Experiencing God

[Cephus]

No sir, I believe I am quite certain about my experience. And I believe I still dwell in the realm of belief.

You want to believe that you had that experience, you have done nothing whatsoever to discover if you actually had the experience as you describe it. Come on, be honest.

 

[Renji]

I am amazed that so many believers that have had "spiritual" experiences won't share their experiences with others. It ought not surprise me however, as I too have had "spiritual" experiences that I just will not share with anyone. I gather that the telling of such experiences puts one at risk of throwing one's pearls to the swine.

My experience of God has actually brought me to a point where I no longer require faith to believe in God. I am absolutely certain of his existence and presence in my life.

So I guess that leaves me with a question for those who have had God experiences. What do you think it was that you did which enabled you to experience what you experienced? What did you do to invoke God's attention?

Okay, so how did you know that it's 'spiritual' and not just the processes of your brain neurons? And yeah, why post or perhaps join in a debate forum on the first place even if it causes you 'to throw pearls into swine'?

 

[Sonofason]

You stated in a post after this that you have experienced the Kingdom of God within, which is, essentially to say that you have experienced God.

Well, yes I did say that, and yes I do experience God.

Do you experience life via the mind, or via consciousness? I make the distinction between mind and consciousness to mean that consciousness precedes mind. It is the default state. Mind is only present when one thinks about it. Therefore, it is a self-created principle, an illusion. Only consciousness is real.

You accidentally burn your finger on a hot stove, and immediately recoil. That is an experience via consciousness. There is no immediate thought of your burning your finger, only the immediate reaction 'Ouch!'. Immediately afterwards, the thought comes: 'Oh, I burned my finger!". That is mind thinking about the experience afterwards, but not present during the experience.

We do not experience the divine nature via the mind. It is not a planned event, but a spontaneous one. Why? Because the nature of mind is to encapsulate reality via concept, but the divine nature can never be so encapsulated or contained via concept. It is not a conceptual idea, but a living presence dwelling in this eternal Present Moment.

There are a few documented cases of individuals who have had high IQ's and lived seemingly normal lives, and who were discovered to not have a brain, or much of a brain at all.

If you think its important that recognize the distinction between the mind and consciousness, I can do that. What you say here seems reasonable to me. Except, it is my belief that if you remove someone's brain, they will not experience anything at all. They will be dead.

 

[Cephus]

Okay, so how did you know that it's 'spiritual' and not just the processes of your brain neurons? And yeah, why post or perhaps join in a debate forum on the first place even if it causes you 'to throw pearls into swine'?

That's exactly the point that I keep asking. How does someone who claims to have had an experience with a god know they have had an experience with a god? What tests have they put the experience to? How did they verify it was with the god of their choice? What have they done to prove any of it? The answer, of course, is they've done nothing, they just pick a solution that they emotionally prefer and demand that it must be true. And then they get upset when rational people question the veracity of their empty claims.

Go figure.

 

[Cephus]

Well, yes I did say that, and yes I do experience God.

And how do you know that? Where is your evidence?

 

[Thruve]

It is remarkable.

When we hear a boom, we're kinda certain that we heard the boom.
When we perceive light, even when our eyes are closed, we can be most certain that we are experiencing light.
When we experience God, it is hard to dismiss that we are experiencing God.
When our skin is on fire, it's hard to dismiss the sensation of heat.

I agree with this entirely, except that we don't know what god is, if its even a single deity/entity.

 

[Cephus]

I agree with this entirely, except that we don't know what god is, if its even a single deity/entity.

Or even if it exists at all. Yet some people seem convinced that they have knowledge that such is true and entirely ignore the fact that they cannot possibly have that knowledge that they claim.

 

[Thruve]

Or even if it exists at all. Yet some people seem convinced that they have knowledge that such is true and entirely ignore the fact that they cannot possibly have that knowledge that they claim.

Im so sorry, but clearly you have never had such experiences, or you wouldn't even question.. let alone say that such knowledge is rubbish or unknowable. I don't question Sonofasons experiences, as I know hes not alone, because I've had a handful myself. Whether or not he sees god the same way I do, or you do, is a discussion more worth our while, not whether god exists or not. To me, it could be a deity, it could be the will of the universe via balance, it could be a spirit overseer, it could be anything, but the source of the experiences comes as pure intuition for us, and that good sir, is not up for you to debate. It comes from something.. I will tell you that much.

See, from his perspective, it is from the christian god, and where it came from surely wanted him to believe it was from the christian god. Thats all thats important, not whether it was from his perspective of the christian god, but that it came from something that naturally should be seen dam well as a god nonetheless.

 

[Sonofason]

You want to believe that you had that experience, you have done nothing whatsoever to discover if you actually had the experience as you describe it. Come on, be honest.

I believe facts. Doesn't that tell you where I stand? I believe that I experienced God because I believe I did experience God. Do I really need to say, "I know I experienced God"? I didn't just experience God once. I experience God very often, and sometimes for long durations of time. If I didn't know I had experienced God, I'd be saying, "I think I might have experienced God" or "I believe I might have experienced God".

For all I know I am a figment of God's imagination, and so I really don't know with absolute certainty that those things that I think I know are facts are actually facts. I say I believe something is true, because that is my perception of things. It is very likely that that which I believe is true is indeed true. I believe it is true. But I understand that I am a fallible human being, and it is certainly possible that what I think I know as fact, might not be a fact at all.

 

[Renji]

I believe facts. Doesn't that tell you where I stand? I believe that I experienced God because I believe I did experience God. Do I really need to say, "I know I experienced God"? I didn't just experience God once. I experience God very often, and sometimes for long durations of time. If I didn't know I had experienced God, I'd be saying, "I think I might have experienced God" or "I believe I might have experienced God".

For all I know I am a figment of God's imagination, and so I really don't know with absolute certainty that those things that I think I know are facts are actually facts. I say I believe something is true, because that is my perception of things. It is very likely that that which I believe is true is indeed true. I believe it is true. But I understand that I am a fallible human being, and it is certainly possible that what I think I know as fact, might not be a fact at all.

Fair enough.

 

[Sonofason]

Okay, so how did you know that it's 'spiritual' and not just the processes of your brain neurons? And yeah, why post or perhaps join in a debate forum on the first place even if it causes you 'to throw pearls into swine'?

I know that my experiences of God are experiences of God in the same way that you know that the person you see in the mirror every day is yourself.

I like debating. I get to show off my superior intellect to atheists. And just because I'm here debating with atheists does not necessitate that I throw them any pearls. I just said I don't do that. At least I do try to avoid doing that. If I do cast my pearls to the swine, I always seem to regret it.

 

[Cephus]

Im so sorry, but clearly you have never had such experiences, or you wouldn't even question.. let alone say that such knowledge is rubbish. I don't question Sonofasons experiences, as I know hes not alone, because I've had a handful myself. Whether or not he sees god the same way I do, or you do, is a discussion more worth our while, not whether god exists or not. To me, it could be a deity, it could be the will of the universe via balance, it could be a spirit overseer, it could be anything, but the source of the experiences comes as pure intuition for us, and that good sir, is not up for you to debate. It comes from something.. I will tell you that much.

Sure I have, I used to be a Christian. I just came to realize that I wasn't asking the right questions, or any questions, about these experiences. I was making assumptions, just as you are, about these experiences, you are taking things on blind faith, not testing the experiences to see what they really mean or why they really happen. Just arbitrarily assigning a cause to something because it makes you feel good to believe it was the cause is not rational.

That is a problem.

 

[Cephus]

I believe facts. Doesn't that tell you where I stand? I believe that I experienced God because I believe I did experience God. Do I really need to say, "I know I experienced God"? I didn't just experience God once. I experience God very often, and sometimes for long durations of time. If I didn't know I had experienced God, I'd be saying, "I think I might have experienced God" or "I believe I might have experienced God".

For all I know I am a figment of God's imagination, and so I really don't know with absolute certainty that those things that I think I know are facts are actually facts. I say I believe something is true, because that is my perception of things. It is very likely that that which I believe is true is indeed true. I believe it is true. But I understand that I am a fallible human being, and it is certainly possible that what I think I know as fact, might not be a fact at all.

And how do you know it was God? How do you know you weren't deluded? How do you know you weren't temporarily (or even permanently) insane? How do you know that it wasn't the devil of another pantheon messing with you? Where did you come up with the evidence to support your claim? I've asked you many, many times and, no surprise, you never have any answers. That makes me think that you've never done any of these things, never asked any of these questions and that is a problem. Being honest about your beliefs and not making claims that you cannot support evidentially is the only rational way to behave.

 

[Renji]

I know that my experiences of God are experiences of God in the same way that you know that the person you see in the mirror every day is yourself.

So you say it's a 'reality' because you believe so? How about if someone says that he has seen the flying spaghetti monster and tells you it's real because he believes in it, do you think it's logical to accept that?

I get to show off my superior intellect to atheists.

Goodluck doing that.

 

[Thruve]

Sure I have, I used to be a Christian. I just came to realize that I wasn't asking the right questions, or any questions, about these experiences. I was making assumptions, just as you are, about these experiences, you are taking things on blind faith, not testing the experiences to see what they really mean or why they really happen. Just arbitrarily assigning a cause to something because it makes you feel good to believe it was the cause is not rational.

That is a problem.

The problem is that you ever even considered yourself a christian dude, in my opinion atleast. I can say that I love Jesus, but I feel weird calling myself a christian because I see Christianity as a bunch of BS. Atleast, we made it into a bunch of BS. I don't see Jesus as religion, I see christianity overall as a religion. I have a hard time reading scripture and taking meaning from it the way I find most others do as a result. If I had a baby, Id raise him in the wilderness, give him a bible, and see what he makes of it without having the garbage that the world stirs into the mix. Im curious as to what he would define himself as as he got older. See where I stand in reference to christianity/god/religion now?

Now the difference between Sonofason and me is that Im not assuming its god (deity assumed under christian faith). What my intuition tells me though is that this is something spiritually innovating, and that wherever it came from was merely more than just coincidence. Something innovated me.. knows me.. knows where Im going to be.. knew what I was thinking.. knew the problem I was having.. Knew my desperation.. and Knew how to fix me. My intuition tells me thats not just from coincidence. Where ever it comes from, I call THAT GOD.

The experience was real, and I do have the right to make the call whether it came from the christian god if thats what I so believed, because where ever it came from, it would of have made sure that that was the case, and at the time of my experiences, it did just that for a purpose. See how Im leaving room for your argument too?

Go read his first post again, now see how differently you view it.

Also, for the record, the experiences have gone both ways. To assume god is the cause of the bad experiences too is not... a good feeling dude o-o In which case its often better to assume he wasn't the cause which is where faith turns you around corners and on paths that can be quite.. well.. they may just lead you through some pretty dark valleys =)

 

[Sonofason]

And how do you know it was God? How do you know you weren't deluded? How do you know you weren't temporarily (or even permanently) insane? How do you know that it wasn't the devil of another pantheon messing with you? Where did you come up with the evidence to support your claim? I've asked you many, many times and, no surprise, you never have any answers. That makes me think that you've never done any of these things, never asked any of these questions and that is a problem. Being honest about your beliefs and not making claims that you cannot support evidentially is the only rational way to behave.

That's just nonsense, and you know it. Deluded? Get a grip. If my experiences of God are delusions, then I'm in big trouble, because I experience God quite often. You guys really don't get it, do you? God is the most important thing in my life. My day is filled with constant prayer, and thoughtfulness toward God. He and I have a relationship. He loves me, and I love Him. I desire to be near to Him, and He draws near to me.

I have experienced the devil as well, and I can tell you that an experience of the devil is nothing like experiencing God.

I speak with many Christians, and I can assure you that I am not alone in my experience of God. I have researched my experience. And depending on who you talk to, and the bias of the resources for the research, you will get different answers. Christians all agree. Atheists all call it delusion. But they're just mad because they either can't have the experience themselves, or they've had it once and never received it again. Experiencing God is a gift from God. It is not a skill. It's not a sickness. It's a gift. God gives this gift to those who think rightly, in accordance with His will. And God has blessed me. And He does bless me when I am thinking rightly.

 

[Cephus]

That's just nonsense, and you know it. Deluded? Get a grip. If my experiences of God are delusions, then I'm in big trouble, because I experience God quite often.

Maybe you need to seek professional help.

 

[Sonofason]

Maybe you need to seek professional help.

Maybe you need to grow up.

I'm really getting tired of this pathetic baby talk from atheists Please stop. If you have an argument present it. If not, just keep your mouth shut.

 

[Sonofason]

Where are the moderators when you need them?

 

[Sonofason]

So you say it's a 'reality' because you believe so? How about if someone says that he has seen the flying spaghetti monster and tells you it's real because he believes in it, do you think it's logical to accept that?


Goodluck doing that.

That's baby talk. Come on, if you want to believe in flying spaghetti monsters, go ahead and believe in them. Why do atheist persist in presenting the false premise, as if there were really people who believe in flying spaghetti monsters. Look, I experience God, you don't. I will continue to experience God. You never will. I will live eternally in heaven. You will not.