Ex Christians

[Twilight Hue]

Could you give me an example?

One thing I noticed is people regardless of denomination, act the same as any one else, indicating nothing "miraculous" by way of transformation. Theres passion, yet people are passionate about a lot of things. When people exit worship services notice the almost immediate change in topic from religious matters to everyday matters like an on off switch. Then the parking lot clears.......and the world continues as it does until next service starts.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Most churches try to limit their biblical coherence in subjects like genocide, religious tolerance and homosexuality. (because even while they say they are the only church, etc, at least they don´t say kill where they stand anyone who decides to change reilgion or any male who has sex with another male)

Not all of them limit it, however christianity doesn't teach us to kill others because they believe differently then we do, or because they're homosexual.

 

[Vadergirl123]

by what criteria can you say hell actually exists for me, if it's faith then it doesn't hold water, not for me edit:
i need to clarify, not that you are saying i am going to hell but that it is a real place in my reality.

Hell is a reality wether you want to believe in it or not. Soemthing that exists can't NOT exist just because everyone choses to no longer believe in it.

not the bible, the idea of god

How so?

then it's hearsay. and one cannot confirm one way or the other if it's actually sandy or not as one has never had an empirical experience of sandy.

I said I know people who know Sandy and have seen her, and what they've written about her is consistent with the letters she's been sending me. I don't see why I shouldn't believe Sandy exists or that the content of her letters is false?

i studied to go into the ministry

Cool

i agree with this sentiment. and do you know why people can use the bible as justification for just about anything? it's because the criteria that is used to determine this book as the word of god is based on subjective interpretation, not empirical evidence.

Well anyone can take anything out of any book and use it as justification to do evil things. However you can't blame the Bible or God for that. We're all sinners, you have to blame the people who interpret the Bible incorrectly so it'll say what they want it to.

 

[waitasec]

Hell is a reality wether you want to believe in it or not. Soemthing that exists can't NOT exist just because everyone choses to no longer believe in it.

so then your opinion that hell is real is more valid than my opinion that it is not? what gives your opinion more meaning than mine?

How so?

there is no empirical evidence to validate any of theses attributes of god
indifference is what seems to be the law of nature

I said I know people who know Sandy and have seen her, and what they've written about her is consistent with the letters she's been sending me. I don't see why I shouldn't believe Sandy exists or that the content of her letters is false?

still, your experience is hearsay.

but lets get to the bottom of this...
who do you personally know that personally knows god...?

Well anyone can take anything out of any book and use it as justification to do evil things. However you can't blame the Bible or God for that. We're all sinners, you have to blame the people who interpret the Bible incorrectly so it'll say what they want it to.

exactly. why isn't the bible any different?

i can blame people who refuse to question the bible or any other book that claims to explain god's supposed will.

you are not going to confuse water with fire are you?
your book, if it is gods word, should be able to be undeniably understood in the same manner water is understood.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Thank God for that - the Bible would be a terrible thing to base our morals on. Do we really want to stone our children and our neighbours to death for any kind of deviant behavior? Surely not. Do we (women) honestly want to be forced to MARRY our rapists? Do we want to be forbidden to speak in church, to consider our husbands our masters? Do we want to trade in slaves, or to be slaves? Do we want to slaughter entire villages of men, women, and children, saving the virgin girls to be prizes for the soldiers who do the killing?

Whoa now, while God did command the Israelites to at times completely slaughter people and he gave rules for how to treat/sell slaves(he didn't condone it). He doesn't tell women to never speak in church(I know what verse your refering to and the original greek word doesn't mean to never speak) As to raping God didn't condone it however if a man did it he had to then let the women have an opportunity to cleanse and mourn and then he could have sex with her only after he'd taken her as a wife. However even if God had condoned all these things then that wouldn't give the church a right to. The church isn't the nation of Israel, and it can't act like God.

If there's one thing I am genuinely thankful for, it's that most Christians don't bother to read the Bible. Especially those who insist it's the ultimate foundation for morality.

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I suppose this mod post is reffering to me. I did not personally attack anyone. I did not proselytize. I did not harass other beliefs. I simply asked three questions and I doubt I will ever get an answer. What a shame.

What were your three questions?

 

[Vadergirl123]

All and both? It was a gradual leaving of Christianity for me and then it hit all at one time a couple of years ago, if that makes any sense?

Yes It does. I understand what you're saying.

 

[Vadergirl123]

good question.

seems to me that many ex-Christians become so because they finally give up trying to bend the Bible to fit their lifestyle.

after all , who really wants to live a life of celibacy, temperance and piety?

not how Nature intended it to be.

Why would God create the sexual organs if they were not meant to used?

Well without them you can't have more humans. However they're suppose to be used in marriage.

 

[Vadergirl123]

it was mostly that jesus and Yahweh didnt answer back after so long... i was a christian for 7 or so years. i just gave up after he failed me so much to be there for me when I needed him most like he said he would be.

What didn't he answer you back on? How did he fail you?

Satan is my god now, but its not at all in the christian sense... discovered satanism and it spoke to me... not really the christian satan at all.

Hmm okay so then which Satan is this, if it's not the guy talked about in the Bible?

 

[waitasec]

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

really, how so?

 

[Vadergirl123]

One thing I noticed is people regardless of denomination, act the same as any one else, indicating nothing "miraculous" by way of transformation. Theres passion, yet people are passionate about a lot of things. When people exit worship services notice the almost immediate change in topic from religious matters to everyday matters like an on off switch. Then the parking lot clears.......and the world continues as it does until next service starts.

Yes I do know some people who are christans at church, but act differently. However theirs also people out there who's lives are all about Christ and it's obvious he's their passion all the time. So it's not really fair to imply everyone is like that.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

As to raping God didn't condone it however if a man did it he had to then let the women have an opportunity to cleanse and mourn and then he could have sex with her only after he'd taken her as a wife...

This view is utterly horrific for all survivors of rape.

 

[Vadergirl123]

so then your opinion that hell is real is more valid than my opinion that it is not? what gives your opinion more meaning than mine?

No, both of our "opinions" don't matter. For example if I believe a red chair is yellow and you believe it's blue. The chair will always be red. Hell exists wether anyone believes in it or not.

still, your experience is hearsay.

But why? I have no reason to not believe the people who knwo Sandy are lying about her since what they've written is consistent with her letters. What is it that's heresay?

your book, if it is gods word, should be able to be undeniably understood in the same manner water is understood.

The Bible can be understood when you interpret it correctly, but alot of people want to use it to say what they WANT it to say.[/quote]

 

[Debater Slayer]

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

I don't believe this to be true, for what it's worth; I don't believe that people who don't base their morals on scripture are necessarily immoral.

 

[Vadergirl123]

really, how so?

Do you believe it would be wrong to go in a store and shoot someone in the back?

 

[Vadergirl123]

This view is utterly horrific for all survivors of rape.

Yeah it's pretty bad, but the Israelites had a different culture than we do.

 

[Vadergirl123]

I don't believe this to be true, for what it's worth; I don't believe that people who don't base their morals on scripture are necessarily immoral.

What do you base your morals on then?

 

[waitasec]

No, both of our "opinions" don't matter. For example if I believe a red chair is yellow and you believe it's blue. The chair will always be red. Hell exists wether anyone believes in it or not.

fine then hell is real for you and it isn't for me

But why? I have no reason to not believe the people who knwo Sandy are lying about her since what they've written is consistent with her letters. What is it that's heresay?

ok so who do you know personally that personally knows god and can confirm this book is his word?

The Bible can be understood when you interpret it correctly, but alot of people want to use it to say what they WANT it to say.

[/QUOTE]

then the holy spirit made a miscalculation...
when a writer writes a book, they make sure their story is conveyed clearly

the holy spirit left too much room for error in that department.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

No, both of our "opinions" don't matter. For example if I believe a red chair is yellow and you believe it's blue. The chair will always be red. Hell exists wether anyone believes in it or not.

Vadergirl, a gentle reminder this is dangerously close to proselytizing. You've been very kind and polite in all your debates, so just consider this as friendly advice.

 

[waitasec]

What do you base your morals on then?

everyone, save sociopaths, has the ability to empathize and to reason.

we are social animals.