Experiencing God

[Saint Frankenstein]

The reason you find some similarities to Theravada, as per your example, is because early Christians, or rather, Nazarenes, were directly influenced by Eastern doctrines. Just for starters, it was the Theravada monks who traveled into Egypt and Greece, establishing their monasteries, and who, as I understand it, then transformed into the Therapeutae, both sects being healing-oriented sects, the former Buddhistic, the latter Essene. There were connections to the Therapeutae from the Order of Nazorean Essenes at Mt. Carmel, just 10 miles away from modern day Nazareth, and it is reputed that Yeshua lived, worked, and taught at Mt. Carmel where he and Joseph and Mary also lived, as Mt. Carmel was a family oriented monastery. It is also reputed that Yeshua traveled East during the 18 or so 'missing years', of which there are virtually zero accounts of his whereabouts from the Christian viewpoint. Now, having said all that, the problem is that the original pure teachings of Yeshua have become corrupted when Rome and St. Paul sought to hunt down the Nazarenes and destroy them and their teachings, overwriting them with those of the mystery religions, such as Mithraism, which infused pagan doctrines such as blood sacrifice, virgin birth, and bodily resurrection, none of which Yeshua taught. The Eastern doctrines of inner divine union did not have the mass appeal for conversion and salvation that the pagan religions did, and Rome wanted something that had this mass appeal, as a means of controlling the people. A convert did not have to know anything; all one need do was to kneel and submit to 'Jesus' as one's personal Lord and Savior. But some of Yeshua's teachings survived the onslaught, and poke through here and there. One example can be found in the words spoken by Yeshua from the cross:

'Father, forgive them,for they know not what they do.'

IOW, Yeshua was not asking forgiveness for their sin, but for their ignorance, and, if you know anything about Buddhism, it is ignorance that is the focus, not sin.

Ah, yes, conspiracy theories and ignorance. How lovely.

 

[godnotgod]

Ah, yes, conspiracy theories and ignorance. How lovely.

There's no conspiracy, but what makes this view lovely is how everything just falls right into place. So is there a point you were trying to make?

 

[godnotgod]

While a legitimate question. Although it took me 3 reads to understand it (It is late cut some slack). I would say that in this context I was experiencing the divine, and not the other way around. I cannot speak for the divine, but I can speak for myself. (At least I think that is what you were getting at).

Or not, now that I reread what you wrote, for the 6th time. I was the one having the experience in conjunction with my Gods. And we were paying attention to each other. They spoke, I listened.

And who is it that was listening? Who are you in this experience? IOW, are you not also the divine essence, experiencing yourself as a listener, an experiencer?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There's no conspiracy, but what makes this view lovely is how everything just falls right into place. So is there a point you were trying to make?

Of course everything falls into place when you're piecing together bits and pieces of nonsense that back up your own assumptions.

 

[godnotgod]

Of course everything falls into place when you're piecing together bits and pieces of nonsense that back up your own assumptions.

C'mon. Show where the nonsense and assumptions lie. Don't be shy.

As an example of nonsense on the orthodox side of the coin, we have a gaping hole in the Christian account of some 18 missing years. Now THAT is pure nonsense, if not poppycock. In fact, it IS poppycock!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

C'mon. Show where the nonsense and assumptions lie. Don't be shy.

As an example of nonsense on the orthodox side of the coin, we have a gaping hole in the Christian account of some 18 missing years. Now THAT is pure nonsense, if not poppycock. In fact, it IS poppycock!

No, we don't have a "gaping hole". It says that Jesus spent those years working with His father, Joseph. It wasn't anything interesting so there was no reason to go into detail about it. That nonsense about Him going to India or whatever was made up centuries later. There's also legends saying He went to Britain and France. My, He sure did get around, didn't He!

You saying that the Church edited out Jesus' "true" teachings in order to control the masses is a conspiracy theory and a load of nonsense. You also show a large amount of ignorance over what Christianity actually teaches. There's centuries-long traditions of mysticism in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. There are also concepts of theosis and apotheosis.

But this we are God and this "one consciousness" talk is not found in Christianity, even during its earliest days. That's some New Age stuff stemming from Hinduism that is trendy in the West among some.

Also, conversion to Christianity wasn't as easy as just "accepting" Jesus and that's it. There was a process they had to go through. These days, we call it the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. The Orthodox have something similar. We don't have altar calls, spontaneous Baptisms and the like. You have to study before being welcomed into the Church.

 

[godnotgod]

I believe that we are all imperfect.
Christianity is a religion that is practiced by human beings. And human beings are apparently quite imperfect.

However, Christianity is the perfect state of men. Let me explain.

A Christian is not a person who follows some particular set of man made rules. A Christian, by definition, is a person who follows Christ.
I would contend that there actually are no Christians, because there is no person alive who is following Christ. No one is obeying Christ perfectly. If a person were to follow Christ perfectly, that person would indeed be perfect.

No, he would not, simply because he is still following the idol, Christ. A perfected individual is one who is simply at one with his own nature.

But the question here is: can the imperfect be made perfect, or is that which is seen as imperfect merely an illusion? If the imperfect cannot be made perfect, then it is not part of the final equation, and if that is the case, then the follower of Christ must end up to be not a follower of Christ. He must end up as the Christ essence itself.

"That which you are seeking is causing you to seek"

 

[godnotgod]

No, we don't have a "gaping hole". It says that Jesus spent those years working with His father, Joseph. It wasn't anything interesting so there was no reason to go into detail about it. That nonsense about Him going to India or whatever was made up centuries later. There's also legends saying He went to Britain and France. My, He sure did get around, didn't He!

You saying that the Church edited out Jesus' "true" teachings in order to control the masses is a conspiracy theory and a load of nonsense. You also show a large amount of ignorance over what Christianity actually teaches. There's centuries-long traditions of mysticism in both Catholicism and Orthodoxy. There are also concepts of theosis and apotheosis.

But this we are God and this "one consciousness" talk is not found in Christianity, even during its earliest days. That's some New Age stuff stemming from Hinduism that is trendy in the West among some.

Also, conversion to Christianity wasn't as easy as just "accepting" Jesus and that's it. There was a process they had to go through. These days, we call it the Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults. The Orthodox have something similar. We don't have altar calls, spontaneous Baptisms and the like. You have to study before being welcomed into the Church.

You're speaking from a Catholic perspective, and a Church-oriented one at that. I am simply referring to the fact that, to become a Christian, one need only submit and accept Jesus as one's personal lord and savior.

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

Unfortunately, the Church has lost touch with the mystical meanings of its symbols, part of the reason it has lost members, and who have sought spiritual nourishment in living mystical practices, such as Zen, Yoga, Sufism, and the like.

So Jesus, who was God in the flesh, eked out a quiet living making no money in a town that never existed, and whose true identity was never understood by anyone until one day he bursts upon the world, full blown. Sure he did. Pure fantasy.

More likely that the real man, Yeshua, was a Nazarene mystic who lived at the real Nazorean Essene monastery just 10 miles away contributing his carpentry skills to the monastery, and who traveled East during some of those 18 years via the monastery's connection to the Therapeutae in Egypt and Greece. Let us remember that Joseph and Mary did flee into Egypt to escape Herod. Where do you suppose they stayed? We have at least one account from a Coptic monastery in Egypt of Joseph, Mary, and baby Jesus staying there to escape Herod.

It is also more likely that he learned his healing arts from the Therapeutae and yogis, and when he did return from the East, attempted to apply some of his teachings, largely Buddhistic, to the people back home.

From the Essene perspective, the reason the one consciousness ideas are not found is because the Essene teaching was three tiered, with the outer tier being for uninitiated converts who did not have knowledge of the inner mysteries. Theirs was purely evangelistic, and it was the members of this outer tier that broke with the Essenes to become the first Christians.

At any rate, we have more information coming from the East about Yeshua and those 18 missing years than we do from orthodox Christianity. In fact, we have pretty much zilch from Christianity about its own deity.

There is no trendy anything. What there is, is the scriptural passage of Jesus pointing and saying:

'The Kingdom of God is within you'

That is a purely mystical statement, along with:

'I and the Father are one'

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You're speaking from a Catholic perspective, and a Church-oriented one at that. I am simply referring to the fact that, to become a Christian, one need only submit and accept Jesus as one's personal lord and savior.

“I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me."

Unfortunately, the Church has lost touch with the mystical meanings of its symbols, part of the reason it has lost members, and who have sought spiritual nourishment in living mystical practices, such as Zen, Yoga, Sufism, and the like.

So Jesus, who was God in the flesh, eked out a quiet living making no money in a town that never existed, and whose true identity was never understood by anyone until one day he bursts upon the world, full blown. Sure he did. Pure fantasy.

More likely that the real man, Yeshua, was a Nazarene mystic who lived at the real Nazorean Essene monastery just 10 miles away contributing his carpentry skills to the monastery, and who traveled East during some of those 18 years via the monastery's connection to the Therapeutae in Egypt and Greece. Let us remember that Joseph and Mary did flee into Egypt to escape Herod. Where do you suppose they stayed? We have at least one account from a Coptic monastery in Egypt of Joseph, Mary, and baby Jesus staying there to escape Herod.

It is also more likely that he learned his healing arts from the Therapeutae and yogis, and when he did return from the East, attempted to apply some of his teachings, largely Buddhistic, to the people back home.

From the Essene perspective, the reason the one consciousness ideas are not found is because the Essene teaching was three tiered, with the outer tier being for uninitiated converts who did not have knowledge of the inner mysteries. Theirs was purely evangelistic, and it was the members of this outer tier that broke with the Essenes to become the first Christians.

At any rate, we have more information coming from the East about Yeshua and those 18 missing years than we do from orthodox Christianity. In fact, we have pretty much zilch from Christianity about its own deity.

There is no trendy anything. What there is, is the scriptural passage of Jesus pointing and saying:

'The Kingdom of God is within you'

That is a purely mystical statement, along with:

'I and the Father are one'

Catholicism does have living mystical practices, but most modern Westerners are too busy with materialism and consumerism to bother with serious religious practice, especially that of traditional Western culture. The West is in decline and is already mostly a rotting corpse as it is, anyway.

It seems that every group wants to claim Jesus as their own - Hindus, Buddhists, Jews (He is a Jew, of course, but I mean by de-Christianizing Him, in this context), etc. There's no evidence that He was ever in contact with Buddhists or Hindus. Those ideas sprung up in the 19th century and are based on crap research and hoaxes.

I know that the Bible contains mystical passages, but some people like to misinterpret them to make them say what they don't. "I and the Father are one" does not mean what you think it does.

 

[godnotgod]

Catholicism does have living mystical practices, but most modern Westerners are too busy with materialism and consumerism to bother with serious religious practice, especially that of traditional Western culture. The West is in decline and is already mostly a rotting corpse as it is, anyway.

It seems that every group wants to claim Jesus as their own - Hindus, Buddhists, Jews (He is a Jew, of course, but I mean by de-Christianizing Him, in this context), etc. There's no evidence that He was ever in contact with Buddhists or Hindus. Those ideas sprung up in the 19th century and are based on crap research and hoaxes.

I know that the Bible contains mystical passages, but some people like to misinterpret them to make them say what they don't. "I and the Father are one" does not mean what you think it does.

There can be no mistake that Jesus's statement pointed directly to his divine union with the Father. Just a random search from a Christian source reveals the following:

"...Jesus claimed to be one with the Father as part of a larger argument to note that He had existed from eternity past, lived in perfect oneness with the Father, held the same power as God, and was sent by God the Father’s authority."

Read more: What did Jesus mean when He said, ‘I and the Father are one’ (John 10:30)?

There are simply too many Eastern references to Jesus as savior, messiah, teacher, etc. and that are independent from one another for them to be mere coincidence. These references are from Persia, Tibet, Nepal, China, and India.

You denigrate good information as 'crap research' simply because you are knee-jerk defensive about your beliefs. As just one example of what I am referring to, we have the following:

"Buddhist records also show that Gautama Buddha(as) had prophesied the coming of a second Buddha whom he named Metteyya. This prophecy is contained in Lagavati Sutta1, a Buddhist record to which reference is made on page 142 of Oldenberg’s book. It reads as follows:


‘He will be the leader of a band of disciples numbering hundreds of thousands, as I am now the leader of bands of disciples, numbering hundreds…’

It should be remembered that the Pali name ‘Metteyya’ is the same as ‘Mashiha’ in Hebrew…The future Metteyya prophesied by [the] Buddha(as) is none other than the Messiah himself. One strong evidence in support of this is that the Buddha(as) himself prophesied that the faith he had founded would not endure on earth for more than five hundred years, and that at the time of the decline of the faith and its teachings, the Metteyya would appear in this country to re-establish these moral teachings in the world. We find that Jesus(as) appeared 500 years after the Buddha(as) and, just as the Buddha(as) had foretold the time for the decline of his faith, Buddhism suffered deterioration and decadence. It was then that Jesus(as), having escaped from the cross, travelled to these areas where the Buddhists recognised him and treated him with great reverence…*

It must be noted that the name Metteyya in Buddhist literature undoubtedly refers to the Messiah. On page 14 of the book Tibet, Tartary, Mongolia by H.T. Prinsep, it is written about the Metteyya Buddha, who in reality is the Messiah, that the first Christian missionaries, having heard and seen at first conditions obtaining in Tibet, came to the conclusion that in the ancient books of the Lamas there were to be found traces of the Christian religion. On the same page it is stated that there is no doubt about it that these earlier writers believed that some disciples of Jesus(as) were still alive when the Christian faith reached there. On page 171 it is stated that there is not the slightest doubt that at that time everybody was eagerly waiting for the great Saviour to appear. Tacitus says that the Jews were not the lone holders of this belief, Buddhism too was responsible for laying the foundations of this expectation, inasmuch as it prophesied the coming of Metteyya. The author of the English work has moreover added a note to the effect that the books Pitakattayan and Attha-katha contain a clear prophecy about the advent of another Buddha who would appear a thousand years after Gautama or Shakya Muni. Gautama states that he is the twenty-fifth Buddha and that the Bagwa Metteyya is still to come; that is why after he has gone, one whose name will be Metteyya and who will be fair-skinned will come…This is why the followers of Buddhism had all along been waiting for the Messiah to appear in their country.

The Buddha(as), in his prophesy about the future Buddha, called him Bagwa Metteyya. Bagwa in Sanskrit means ‘white’. Jesus(as), being of Syrian origin, was Bagwa – of white complexion. The people of the land where this prophecy was made, i.e., Magadh, where Raja Griha was located, were dark-skinned and Gautama Buddha(as) himself was dark. Therefore, the Buddha(as) related to his followers two distinct signs of the future Buddha: first that he would be Bagwa – of white complexion, and secondly, he would be Metteyya – a traveller who would arrive from a foreign land…"

- See more at: The Essence of Islam – Evidence from Buddhist Scriptures that Jesus(as) travelled to Kashmir - The Review of Religions

*The reference here is to the Buddhist monastery at Hemis in the Himalayas, where Jesus was referred to as 'our beloved St. Issa', which translates as 'savior' and 'prophet'.

 

[Sonofason]

Because the mind is about perceptual reality, and as such, is a conditioned kind of view. The nature of the divine (I prefer not to use the word 'God') is not of the mind; that is to say, not of perceptual reality, but is the Ultimate Reality, and the Ultimate Reality is Unborn; Unconditioned; Deathless; outside of Space and Time. The mind is in space and time, but it is Pure Consciousness that is before mind, and therefore, is of the divine nature.

That is one problem I see with your view, though you are probably unaware of it, as you are always seeing things from a personal point of view, which is the second problem:

The mind interprets your experience as a personal one, ie; 'MY experience'. It is, therefore, a distortion. The 'I' part of the experience, that is to say, the notion of an experiencer of the experience via mind, must fall away, so that there is only the pure experience itself. This results in the realization of the experience as a purely impersonal one, contrary to what the mind thinks. Now, when I say 'impersonal', I do not mean cold or uncaring. I mean to say that the experience is one that is beyond the confines of the finite, limited mind, which cannot contain the Infinite. IOW, one must simply let go, instead of always focusing on a sense of a personal self having the experience, which continues the illusion of separation from the divine essence, whereas the goal is actually the opposite, of course, of divine union. As the Hindus tells us: 'like dye dissolved in water'. I would like to add that the notion of separation from the divine nature is an illusion; so the spiritual experience is not one of coming together with the divine nature from a state of separation, but rather one of realization that one already is at one with the divine nature, which is precisely what Yeshua told us:

'The Kingdom of God is within you'

There is more to this than you realize, but this is just for starters. The rest of what I have to say about it is just too incomprehensible and incredible to the ordinary mind at this point, but perhaps the gist of what I have said so far is what was the original meaning of 'pearls to swine', purely in the sense that the unenlightened can only respond to messages from the divine nature in ways that have been predetermined by culture and conditioning.

What you are saying sounds reasonable enough to me. I just don't know. As far as I can tell, everything that a human being experiences, he experiences through the mind. We sense heat, we experience it through the mind. We see the natural world around us, and we experience that which we see through the mind. Without the mind, and I do mean specifically the brain, we experience nothing. I should say that it is not apparent in any way that we experience anything without the brain. And so since we are physical beings, and since I believe that God is fully capable of making Himself known to to physical beings, I can only conclude that we can experience God, and that experience does not take place without the brain. I would think that the human brain is absolutely necessary for human beings to experience God, and therefore, I would conclude that for a human being to experience God, there must be some capacity of the human brain to experience God. I don't think God would have it any other way.

However, that does not explain how one might experience God after this life. I have no idea how a spirit or a soul experiences God. But my guess is that God has a solution for that problem as well.

 

[Sonofason]

The reason you find some similarities to Theravada, as per your example, is because early Christians, or rather, Nazarenes, were directly influenced by Eastern doctrines. Just for starters, it was the Theravada monks who traveled into Egypt and Greece, establishing their monasteries, and who, as I understand it, then transformed into the Therapeutae, both sects being healing-oriented sects, the former Buddhistic, the latter Essene. There were connections to the Therapeutae from the Order of Nazorean Essenes at Mt. Carmel, just 10 miles away from modern day Nazareth, and it is reputed that Yeshua lived, worked, and taught at Mt. Carmel where he and Joseph and Mary also lived, as Mt. Carmel was a family oriented monastery. It is also reputed that Yeshua traveled East during the 18 or so 'missing years', of which there are virtually zero accounts of his whereabouts from the Christian viewpoint. Now, having said all that, the problem is that the original pure teachings of Yeshua have become corrupted when Rome and St. Paul sought to hunt down the Nazarenes and destroy them and their teachings, overwriting them with those of the mystery religions, such as Mithraism, which infused pagan doctrines such as blood sacrifice, virgin birth, and bodily resurrection, none of which Yeshua taught. The Eastern doctrines of inner divine union did not have the mass appeal for conversion and salvation that the pagan religions did, and Rome wanted something that had this mass appeal, as a means of controlling the people. A convert did not have to know anything; all one need do was to kneel and submit to 'Jesus' as one's personal Lord and Savior. But some of Yeshua's teachings survived the onslaught, and poke through here and there. One example can be found in the words spoken by Yeshua from the cross:

'Father, forgive them,for they know not what they do.'

IOW, Yeshua was not asking forgiveness for their sin, but for their ignorance, and, if you know anything about Buddhism, it is ignorance that is the focus, not sin.

All this sounds very reasonable to me as well. However, I do believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of sins, not necessarily for the forgiveness of ignorance. While I do admit that many sins are indeed a result of ignorance, some aren't. I believe that salvation is an issue, and if salvation is sought by an individual who has engaged in willful sin, then repentance is absolutely necessary. We cannot knowingly and willfully live in sin and expect to find any kind of unity and oneness with God. Heaven is not a place or state of being for unrepentant sinners.

 

[Sonofason]

I agree that not a lot of people share there religious experience's, but I shall share mine. At least a general view of them.

My religion is very Experiential based, what this means is it is seen and felt by doing and acting. Through experience. So I interact with my Gods regularly through various daily activities. Meditation, a walk through the woods, picking up trash from around a tree, the smell of moist soil after a nights rain, and even hearing the booming clap of thunder or the warm caress of the sun.

But the two most profound experiences I have had, was when a Goddess visited me via a crow, and when I later meditated on that Goddess.

While I was sitting in a meeting, I could not concentrate, I was having difficulty staying fully focused, something kept pulling my attention outside. When I finally found what was pulling me, it turned out to be a crow it was sitting on the bush directly out the window behind me. When I looked at this crow, it looked me in the eyes and I felt an immense feeling of being 'known" and comforted at the same time. It was a pure feeling of being loved and respected, it was from this that I started my research and found the Goddess Morrigan.

I was unconvinced by this experience at first, but it kept nagging me at the back of my mind. It was all I could think about for several months, until one day I decided to do something about it. So I set out to meditate on the image of this Goddess, and while doing so a sense of relief and welcoming washed over me, and I knew that she had been calling me all along.

Since then I have had experiences with two other deities/and a tree spirit, but I will not get in to the nitty gritty of those experiences.

As for the question, what did I do to enable me to have that experience? It's really pretty simple. I became wordlessly aware of the divinity that was all around me, I kept my mouth shut and my ears and mind open. I respected the land, and the people around me.

As for the question, what did I do to deserve the attention of the Gods: I am certain they were there all along, just waiting for me to pay attention.

That is interesting. I have had a several experiences of God myself, and I have to say it's not so easy to explain. It is a feeling. I have often thought to try to explain my experiences, but the words usually come out rather mundane.

But it occurred to me what the experience was like for me, and so I will explain it through analogy.

Consider that a human being exists as a frequency, perhaps as a frequency of sound, that can fluctuate to some degree as a result of one's state of mind, according to his thoughts. And God also exists as a frequency, though in my estimation it would be an unchanging frequency, as God doesn't change. He is perfect, and there is no cause for Him to change. God desires that we exist on His frequency, but most of the time, we don't. But sometimes, perhaps as a result of some particular stimuli, our frequency finds God's frequency, and the sound resonates. That's how I feel when I experience God, as though I am resonating with God. But then something changes, I become distracted in some way, and that feeling, that resonation goes away, until we find ourselves once again in that perfect state of mind, when we are once again in union with God.

 

[The Hammer]

And who is it that was listening? Who are you in this experience? IOW, are you not also the divine essence, experiencing yourself as a listener, an experiencer?

Ok, I had to go read some of your previous points to understand your point of view. I understand and see what it is that you are saying. While I believe that all things are interconnected in a web of life, I don't believe in the universal mind concept. So with that, of course I am experiencing myself, I am also experiencing the divines. And while I do have the spark of Nwyfre in me, so does everything. I am not the essence, in as much as the essence is not me. But we are one.

That is interesting. I have had a several experiences of God myself, and I have to say it's not so easy to explain. It is a feeling. I have often thought to try to explain my experiences, but the words usually come out rather mundane.

But it occurred to me what the experience was like for me, and so I will explain it through analogy.

Consider that a human being exists as a frequency, perhaps as a frequency of sound, that can fluctuate to some degree as a result of one's state of mind, according to his thoughts. And God also exists as a frequency, though in my estimation it would be an unchanging frequency, as God doesn't change. He is perfect, and there is no cause for Him to change. God desires that we exist on His frequency, but most of the time, we don't. But sometimes, perhaps as a result of some particular stimuli, our frequency finds God's frequency, and the sound resonates. That's how I feel when I experience God, as though I am resonating with God. But then something changes, I become distracted in some way, and that feeling, that resonation goes away, until we find ourselves once again in that perfect state of mind, when we are once again in union with God.

I agree that sometimes finding the mundane words to put those experiences into are almost always lacking. It's also why I like the term experiential.

It's like you mentioned, a frequency, a communication and feeling on a mental level. This is also why I prefer meditation to work with my Deities, this is the best way to open oneself up to these experiences. And that requires something not a lot of people are willing to invest the time in, which is sitting quietly and just being aware. The state of mind can be fleeting when found, but it is always reassuring when reached in this manner.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

There can be no mistake that Jesus's statement pointed directly to his divine union with the Father. Just a random search from a Christian source reveals the following:

"...Jesus claimed to be one with the Father as part of a larger argument to note that He had existed from eternity past, lived in perfect oneness with the Father, held the same power as God, and was sent by God the Father’s authority."

Read more: What did Jesus mean when He said, ‘I and the Father are one’ (John 10:30)?

There are simply too many Eastern references to Jesus as savior, messiah, teacher, etc. and that are independent from one another for them to be mere coincidence. These references are from Persia, Tibet, Nepal, China, and India.

You denigrate good information as 'crap research' simply because you are knee-jerk defensive about your beliefs. As just one example of what I am referring to, we have the following:

"Buddhist records also show that Gautama Buddha(as) had prophesied the coming of a second Buddha whom he named Metteyya. This prophecy is contained in Lagavati Sutta1, a Buddhist record to which reference is made on page 142 of Oldenberg’s book. It reads as follows:


‘He will be the leader of a band of disciples numbering hundreds of thousands, as I am now the leader of bands of disciples, numbering hundreds…’

It should be remembered that the Pali name ‘Metteyya’ is the same as ‘Mashiha’ in Hebrew…The future Metteyya prophesied by [the] Buddha(as) is none other than the Messiah himself. One strong evidence in support of this is that the Buddha(as) himself prophesied that the faith he had founded would not endure on earth for more than five hundred years, and that at the time of the decline of the faith and its teachings, the Metteyya would appear in this country to re-establish these moral teachings in the world. We find that Jesus(as) appeared 500 years after the Buddha(as) and, just as the Buddha(as) had foretold the time for the decline of his faith, Buddhism suffered deterioration and decadence. It was then that Jesus(as), having escaped from the cross, travelled to these areas where the Buddhists recognised him and treated him with great reverence…*

It must be noted that the name Metteyya in Buddhist literature undoubtedly refers to the Messiah. On page 14 of the book Tibet, Tartary, Mongolia by H.T. Prinsep, it is written about the Metteyya Buddha, who in reality is the Messiah, that the first Christian missionaries, having heard and seen at first conditions obtaining in Tibet, came to the conclusion that in the ancient books of the Lamas there were to be found traces of the Christian religion. On the same page it is stated that there is no doubt about it that these earlier writers believed that some disciples of Jesus(as) were still alive when the Christian faith reached there. On page 171 it is stated that there is not the slightest doubt that at that time everybody was eagerly waiting for the great Saviour to appear. Tacitus says that the Jews were not the lone holders of this belief, Buddhism too was responsible for laying the foundations of this expectation, inasmuch as it prophesied the coming of Metteyya. The author of the English work has moreover added a note to the effect that the books Pitakattayan and Attha-katha contain a clear prophecy about the advent of another Buddha who would appear a thousand years after Gautama or Shakya Muni. Gautama states that he is the twenty-fifth Buddha and that the Bagwa Metteyya is still to come; that is why after he has gone, one whose name will be Metteyya and who will be fair-skinned will come…This is why the followers of Buddhism had all along been waiting for the Messiah to appear in their country.

The Buddha(as), in his prophesy about the future Buddha, called him Bagwa Metteyya. Bagwa in Sanskrit means ‘white’. Jesus(as), being of Syrian origin, was Bagwa – of white complexion. The people of the land where this prophecy was made, i.e., Magadh, where Raja Griha was located, were dark-skinned and Gautama Buddha(as) himself was dark. Therefore, the Buddha(as) related to his followers two distinct signs of the future Buddha: first that he would be Bagwa – of white complexion, and secondly, he would be Metteyya – a traveller who would arrive from a foreign land…"

- See more at: The Essence of Islam – Evidence from Buddhist Scriptures that Jesus(as) travelled to Kashmir - The Review of Religions

*The reference here is to the Buddhist monastery at Hemis in the Himalayas, where Jesus was referred to as 'our beloved St. Issa', which translates as 'savior' and 'prophet'.

The "I and my Father are one" verse is a reference to the Trinity. I don't need you to explain it to me or post an article from an Evangelical website.

Okay, so you have some vague Buddhist verses that are being reinterpreted by a heretical Islamic sect. Color me not convinced. A poster on these forums who is a member of that sect keeps posting "Jesus in India" junk over and over but it's always laughable.

Thanks but no, thanks.

Rejection by modern mainstream Christian scholarship
Modern mainstream Christian scholarship has generally rejected any travels by Jesus to India, Tibet or surrounding areas as without historical basis:

• Robert Van Voorst states that modern scholarship has "almost unanimously agreed" that claims of the travels of Jesus to Tibet, Kashmir or rest of India contain "nothing of value".[8]

• Marcus Borg states that the suggestions that an adult Jesus traveled to Egypt or India and came into contact with Buddhism are "without historical foundation".[9]
• John Dominic Crossan states that none of the theories presented about the travels of Jesus to fill the gap between his early life and the start of his ministry have been supported by modern scholarship.[7]
• Leslie Houlden states that although modern parallels between the teachings of Jesus and Buddha have been drawn, these comparisons emerged after missionary contacts in the 19th century and there is no historically reliable evidence of contacts between Buddhism and Jesus.[40]
• Paula Fredriksen states that no serious scholarly work places Jesus outside the backdrop of 1st century Palestinian Judaism.[41]

Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[godnotgod]

The "I and my Father are one" verse is a reference to the Trinity. I don't need you to explain it to me or post an article from an Evangelical website.

I was aware it is a reference to the Trinity, but so what? That does not change the fact of divine union of Jesus to the Father. Instead, it galvanizes it. Once again, the statement is one of mystical union. Jesus, or rather, Yeshua, was a Jewish mystic; a Nazarene, to be specific.

 

[Sonofason]

No, he would not, simply because he is still following the idol, Christ. A perfected individual is one who is simply at one with his own nature.

But the question here is: can the imperfect be made perfect, or is that which is seen as imperfect merely an illusion? If the imperfect cannot be made perfect, then it is not part of the final equation, and if that is the case, then the follower of Christ must end up to be not a follower of Christ. He must end up as the Christ essence itself.

"That which you are seeking is causing you to seek"

Nope, in my opinion, that is pure nonsense and couldn't be any further from the truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one will get to the Father without Christ. It is Christ whom we must follow. In my honest opinion, this right here, this belch of indignation that you just defiled this page with is a blasphemous display of ignorance concerning your only hope of salvation.

 

[godnotgod]

The "I and my Father are one" verse is a reference to the Trinity. I don't need you to explain it to me or post an article from an Evangelical website.

Okay, so you have some vague Buddhist verses that are being reinterpreted by a heretical Islamic sect. Color me not convinced. A poster on these forums who is a member of that sect keeps posting "Jesus in India" junk over and over but it's always laughable.

Thanks but no, thanks.

Rejection by modern mainstream Christian scholarship
Modern mainstream Christian scholarship has generally rejected any travels by Jesus to India, Tibet or surrounding areas as without historical basis:

• Robert Van Voorst states that modern scholarship has "almost unanimously agreed" that claims of the travels of Jesus to Tibet, Kashmir or rest of India contain "nothing of value".[8]

• Marcus Borg states that the suggestions that an adult Jesus traveled to Egypt or India and came into contact with Buddhism are "without historical foundation".[9]
• John Dominic Crossan states that none of the theories presented about the travels of Jesus to fill the gap between his early life and the start of his ministry have been supported by modern scholarship.[7]
• Leslie Houlden states that although modern parallels between the teachings of Jesus and Buddha have been drawn, these comparisons emerged after missionary contacts in the 19th century and there is no historically reliable evidence of contacts between Buddhism and Jesus.[40]
• Paula Fredriksen states that no serious scholarly work places Jesus outside the backdrop of 1st century Palestinian Judaism.[41]

Unknown years of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can laugh all you wish, but the single reference I posted is far more than the paltry Biblical account of Jesus's 18 missing years as no more than a footnote to indicate his whereabouts. But wait. There's more. Much more. So to add a couple more tidbits to the pile, we have this:


"Buddhist records usually refer to Jesus as Issa-Masih, and Muslims use the name Yusu-Masih or some variant. One record of Jesus' sermons in Kashmir is in Bhavishya- maha-purana, written by Sutta in 115 CE. (18) Another record of Jesus' sermons in Kashmir was Tarikh-I-Kashmir, written later by the Muslim Mulla Nadri, who identified Jesus as Yuz-Asaph. (19) A Muslim record was Al-Shaikh Al-Said-us-Sadiq; Ikmal-ud-Din. (20) Another was the history of Kashmir written by Kalhana circa 1148 CE, which referred to Jesus as Isana, "the great guru" who impressed the king, Samdhi-mati. (21) A Persian account of Jesus in India is written around 900 CE by Al Shaikh Said-us-Sidiz and titled Mamal-Ud-Din. (22) Finally, the Apocalypse of Peter refers to Jesus sitting at one of the ten pillars erected in India by Ashoka: "As the Savior was sitting in the temple in the three hundredth (year) of the covenant and the agreement of the tenth pillar." (23) A passage in Song of the Yogi sung by Natha Yogas reads: "My friend Ishai has gone towards Arabia." A verse in the Puranas reads: "Having found the sacred image of Eeshai [God] in my heart, my name will be established as on the earth as Eesah Mashi [the Messiah]."

It might be useful to address two questions at this point:

1. Did Jesus remain in Nazareth during his entire 18 years, or did he travel, and how extensive were his travels?

2. Was there a Buddhistic presence/influence in and around Judea itself during those missing years? We know for a fact that there was definitely Buddhistic influence as far West as Egypt and Greece via the Buddhist King, Asoka, and we do know that Rome sent gold coins Eastward to purchase goods delivered back to the Near East along the Silk Road.

"Certainly, he [Jesus] was no hometown carpenter, and he probably traveled extensively throughout Asia Minor, which increased his exposure to Buddhism. His travel is indicated by the many records found in India and even China and the keen interest demonstrated by Buddhists and other Easterners.

The textual evidence shows that Buddhism not only had spread West through Silk Road travelers and contacts between East and West from the conquests of Alexander, but also had been deliberately propagated through emissaries sent from India during the third century BC. This influence is revealed both by the actions and statements of Jesus and by the Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah, a term probably derived from Sanskrit."

thezensite: Was Jesus a Buddhist?

 

[godnotgod]

Nope, in my opinion, that is pure nonsense and couldn't be any further from the truth. Christ is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one will get to the Father without Christ. It is Christ whom we must follow. In my honest opinion, this right here, this belch of indignation that you just defiled this page with is a blasphemous display of ignorance concerning your only hope of salvation.

Do you agree with Jesus that: "the Kingdom of God is within you"?

 

[Sonofason]

Do you agree with Jesus that: "the Kingdom of God is within you"?

Yes, I do.