Experiencing God

[Nakosis]

We have a higher consciousness as everything is fractal... that is why they see their own saviour etc.
I don't necessarily disagree with your comments however

And for you? What does this higher consciousness seem to you?

I never saw it as "fractal", but I guess the term seems appropriate.

 

[Robert.Evans]

And for you? What does this higher consciousness seem to you?

I never saw it as "fractal", but I guess the term seems appropriate.

I think a lot of it seems to be in line with NeoPlatonism... if that helps.
I would say this, (this is a long story, I will give you the short one. I don't mind going further if your interested however) Everything comes from a Singularity, (the One), and from that is thrown out a reflection of its own Self, (this happens infinite times), each one being its own God, reflective of the One true God.

In that sense it is fractal. What develops from the One is complexity from simplicity. It ends up like concentric circles of thought, each one its own Realm. Everything follows this First Principle of replication and division (as a cell does... fractal). Each Realm though is in error to the last one as it gets further away from the Original Light, the One. Eventually you arrive here, the phsycial realm. Outside of that is outer darkness- death.

EDIT
It follows the original print as there is nothing else it can do, nor know, accept its own Self

 

[Nakosis]

I think a lot of it seems to be in line with Platonism... if that helps.
I would say this, (this is a long story, I will give you the short one. I don't mind going further if your interested however) Everything comes from a Singularity, (the One), and from that is thrown out a reflection of its own Self, (this happens infinite times), each one being its own God, reflective of the One true God.

So man is like a Xerox copy of God that has gone through the copier a billion times, each time adding a little more imperfection?

Salvation is accomplished through virtue and contemplation.

Virtue, a life of excellent morality.

Self-control
Reason
A willingness to confront pain and fear (courage)
Justice, a balance between selfishness and selflessness.

Sorry, just a digestion of info from Wikipedia.

What have you experienced which supports this? To materialists this is all the result of self delusion.

Do you know of Hermes Trismegistus?

Supposedly he influenced a lot of beliefs. Christianity, Islam and
Neo-Platonism.

 

[Azihayya]

My experiences with what I perceive to be God, (God, as a denomination that I interpret, which I relate to as a word over other similar words), has been like, the feeling of profound openness. A lifting of the spirit -- in my own opinion, an ascension of the mind that corresponds to my belief in telepathic communication -- which I've only felt briefly during rare moments of my life -- one, last night, actually. It was as if the feeling could last forever, the other, (sorry if this is against the rules), I was smoking some tar, and it was as if the gates of Heaven were opened before me, and I could enter, but that I must leave soon. It's... for me, a loss of words. Again, this relates to my belief in telepathic communication, a far superior form of communication than language itself in terms of efficiency and accuracy, although not necessarily beauty.

If God exists, from my perspective, what he is, is a collection of our imaginations, and a representation of ourselves, expressed, as universal deities/beings. It encompasses a wide array of ideas, such as that we have a destiny, or fate, and that we can overcome tragedy, and ascend to godliness -- and immortality. One of man-kinds greatest aspirations. If, not in our physical form, then spiritually. That we can recognize the spirits of the fallen, and the spirits of the past -- spirits, which have existed for an infinite duration, throughout an infinite amount of space, with only a finite amount of matter. It's that absolute confusion in attempting to understand how anything can ever be in any way whatever it has been. Most of all, it's an extreme sense of belonging, and comfort. It's realizing one's purpose, not merely as a vacationer of life, but rather as a spirit that is eternally dedicated to everything that we are and that we have.

My experience last night was more like... with patience, and virtue, I can stay in that place, at some time. It felt like a tangible experience, to hold on to. Yes, it very much relates to the idea of knowing and feeling God. I, myself, am not antagonistic towards the resolution of God, but for stories like Genesis from the Bible, it is apparent to me that such written words are elegantly displayed forms of poetry, and that God must be analyzed from an abstract perspective to get anywhere closer to understanding the true, very complex nature of God.

 

[Sue D.]

I have no problem sharing My religious experience with people -- because my experience has been salvation. I was raised in a Christian home / parents were both believers/ we were in church every Sunday and Wednesday evenings. Youth choirs, summer camps, VBS, etc. People sort of Assumed I was a believer. But in early teen years I wasn't really sure of my salvation. So our pastor challenged everyone in a Sunday evening service -- if a person Wasn't Sure, Make sure, right where you're sitting -- talk to God about your concerns -- confess, repent, accept and thank Him for providing salvation for you Personally. So I Did and it was what I needed to do. No need to 'walk down the aisle' to get saved. Then - after a while-- I realized that I needed to be rebaptized cause the previous year I'd been baptized with some other young people from camp. Some of Them even realized they weren't really saved and then had made sure and They were also being baptized by immersion -- And that also made a difference. Baptism does Not save a person, but it the Outward 'expression' of the decision that has already been made Internally.
The Holy Spirit convicted me of my need for asking Jesus Christ to be my Personal Savior. And Scripture tells us that everyone needs to make that decision for him/her self.

 

[Muffled]

The mind alters our perception. It changes whatever we receive through our sense to fit patterns it's been learning since before birth.

Why wouldn't it alter the reality of these spiritual experiences. No reason to think it doesn't.

lets say there is a God. Paul experienced "God" however he perceive this as a visitation by Jesus. Allah saw he experience as a visitation by Gabriel. They trusted the apparent truth of their experience.

I believe they experienced something. However the perception was altered by the mind. So I don't think they are lying, but neither can it be trusted as actual truth.

It's just how the mind works. I see no reason to believe this is any different for those claiming to speak for God.

I believe an experience is an experience no matter how the mind perceives it. I suppose a deranged mind could see a tree and turn it into a virgin but most people don't do that they simply observe what they see as they see it and then make asscoiations. I believe that my experience was not delusional. My mind was simply perceiving what was happening. I certainly can envision things with my mind but I know when I am doing it. Otherwise all experiences would be considered useless if they could just be considered a product of the mind and I believe that is a mentally unballanced approach to experience.

 

[Muffled]

Cool.

My mind tells me that there is no God.

Now what?

Ciao

- viole

I believe a lack of experience is not an experience.

I believe there is a need to re-evaluate one's thinking.

 

[Muffled]

But you believe in your god, what is different, why is your god the true god just because you believe you experienced him. Your so called experience is just that, an experience, its no different than experiencing Bugs Bunny, or Santa clause, or whatever you believe in.

I believe my experience of God is a great deal different from my experience of Bugs Bunny or Santa Claus. God provides a real experience whereas Bugs Bunny and current depictions of Sanata Claus provide a fantasy experience. my expereience of viewing a tree provides me with a real experience in the same way that my experience of God is real.

 

[viole]

I believe a lack of experience is not an experience.

I believe there is a need to re-evaluate one's thinking.

I was not talking about experiences. I was referring to your statement that the mind has been designed so that it cannot deceive. And the mind is capable of many things, not only experiences.

Now, my mind tells me that there is no God. It is actually quite sure about it.

Now what? Is there a problem with the design of my mind?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Azihayya]

Oh yes, I would like to say, God has often represented to me, an inevitable prevailing force of goodness.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe an experience is an experience no matter how the mind perceives it. I suppose a deranged mind could see a tree and turn it into a virgin but most people don't do that they simply observe what they see as they see it and then make asscoiations. I believe that my experience was not delusional. My mind was simply perceiving what was happening. I certainly can envision things with my mind but I know when I am doing it. Otherwise all experiences would be considered useless if they could just be considered a product of the mind and I believe that is a mentally unballanced approach to experience.

I don't disagree, however I think we can learn about the tricks the mind plays so we can guard against them. If you are not aware of them you can't guard against them.

It takes effort and is not perfect. However the less deception in our own thinking the better.

What you experience is fine. Just like any other perception of reality. When we go to explain that experience, we usually don't only relate the experience but we also try to apply meaning to that experience. The meaning we apply from our own thinking, a lot of that idealism being supplied by the mind, can become to us the truth of that experience.

I have experiences with God. I am very certain about the reality of them. I can't change that without questioning all my experiences of reality. Unfortunately once you've had an experience it becomes easy for your mind/imagination to simulate that experience. Most people can't tell the difference between the reality they imagine and the reality they actually experience. Maybe you can. If so then great. If not you wouldn't know but would still claim to be quite capable of knowing the difference.

 

[Sonofason]

Seriously? Interpreting the OP from a perspective I can actually respond to with respect to my religious experiences is misrepresentation and slander? Not limiting the conversation merely to classical monotheists who believe in a one-god is misrepresentation and slander? Seriously? Un-be-frigging-lievable.

You can manipulate the OP in any way you like, but you don't get to quote me when you do it.

 

[Sonofason]

I take it that you've never had shingles.

And never will.

 

[Quintessence]

You can manipulate the OP in any way you like, but you don't get to quote me when you do it.

So.... do you have something of actual value to say in response to a thoughtful response to your thread? Or have I, as you so poetically put it, thrown pearls to the swine?

 

[YmirGF]

My question was sincere.

How can you know that it was the holly spirit and not the father or the son ?

As someone who has met their own personal vision of "god", in retrospect, I am a bit leery of those who claim to know god. "God" isn't what most people think... imho, of course...

 

[Sonofason]

So.... do you have something of actual value to say in response to a thoughtful response to your thread? Or have I, as you so poetically put it, thrown pearls to the swine?

Okay, this is what you had written: (Quintessence had written)

Neopaganism on the whole generally falls under the category of what I like to call mystical religion, meaning experiencing our gods directly is not only routine, but expected. As such, it's not typically appropriate to say we "believe" in our gods; we know our gods. Our ideas are not faith-based, they are grounded in our own experiences. What ties Neopaganism together is often common practices, and these practices facilitate the sorts of religious/mystical experiences that enable us to get to know the gods. In my case, since my gods are literally all the aspects of reality, there are many different avenues I take to learn about the gods.

Simply being alive and existing will inevitably put me into contact with many gods. Various arcane practices can be used to contemplate the deeper essence of the gods. I frequently draw from the sciences when knowing the gods, along with the stories woven by the world's cultures whether it be ancient mythos or modern mythos.

What really enables any of these experiences is the decision to call something "god." Ultimately, that's a label we put on something. Non-theists and non-Pagans will have the exact same experiences I do, but they won't relate it to the gods. I see sciences as the study of the gods, but most people don't. I see the very ground I walk on as infused with gods/spirits, but most people don't. And that's okay. The path others take to truths and meanings need not be the same as mine, nor would I want it to be.

I can see how one might think that experiencing that which God has created is in a sense like experiencing God, however I do not see it this way. God is not His creation. We can experience that which God created, and we can experience God. God and God's creation are not one in the same. If that makes me a swine, I'm quite honored to hold that title.

 

[Quintessence]

Of course it doesn't make you swine! It was simply distressing that I put decent time and effort into a post and shared something personal to my religion, and no meaningful response was made to it. All this makes you a classical monotheist, which is something I am not. My gods are not your god. But really, the point of that post was to illuminate different ways in which people can experience god(s), not to get into a theological debate about the nature of god(s). I thought that exploring that was the aim of this thread.

 

[Sonofason]

Of course it doesn't make you swine! It was simply distressing that I put decent time and effort into a post and shared something personal to my religion, and no meaningful response was made to it. All this makes you a classical monotheist, which is something I am not. My gods are not your god. But really, the point of that post was to illuminate different ways in which people can experience god(s), not to get into a theological debate about the nature of god(s). I thought that exploring that was the aim of this thread.

Thus, according to your understanding of "the gods", all one needs to do is label one of these gods as something that one experiences. For example, I can call the water in a lake a god, and all I need to do to experience this god is to go swimming in the lake. I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that. God is not water. God is not sunlight. God is not a leaf.

 

[Quintessence]

Thus, according to your understanding of "the gods", all one needs to do is label one of these gods as something that one experiences. For example, I can call the water in a lake a god, and all I need to do to experience this god is to go swimming in the lake. I'm sorry, it doesn't work like that. God is not water. God is not sunlight. God is not a leaf.

It does not work that way for you. It does for other theists, and in particular polytheists, regardless of whether or not you personally agree with it. Yes, your god is not water, sun, or leaf. Mine gods are. From my point of view, I directly experience my gods on a daily basis, and I was explaining to you (and anyone else who reads) why that is. I see god(s) differently than you. You're allowed to disagree with my theology, and me with yours. What I find odd is that while you seem to respect experiences of god(s) that match your own theology, you don't seem to take those of other theisms seriously. This is exactly, exactly why many theists don't like sharing their religious experiences; because we're sick of outsiders telling us "oh, that wasn't god(s)" or otherwise naysaying and poo-pooing our experiences. I would not see it as my place to tell you whether or not you've experienced your god. I would appreciate, but do not expect, the same courtesy.

 

[psychoslice]

I believe my experience of God is a great deal different from my experience of Bugs Bunny or Santa Claus. God provides a real experience whereas Bugs Bunny and current depictions of Sanata Claus provide a fantasy experience. my expereience of viewing a tree provides me with a real experience in the same way that my experience of God is real.

But how do you know your experience of god is real' ?. Is this experience separate from you like the tree, or is the experience one with you like the tree ?.