Experiencing God

[Sonofason]

You are free to interpret your experience as you see fit, and so am I. While I don't think it's downright impossible for there to be a deity that causes such experiences, I also don't think that explanation is likely to be true.

Personally, I'm far more inclined toward believing that there are natural explanations that we're just not aware of yet, especially given how complex the human brain is; as I said earlier, I think Occam's Razor favors that viewpoint because it doesn't contain as many assumptions as one about the existence of a deity and the nature of that deity.

It's interesting to me how boring a debate can become when the parties of the debate don't make outrageous unsubstantiated as a matter of fact claims.

 

[Sonofason]

An argument from ignorance (e.g. what you're giving here) is never the most rational approach.

Then I'd stop using them if I were you.

 

[Sonofason]

The Bible also describes God speaking to Noah directly. Apparently, if your scriptures are true, God is capable of communicating in ways that are much less vague and ambiguous than rainbows. Why not expect God to communicate that way today? Supposedly, if God wanted us to know something, he would be more than capable of telling us clearly. Why doesn't he?

God spoke to Noah because Noah was a righteous man. If God is not speaking to you, well...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Then I'd stop using them if I were you.

Exactly what argument from ignorance do you think I'm using?

God spoke to Noah because Noah was a righteous man. If God is not speaking to you, well...

Was Saul also a righteous man when God spoke to him on the road to Damascus?

 

[Sonofason]

Exactly what argument from ignorance do you think I'm using?

Was Saul also a righteous man when God spoke to him on the road to Damascus?

Oh sorry, I was just exchanging verbal attacks. I didn't see any argument from ignorance coming from me, so I supposed that you were just saying it under false pretenses. So I did the same to you. If you truly think that I was using an argument from ignorance, which one was it? I mean, when you said that I was using an argument from ignorance, you didn't really support your claim. How about doing that now, and we can take it from there.

 

[Thief]

The Bible also describes God speaking to Noah directly. Apparently, if your scriptures are true, God is capable of communicating in ways that are much less vague and ambiguous than rainbows. Why not expect God to communicate that way today? Supposedly, if God wanted us to know something, he would be more than capable of telling us clearly. Why doesn't he?

Direct instruction leads to direct dependence.

Call upon God for sunshine on your crop and the next farmer will pray for rain.

Have a neighbor problem?
Ask God.

and not one human will learn to deal with anything.....not one.

and not one human will develop the spirit it takes to survive the last breath.

all spirit would then perish.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Direct instruction leads to direct dependence.

So you disagree with the "teach a man to fish and you feed him for life" school of thought, eh?

Call upon God for sunshine on your crop and the next farmer will pray for rain.

Have a neighbor problem?
Ask God.

and not one human will learn to deal with anything.....not one.

and not one human will develop the spirit it takes to survive the last breath.

all spirit would then perish.

You seem to have a robust fantasy life. You wouldn't happen to have a rational basis for any of this, would you?

 

[Thief]

So you disagree with the "teach a man to fish and you feed him for life" school of thought, eh?


You seem to have a robust fantasy life. You wouldn't happen to have a rational basis for any of this, would you?

You are either interested in meeting your Creator....or not.

If you have no such interest toward heaven....
I suspect heaven will return the attitude and intent.....likewise.

 

[hayman]

You are either interested in meeting your Creator....or not.

If you have no such interest toward heaven....
I suspect heaven will return the attitude and intent.....likewise.

Have you met or spoken to the creator you're referring to?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Oh sorry, I was just exchanging verbal attacks. I didn't see any argument from ignorance coming from me, so I supposed that you were just saying it under false pretenses. So I did the same to you. If you truly think that I was using an argument from ignorance, which one was it? I mean, when you said that I was using an argument from ignorance, you didn't really support your claim. How about doing that now, and we can take it from there.

I assumed it would be obvious (wrongly, apparently).

An argument from ignorance is an argument of the form "unless you have evidence showing that X is false, I'm justified in believing that X is true." It's based on a logical fallacy.

This is what you did in the post I replied to:

But it makes a great deal less sense to suggest without any evidence whatsoever that the experience is not indeed an experience of God. In view of this lack of knowledge on your part, I feel most inclined to continue believing that what I have perceived to be an experience of God is indeed an experience of God.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are either interested in meeting your Creator....or not.

If you have no such interest toward heaven....
I suspect heaven will return the attitude and intent.....likewise.

I ask for a rational basis for your suppositions and instead you gave me more supposition.

I hope the world you've constructed in your head is pleasant and sunny.

 

[Thief]

Have you met or spoken to the creator you're referring to?

Like everyone else....I'm breathing and learning all I can before I die.
THAT is the purpose of life.
(there is no mystery)

The life is like unto a Sower casting seed with any manner.

no doubt you've heard the parable.
If you can't hear the parable (having ears that hear).....
how then anything else or anything more?

If you can't life a pebble.....
How then to set in place (with skill)......the Cornerstone of your house.

 

[Thief]

I ask for a rational basis for your suppositions and instead you gave me more supposition.

I hope the world you've constructed in your head is pleasant and sunny.

and I will share it with anyone of peace.....this world and the next.

 

[hayman]

Like everyone else....I'm breathing and learning all I can before I die.
THAT is the purpose of life.
(there is no mystery)

The life is like unto a Sower casting seed with any manner.

no doubt you've heard the parable.
If you can't hear the parable (having ears that hear).....
how then anything else or anything more?

If you can't life a pebble.....
How then to set in place (with skill)......the Cornerstone of your house.

It was a yes or no question. Have you met and or communicated with the creator you are referring to?

 

[Thief]

It was a yes or no question. Have you met and or communicated with the creator you are referring to?

Like everyone else.....I will observe and deduce.
You should do the same.

The result will be judged after your last breath.

If you're asking for proof.....
there will be no photo, no fingerprint, no equation and no repeatable experiment.

God will not prove Himself to you.

It's suppose to be the other way around.

 

[hayman]

So that would be a *no*.

You've never met or communicated with what you are referring to as the creator.

 

[Cephus]

Cephus I was actually quoting from the Bible. Please check your facts next time, okay?

It doesn't matter where the stupidity came from, it doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[Cephus]

Exactly what argument from ignorance do you think I'm using?

Come on, this is just the religious version of "I know you are but what am I?" It's what happens when they get backed into a corner, which happens constantly.

 

[AllanV]

Identifying a natural event and slapping "God" on it is not impressive, sorry.

When Deuteronomy 28 is read it is rather sobering. Some say that 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel have been dispersed and lost amongst the nations. A nation and company of nations and a Nation. Britain and its commonwealth, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the nation of the USA. These nations were given by birth right great wealth and power over other nations, but the condition was that they behaved correctly and maintained a belief in the true God.
These nations are loosing their power and dominance progressively and their general society is corrupt and unjust. Technology has been built and chemical industries that are able to destroy the earth.

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Stand back and take an overview of what has been and is happening in the world.

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (Turkey, Syria, Iraq. and then into the sea)
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. ( the USA was reported on the news yesterday as preparing missile deployment of one hour.)
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. (200 million) (The whole world military is 0.38% or 45million at the moment)

Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

 

[Cephus]

When Deuteronomy 28 is read it is rather sobering. Some say that 10 of the 12 tribes of Israel have been dispersed and lost amongst the nations. A nation and company of nations and a Nation. Britain and its commonwealth, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the nation of the USA. These nations were given by birth right great wealth and power over other nations, but the condition was that they behaved correctly and maintained a belief in the true God.
These nations are loosing their power and dominance progressively and their general society is corrupt and unjust. Technology has been built and chemical industries that are able to destroy the earth.

Amo 9:8 Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Deu 28:49 The LORD shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
Deu 28:50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:

Stand back and take an overview of what has been and is happening in the world.

Rev 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates. (Turkey, Syria, Iraq. and then into the sea)
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. ( the USA was reported on the news yesterday as preparing missile deployment of one hour.)
Rev 9:16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them. (200 million) (The whole world military is 0.38% or 45million at the moment)

Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Rev 9:18 By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.

I said natural event, not fantasy book. Try again.