Ex Christians

[Vadergirl123]

Actually, having to spend eternity in that God forsaken wasteland seen in the picture would definately qualify as hell to me

Really? well if we're just talking about the hell in our minds then my personal hell would be having to listen to an opera all day with only grilled cheese to eat. (shudders) that would be terrible.

 

[waitasec]

Regarding the former reason, whatever "pastor" is teaching flock that God is going to make all people's problems go away needs to be taken out to the back of his church and shot between the eyes. I can't count all the troubles I've had as a follower of Jesus. The promise that we believe is that God SUSTAINS us through the bad times, not makes them disappear

whatever religious book that teaches god is going to make all my sins go away should be destroyed.

 

[Vadergirl123]

but you are overlooking something else we are capable of doing...reason.

If we're animals then we can't reason, and why haven't you told me if you think it's wrong to shoot somone in the back?

 

[Vadergirl123]

but it is.

Not really, the hell I'm taking about isn't a place I formed from my imagination.

 

[Vadergirl123]

then what ever happened to thou shall not mis treat rape victims

God gave them laws, but not everyone followed them.

 

[tumbleweed41]

God made the rules, but not everyone followed them

God made the Rule that a rape victim must marry her attacker?

Why no rule to stone the rapist? It was commanded that disobedient sons be stoned, but not rapists?

You see, this was part of that unreasonable dogma that I could not, as a reasonable human being, condone.

 

[Falvlun]

God made the rules, but not everyone followed them

Couldn't God have simply said "If a girl is raped you shall not treat her any differently, in regards to her "sexual purity," as you would any other person. You shall treat rape victims with compassion and love, and she shall be given the opportunity to obtain a loving, healthy relationship when she is ready to pursue one."

God could have taught compassion, rather than catering to the barbaric tendencies of past cultures.

 

[waitasec]

If we're animals then we can't reason,

i came across an article about theses monkey's that were used as a part of an experiment .

one was put in a cage and it was rigged to shock another monkey every time he would open a latch to get some food. after a while the monkey realized he was hurting his pal, so he basically stopped eating.

and why haven't you told me if you think it's wrong to shoot somone in the back?

because i wouldn't want to be shot in the back.

 

[Falvlun]

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

Yikes! Do you realize how frightening (not to mention, nonsensical) this sounds to people who aren't Christians?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

God made the Rule that a rape victim must marry her attacker?

Why no rule to stone the rapist? It was commanded that disobedient sons be stoned, but not rapists?

You see, this was part of that unreasonable dogma that I could not, as a reasonable human being, condone.

You're telling me that it was through your reading of the Old Testament that you originally decided to reject Jesus?


edit: While it's certainly possible that this could be the case there's usually another factor that it's accompanied by, one that often goes unmentioned. Often, it's during a "dry spell" in one's faith that one starts to question the character of God. It's when they're not feeling satisfied as a follower of Jesus, at least not as much as they think they should.

 

[waitasec]

Not really, the hell I'm taking about isn't a place I formed from my imagination.

it was formed from the imagination of people you do not know and cannot know.

 

[waitasec]

You're telling me that it was through your reading of the Old Testament that you originally decided to reject Jesus?

jesus is god...
the same yesterday today and tomorrow...

 

[Nakosis]

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

My morals are based on what I value.
I value what I value for whatever reasons. Evolution, culture, experience. These things developed my values.

From these values I determine what is right and what is wrong. You have values don't you? Isn't what you value determining what actions are right and wrong for you?

Even if you accept the authority of the Bible this shouldn't negate the fact that you have your own values that influence the decisions you make.

You can argue maybe my morals are not objective but it's silly to argue I have no reason for the ones I do have.

 

[tumbleweed41]

You're telling me that it was through your reading of the Old Testament that you originally decided to reject Jesus?

No.

...this was part of that unreasonable dogma...

As I said previously, it was through an in depth study of the Bible, the history of Christianity, and natural history and how the world naturally works that led me to reject all forms of revealed revelation.

 

[Vadergirl123]

God made the Rule that a rape victim must marry her attacker?
Why no rule to stone the rapist? It was commanded that disobedient sons be stoned, but not rapists?
You see, this was part of that unreasonable dogma that I could not, as a reasonable human being, condone.

I totally see where you're comming form. I've sometimes found myself reading passages and then saying why didn't God do it this way instead. It would have been better and it would have made him look like a more fair God. The problem when we do that though is that we're trying to "be God" we're saying we know what's best and we know how it should be done. There's things about God we can't understand and we just have to accept that he knows best even if it doesn't make sense to us. I know it's hard to do though.

 

[Vadergirl123]

Couldn't God have simply said "If a girl is raped you shall not treat her any differently, in regards to her "sexual purity," as you would any other person. You shall treat rape victims with compassion and love, and she shall be given the opportunity to obtain a loving, healthy relationship when she is ready to pursue one."

I'm not trying to sound rude, but the Iraelites weren't perfect human beings. You'll always have people who will judge others regardless if God tells them not to. I bet most of the people wouldn't have been too compassionate or loving.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Without the Bible you'd have no reason to even have morals.

So...

No one but Christians are moral? Really?

 

[Vadergirl123]

i came across an article about theses monkey's that were used as a part of an experiment .

one was put in a cage and it was rigged to shock another monkey every time he would open a latch to get some food. after a while the monkey realized he was hurting his pal, so he basically stopped eating.

Could I have the source of this article please? So the monkey starved himslef? That sounds cruel, the poor monkeys.

because i wouldn't want to be shot in the back.

okay haha but do you see that if you have no set of moral codes there's nothing to stop everyone from just doing whatever they want. And not just anyone can decide what the moral codes are. I mean I can't write a list of rules and tell everyone to obey them because I said so.

 

[Falvlun]

The concept that caused me to lose my faith in Christianity was the realization that it was unfair and unjust.

1. Unfair: If the only way to achieve salvation is by believing in Jesus, then salvation is largely contingent upon an accident of birth. It is easier to become a Christian if you live in western countries where it is predominant, than middle eastern or asian ones, where it is socially unacceptable or simply not culturally intuitive.

That dosn't make it unfair. Everyne has the opportunity to accept Christ. There circumstances or life style can make it harder for them sure, but it's still their choice.

How is "harder" not unfair? This is a decision, that according to your religion, decides a person's eternal fate. Shouldn't every single person have the exact same chance at obtaining salvation?

Here's an example. I am going to give a test to two groups of students that will decide whether they get to go to college or not. I will give the first group of students the exact test to study from and tell them that this is the correct study guide and the other group has the wrong one. I will give the second group the wrong test to study from and tell them that this is the correct study guide and that the other group has the wrong one. Each group is free to exchange study guides; if they are compassionate, both groups will likely try to convince the other group to study from their guide.

Which group do you think will do better on the test? Do you think that this was a fair way to judge the students, and determine which get to go to college?

And of course, this unfair advantage to the first group is much exacerbated in regards to religion. This would be like teaching group one the correct study guide since kindergarten, and teaching group two the incorrect one for the same amount of time. The two groups would be separated by large geographic, language, and cultural barriers. They would be aware of each other, but only as a strange minority faction, who believes strange things, alien to what they have been taught since birth.

It's not about the "highest chance" if Islam was the true religion(I don't beleive it is) then I'd still be able to chose to join the religion.

Just like Group 2 could choose to accept Group 1's study guide. Possible, but unlikely. Whereas, Group 1 was lucky enough to be handed the correct study guide right from the get-go.

Who do you think has a greater opportunity, a greater chance, at accepting Islam? You or someone born in Saudi Arabia? Is it fair that your salvation hinges upon an accident of where you happened to be born?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

No.


As I said previously, it was through an in depth study of the Bible, the history of Christianity, and natural history and how the world naturally works that led me to reject all forms of revealed revelation.

While it's certainly possible that this could be the case there's usually another factor that it's accompanied by, one that often goes unmentioned. Often, it's during a "dry spell" in one's faith/walk with Jesus that one starts to question the character of God. It's when they're not feeling satisfied as a follower of Jesus, at least not as much as they think they should.