Experiencing God

[Sonofason]

You aren't exactly giving a ringing endorsement for your religion. In my experience, non-imaginary things can be seen by anyone.

That which could be seen by everyone is not always seen by everyone.

"But, the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
(1 Corinthians 2:14)

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
(1 Corinthians 1:18)

Not everyone is capable of seeing everything that others can see. Some people have created stumbling blocks for themselves that shall never be removed.

"And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
(Revelation 22:11)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That which could be seen by everyone is not always seen by everyone.

"But, the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."
(1 Corinthians 2:14)

"For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
(1 Corinthians 1:18)

Not everyone is capable of seeing everything that others can see. Some people have created stumbling blocks for themselves that shall never be removed.

"And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand. He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."
(Revelation 22:11)

I have a very hard time seeing this as anything more than excuse-making for why many accept your particular belief system.

It's not because your religion has no more support than any others; it's not because you've failed to properly make your case; it's because there's something fundamentally wrong with all the people who don't buy what you're selling... right?

 

[Sonofason]

I have a very hard time seeing this as anything more than excuse-making for why many accept your particular belief system.

It's not because your religion has no more support than any others; it's not because you've failed to properly make your case; it's because there's something fundamentally wrong with all the people who don't buy what you're selling... right?

Yes, exactly. If one refuses to love God, there is something terribly wrong and ungodly with that person, and such a willful act isn't welcome in God's presence. And such a willful act shall not exist in God's presence. God is refining gold, and gold production requires refining. It involves removing impurities that remain after the smelting process. You're being smelted. Where's the gold?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Yes, exactly. If one refuses to love God, there is something terribly wrong and ungodly with that person, and such a willful act isn't welcome in God's presence. And such a willful act shall not exist in God's presence. God is refining gold, and gold production requires refining. It involves removing impurities that remain after the smelting process. You're being smelted. Where's the gold?

You've created a system where any criticism of your beliefs is deflected away. This is not a reliable pathway to truth.

 

[Sonofason]

You've created a system where any criticism of your beliefs is deflected away. This is not a reliable pathway to truth.

Indeed. "I can do all things through Him who strengthens me."
(Philippians 4:13)

Look at my avatar. Look in his left hand. It should be no wonder that puny criticisms should be reflected by such a shield of faith.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Indeed.

So you agree with me?

"I can do all things through Him who strengthens me."
(Philippians 4:13)

Look at my avatar. Look in his left hand. It should be no wonder that puny criticisms should be reflected by such a shield of faith.

Ah... you have a cartoon, therefore you're right. Unassailable logic.

 

[AllanV]

No god is god and light is light. With this logic Krishna is light and so is a totem pole. Light is a form of radiation and has nothing to do with a god. From what you speak of I would not have much to say about your experiences except that you seek psychiatric help but it is best to be evaluated first. Sometimes such things are included with your health plan so it may not be that expensive.

Psa 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
The whole reality of God making everything seen appear at every instant is impossible to grasp fully. When young I remember looking out into the night sky and trying to think how big and far the universe is. Can't imagine it and it is best not to do it.
For a long time man has created a god how they imagine and place limitations on knowing God as He requests. They make idols of even their own opinions.

The topic is "Experiencing God" and why don"t people relate their experiences.
God observes everyone from the inside just beyond and deeper than the mind that is thought from. God is close at hand and not far off as the scriptures say.

 

[AllanV]

Well, as I see it, a major problem with sharing such experiences with people is that they have nothing to compare them with. That is, the experiences are incomparable and thus people who have no similar experiences have no proper frame of reference for them. Instead, they almost inevitably try to fit what you're saying into whatever frame of reference they do have, which is usually something quite ordinary.

Another problem with sharing is that it seems to have not much purpose to it.

It is a bit like learning engineering or electronics. If a person is not interested there is no point.
Most people do not even know how a vehicle works that's without even fixing it. They just hop in and drive and they mistakenly think they're good at that.

And of course there is the tendency to be like that with our own life and existence. The body is something that is driven along through life bumping into other objects in the process.

To some there tends to be no purpose in life at all and it all seems somewhat futile.
But seeing everything in a wider or deeper context helps a lot

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is a bit like learning engineering or electronics. If a person is not interested there is no point.
Most people do not even know how a vehicle works that's without even fixing it. They just hop in and drive and they mistakenly think they're good at that.

Of course, there's another analogy: gamblers.

Have you ever talked to people who regularly play slot machines? They build elaborate belief systems about how the machines work as they watch the random noise of their payouts, but in actuality, their ideas aren't based on anything real at all.

How do we tell if someone has real knowledge of a thing like an engineer or false knowledge like a gambler? The only way I know is to use evidence.

 

[Thief]

Of course, there's another analogy: gamblers.

Have you ever talked to people who regularly play slot machines? They build elaborate belief systems about how the machines work as they watch the random noise of their payouts, but in actuality, their ideas aren't based on anything real at all.

How do we tell if someone has real knowledge of a thing like an engineer or false knowledge like a gambler? The only way I know is to use evidence.

I'm a toolmaker.
Never met an engineer that understood die sets better than I do.

Engineers think they know for all the books they've read.
Gamblers think they know....just because.....

I believe in God for cause and reason.

 

[AllanV]

Of course, there's another analogy: gamblers.

Have you ever talked to people who regularly play slot machines? They build elaborate belief systems about how the machines work as they watch the random noise of their payouts, but in actuality, their ideas aren't based on anything real at all.

How do we tell if someone has real knowledge of a thing like an engineer or false knowledge like a gambler? The only way I know is to use evidence.

Faith is meant to be evidence based. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is energetic and it will clean the heart. But then there is a need to be able to hear. It is something quite deep. It is all in the scriptures but who is able to understand them, they have been twisted somewhat.
I have given up interacting with "Christians" they really have no depth to them and their superficial manner leaves them vulnerable to deception. I am generalizing.

When you mentioned gambler I immediately thought of my mother. She has passed away now, but gave me many years of a close example with much discussion and even argument and I understand what you are saying.

 

[AllanV]

I'm a toolmaker.
Never met an engineer that understood die sets better than I do.

Engineers think they know for all the books they've read.
Gamblers think they know....just because.....

I believe in God for cause and reason.

It all goes beyond thinking that you know it all because it is like being tested in a fire.
Everyone tends to learn by their mistakes but in engineering you can't really make any, it is too expensive. Therefore processes and methods are followed where when a mistake is made the situation is retrievable.
When the mind is applied to fine detail it does cover everything the eye focuses on.
In an experience of God there is some difficulty because it has been there all the time just a little beyond and deeper than usual focus. Seeing is believing but can the unseen be shown.

 

[Thief]

It all goes beyond thinking that you know it all because it is like being tested in a fire.
Everyone tends to learn by their mistakes but in engineering you can't really make any, it is too expensive. Therefore processes and methods are followed where when a mistake is made the situation is retrievable.
When the mind is applied to fine detail it does cover everything the eye focuses on.
In an experience of God there is some difficulty because it has been there all the time just a little beyond and deeper than usual focus. Seeing is believing but can the unseen be shown.

an excessive response......

Engineers make the most expensive mistakes.
(I know....I've lost employments for paper 'boobooes')

God can be thought about....just not proven.
Be sure in your technique....

 

[Sonofason]

So you agree with me?


Ah... you have a cartoon, therefore you're right. Unassailable logic.

Sure, I agree with you. The trustworthiness of God's Word has enabled me to construct an impenetrable shield. I agree with you.

 

[Sonofason]

Psa 104:2 Who coverest thyself with light as with a garment: who stretchest out the heavens like a curtain:
The whole reality of God making everything seen appear at every instant is impossible to grasp fully. When young I remember looking out into the night sky and trying to think how big and far the universe is. Can't imagine it and it is best not to do it.
For a long time man has created a god how they imagine and place limitations on knowing God as He requests. They make idols of even their own opinions.

The topic is "Experiencing God" and why don"t people relate their experiences.
God observes everyone from the inside just beyond and deeper than the mind that is thought from. God is close at hand and not far off as the scriptures say.

Well said.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure, I agree with you. The trustworthiness of God's Word has enabled me to construct an impenetrable shield. I agree with you.

This seems to be circular logic ("'God's Word' is trustworthy, therefore it's unassailable, and is therefore trustworthy.") If so, if it is "impenetrable", then this isn't a point in its favour.

 

[AllanV]

an excessive response......

Engineers make the most expensive mistakes.
(I know....I've lost employments for paper 'boobooes')

God can be thought about....just not proven.
Be sure in your technique....

It depends who is establishing the truth. It is like a crime scene. With the evidence the police often convict the wrong person but as technology changes, well not guilty, but their minds are set and it takes a long time to get the prisoner released. This is how processes work.
God isn't where we think, therefore what stands in the place of God in the mind. Think about what goes on in own mind. Most keep up continual distraction because they don't like whats going on in there and are impulsive only. The personality is encumbered.
God's request is to Know Him therefore it must be possible. A veil was put in place that hides God and the potential to be immortal and it is genetically passed on. The blockage is established strongly while interacting with others because it takes some mind power and a strong personality even with obvious flaws.

 

[Sonofason]

This seems to be circular logic ("'God's Word' is trustworthy, therefore it's unassailable, and is therefore trustworthy.") If so, if it is "impenetrable", then this isn't a point in its favour.

Sure, from your perspective, I would suppose it isn't. You, perhaps being bent on convincing me to dismiss the truth ought to find it quite disturbing that God's trustworthiness is indeed unassailable and impenetrable.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure, from your perspective, I would suppose it isn't. You, perhaps being bent on convincing me to dismiss the truth ought to find it quite disturbing that God's trustworthiness is indeed unassailable and impenetrable.

I'm not "bent on" convincing you of anything. I'm interested in understanding theistic perspectives better, and so far, I've given you the benefit of the doubt by hoping that the irrational garbage you've provided so far aren't the real reasons you believe.

Virtually every religion has its own believers claiming the unassailability of their own beliefs, including those that conflict with yours. When you join the chorus too, the only message you communicate to me is that Christianity is just another religion, no more special than any of the many others.

 

[Thief]

It depends who is establishing the truth. It is like a crime scene. With the evidence the police often convict the wrong person but as technology changes, well not guilty, but their minds are set and it takes a long time to get the prisoner released. This is how processes work.
God isn't where we think, therefore what stands in the place of God in the mind. Think about what goes on in own mind. Most keep up continual distraction because they don't like whats going on in there and are impulsive only. The personality is encumbered.
God's request is to Know Him therefore it must be possible. A veil was put in place that hides God and the potential to be immortal and it is genetically passed on. The blockage is established strongly while interacting with others because it takes some mind power and a strong personality even with obvious flaws.

Let's say Someone Greater establishes the truth.
He can do so because He is greater.

We might error in whose fault the sin might be.
I don't think heaven can be deceived.