY? Why do I say this? Because of the point/question I proposed earlier. Is there a genetic mutation every time a child is born to cause unique fingerprints? How does that work; especially since every single human being has a different one including TWINS.

That is the troublesome aspect to Fatty's thinking. There is absolutely no doubt in scientific circles in regards to the Theory of Evolution. That makes his/her/its charges that the Theory is somehow questionable curious, to say the least.

It is just sad watch brilliant people trying to get through the Muslimspeak intellectual filter. It isn't possible. Remember, none of what Fatihah is talking about is about the Theory of Evolution because it is really about the probability that the Qur'an contains errors and that is an awkward position for him/her/it to be in considering the vast preponderance of evidence in favor of the Theory of Evolution. In short, Muslims have a lot riding on the Theory of Evolution being wrong. In fact, they have their entire religion staked on it. It's a pretty poor bet, but it's all they have.

What did I tell you about performing "drive-by"s ?

Can't anyone see what this person is doing? Every time there is a grand misunderstanding between Muslims and Athiests in a thread (like what just happended) you quickly come a long and try to destroy any form of agreement there was earlier in the discussion. Every thread has a similar comment from you YmirGF. I cannot stop thinking that you were serious about being here to merely "talk against Islam" as you yourself admitted. That is what sad is.

that wont stop him from blathering on and on and on and on.

"There's the statement. Wheres the proof?"

get used to that statement, its what you will see the most from him

Less like YmirGF but more discourteous; same goes for you :sarcastic.

Peace be upon you.

 

[OmarKhayyam]

Why do you think it is called a THEORY?

ANOTHER ignorant Muslim! Don't you guys learn ANYTHING about science?

Look it up! The SCIENTIFIC definition. We are talking science here.

As for fingerprints PW explained that one. IF you had actually READ it. But no, cant be infecting your mind with all that Western scientific anti-god stuff.

Oh wait, sorry. We are talking to muslims.:sad4:

Scratch the science reference.

 

[Fatihah]

That is because you are not looking up the scientific definition of the word, theory.

Here, read these:

Scientific theory - Simple English Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

define: Scientific Theory - Google Search

Definition of Scientific Theory

If you read only the first section of each of those links, you should understand what is meant when scientists describe a 'theory'. It should only take you five minutes.

But if you can't be bothered, I'll explain here:

In science, a theory is a description which best describes the observable phenomenon of the world. It has been tested countless times and found to hold true for each test. In essence, a theory is the single best explanation for the natural phenomenon it describes.

Scientific theories cannot be based on religious scriptures because you cannot empirically and objectively measure the role that the supernatural plays in the world. However, if you ask me, even though scientific theories objectively explain reality without bias, they cannot account for the religious experiences and innate knowledge of individuals who experience religion.


If you wish to understand evolution, then read this. Please realise that you do not have to agree with the theory to understand what it is saying. It does make logical sense, and if you disagree, that does not mean that you are being illogical. Just that you know there is a better explanation which you cannot affirm through the scientific method.

My main point here, though, is that before you voice your disagreement, it would be wise to KNOW what you are disagreeing with. Otherwise, it makes you look slightly foolish.

Here is my explanation from a few pages back:

Response: Right. And the definition is made up. The definition should be found in a dictionary... But it's not. Therefore, it is made up.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Autodidact]This one:

has nothing to do with JMorris. It's neither by him nor about him. You have made not one but two allegations against others in this thread, neither of which you can show to be true. Yet you refuse to withdraw them.(End quote)

Response: That's not post 1519 either.

(/Quote Autodidact)
JMorris is right. You're a liar.(End quote)

Response: Likewise.

 

[Fatihah]

Fatinah: Define Proof? Based on the posts I have seen from you so far you are saying that nothing which can be posted, cited, or linked to can possibly constitute proof. Am I wrong? Or is your standard of proof so high that nothing can possibly be considered "proof?" There is nothing in life that is absolutely certain beyond tautologies. But it takes a funny sort of person to doubt gravity the same way that they doubt alien abduction.

What someone else saw isn't proof, if they can't show it to you? So the Qu'ran is not proof of Allah because you can't show me the miracles that are described within? I mean can you show me a cleft moon?


What exactly about ToE is it that you find "unprovable?" Really? Is it evolution? You can show evolution to yourself if you are willing to risk imprisonment for violating international law. All you have to do is find a nearly extinct species with a recessive trait and kill off all members of the species which do not have the recessive trait. *Suddenly* all members of a species now have a trait that they formerly did not. *Poof* Evolution in action.

Is it natural selection? Proving this one to yourself takes a little more time (something I doubt you would actually do since you are already convinced it wouldn't work), but is still able to be done in a single life time. Take a bunch of long-haired bunny rabbits (with short hair as a recessive trait). Move to the equator. Breed rabbits for 60 years. After a certain point all of the rabbits will become short-haired. The rabbits will have preferentially selected the more optimal short-haired (recessive) trait over the course of time. *Poof* Natural selection in action.


MTF

Response: Proof is something that is shown to be true based on factual evidence. Telling someone that ToE is true because a "link" said so is not proof. Saying the ToE is true because some scientists said it's true is not proof. It's really not that hard to understand. Simply saying something is true is not actual proof that it is. For someone to suggest otherwise is absurd, and you know this already.

 

[Fatihah]

Science doesn't deal with proof, it deals with evidence.

Response: That being the case, ToE has no "proof" that it's true. It's a theory that contains factual evidence that supports one another, however, the conclusion can not be determined to be true. That's what a theory is. Any truthful scientists will tell you that. Those who say otherwise are those who wish to believe that it's true.

 

[Ghostaka]

ANOTHER ignorant Muslim! Don't you guys learn ANYTHING about science?

Oh wow, another ignorant Atheist... so How do you pass high school and get accepted into a decent university wither learning "anything about science" ay ?

Look it up! The SCIENTIFIC definition. We are talking science here.

It does not invalidate my previous post.

As for fingerprints PW explained that one. IF you had actually READ it. But no, cant be infecting your mind with all that Western scientific anti-god stuff.

In what way would "Western scientific anti-god stuff" infect my mind? FYI I actually READ it. I did not find that her comment aided your points in any way. Did you read it?

Fingerprints are just a reflection of that uniqueness. And yes, it is wonderful that Creator set up the system by which this came to be.

According to the "brand" of evolution (the A-team is propagating), only something that ensured survival would pass on to the next generation therefore fingerprints cannot be explained in those terms. PW is correct in referring to a Creator.

Oh wait, sorry. We are talking to muslims.:sad4:

Yes you are. Apology accepted LOL .

Scratch the science reference.

NB. You did not make any scientific references yourself.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Fatihah]

Response: And mine is that you insist on holding on to a belief that you know that you can't prove and there's no proof for it. Unfortunately, your pride won't get you to say so because your intent is to prove yourself right and not as to whether or not you actually are right. There is nothing wrong with being wrong.

Your absolutely right, there isn't any "proof" for ToE, but there is insurmountable evidence. And once again science does not deal with proofs it deals with evidence. And science draws conclusions from the evidence it gathers. Evolution is a fact, it's really not even up for debate at this point.[/QUOTE]

Response: You're contridicting yourself. You just said:

"Your absolutely right, there isn't any "proof" for ToE, but there is insurmountable evidence."

But you concluded with:

"Evolution is a fact, it's really not even up for debate at this point".

That's a contridiction. Something can't be shown to be a fact without proof.

 

[Fatihah]

[QUOTE Ghostaka]Oh wow, another ignorant Atheist... so How do you pass high school and get accepted into a decent university wither learning "anything about science" ay ?

It does not invalidate my previous post.(End quote)

Response: Yes brother, they've invented new words. There is no such thing as a scientific definition of "theory", the proof is the simple fact that no dictionary on the face of the planet has this definition. Therefore, the definition is made up.

 

[Fatihah]

That is the troublesome aspect to Fatty's thinking. There is absolutely no doubt in scientific circles in regards to the Theory of Evolution. That makes his/her/its charges that the Theory is somehow questionable curious, to say the least.

It is just sad watch brilliant people trying to get through the Muslimspeak intellectual filter. It isn't possible. Remember, none of what Fatihah is talking about is about the Theory of Evolution because it is really about the probability that the Qur'an contains errors and that is an awkward position for him/her/it to be in considering the vast preponderance of evidence in favor of the Theory of Evolution. In short, Muslims have a lot riding on the Theory of Evolution being wrong. In fact, they have their entire religion staked on it. It's a pretty poor bet, but it's all they have.

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? When you consistantly make statements with absolutely know proof to back them up, it becomes painfully obvious why. Because in fact, atheist have a lot riding on the Theory to be right. This gives them more cushion to say that there is no God, despite the fact that their own proof doesn't back their belief up.

 

[Ghostaka]

Response: There's the statement. Where's the proof? When you consistantly make statements with absolutely know proof to back them up, it becomes painfully obvious why. Because in fact, atheist have a lot riding on the Theory to be right. This gives them more cushion to say that there is no God, despite the fact that their own proof doesn't back their belief up.

You could not be more right brother.

Has the A-team realized this (edit: about ToE)? I think not.

Peace be upon you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That's a contridiction. Something can't be shown to be a fact without proof.

The contradiction may be due to a naive and superficial understanding of truth and proof.

Evolution as change over time, as descent with modification, is massively evidenced and reinforced by every relevant branch of science. That fact is certainly insufficient to counteract willful ignorance, but that's a matter of psychology, not biology.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You could not be more right brother.

Has the A-team realized this? I think not.

You guys shame Islam ... :yes:

... but that suggests another thread.

 

[Fatihah]

The contradiction may be due to a naive and superficial understanding of truth and proof.

Evolution as change over time, as descent with modification, is massively evidenced and reinforced by every relevant branch of science. That fact is certainly insufficient to counteract willful ignorance, but that's a matter of psychology, not biology.

Response: Another statement without proof. It's also a matter of psychology to understand that your statement doesn't hold without proof.

 

[Ghostaka]

You guys shame Islam ... :yes:

... but that suggests another thread.

What did you hope to achieve by making a comment like that?

Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.:yes:

Peace be upon you.

 

[Fatihah]

What did you hope to achieve by making a comment like that?

Whatever written of Truth and benefit is only due to Allah’s Assistance and Guidance, and whatever of error is of me. Allah Alone Knows Best and He is the Only Source of Strength.:yes:

Peace be upon you.

Response: Al hamdu lilah. Beautifully said.

 

[Magic Man]

Response: And here is an instance of observed speculation:

"Narrated By Abdullah

The moon was cleft asunder while we were in the company of the prophet and it became two parts. The prophet said, 'Witness, Witness. (The miracle) Sahih Bukhari Volume 6 Book 60 number 388

Here we see that people saw a miracle of Muhammad in which he split the moon. So why is your account true and mine false?

Yours is not necessarily false, but the difference is that with yours all we have to go on is what someone else said. With evolution and science in general, we can see the results or processes ourselves. It would be akin to every human being able to see that miracle.