Perhaps, although I seem to be far less certain than most.
The discovery of extraterrestrial intelligence would weigh in favor of theism.
By the way, extraterrestrial intelligence =/= intelligent life The distinction is significant..
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Extraterrestrial Life
- Thread starter izzy88
- Start date
By the way, extraterrestrial intelligence =/= intelligent life The distinction is significant..
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
It's all maths According to scientists there are at least 100 billion observable galaxies in this universe.Now it will be impossible for life to not exist anywhere else except earth. Given 100 billion galaxies with average of 9 planets in each galaxy, the probability that life exists some where else becomes extremely high.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I remember how excited I got when scientists speculated they just saw a Dyson sphere out there.
While that matter has since been settled, my excitement has not.
I don't think I'll ever get tired of the search for life and if perchance we do find it, to see how different or unique life can be out there.
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
God - the idea favoured by fundamentalist religions, or chance - the spinning chaotic fate of the universe that can be explained and accurately conjectured about through science.
Was this really necessary?
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
Maybe I'm crazy.
But what would your reaction be if I told you that dinosaurs still exist outside our world?
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
Maybe
God or chance? There are only two possibilities for the origins of intelligent life in the universe.
Nah - it was just petty.
@izzy88 In my opinion, Abrahamic religions already believe in a kind of alien species ... "angelic life": that is, disembodied spirits characterised by intelligent agency in the absence of organic bodies. If you believe in the existence of these 'angelic beings' that purportedly aren't homo sapiens nor even entities evolved from organic life on earth, then you already admit the existence of 'extra-terrestrials' and ones, moreover, of a far higher degree of complex intelligence than human beings:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Heaven and Earth
These hypothesised beings are not human, they are not terrestrial and they are not carbon - or more generally - chemical-based life. They are, in other words, aliens and importantly deemed to be (by those who believe in them) of a vastly superior intelligence to members of the human race.
But if we are talking about 'organic' lifeforms like ourselves - whether carbon or silicon-based or from some other chemical compound, if 'angels' allegedly exist then why not similarly intelligent organic beings elsewhere in the cosmos? There is nothing in the faith which denies this possibility, though it may not in fact be the case.
In the 15th century, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (then the Vicar-General of the Papal States) engaged in an exercise of proto-astrobiology - speculation concerning alien life on other, hypothesised, planetary bodies. He surmised that any intelligent beings on these "exo-worlds" would reflect the "elemental composition of those planets" and likely be of a somewhat - or even radically - different physiognomy or biochemistry to lifeforms on Earth:
Nicholas of Cusa on ET life and earth's motion ~ Irtiqa
See:
When Did Humans First Consider the Possibility of Alien Life?
Nearly six hundred years later, I think he probably wasn't far off the mark - even though we've yet to find the "smoking-gun" in terms of definitive evidence for habitable exoplanets (although we have many strong contenders) or indeed a persuasive answer to the "Fermi Paradox".
I mean, the possibility equally arises in my mind - invoking the anthropic principle - that we may be the first civilisation to arrive at an interstellar stage of development. Who can tell?
With reference to the probable implications of the discovery of sentient organic alien life for religious perspectives, though, I guess the first questions from a Christian perspective would be: are these beings 'fallen' like us or do they exist in a sinless state of mind?
Since God incarnated as a human being, Jesus Christ, what does that mean for these 'people' of an extra-earthly origin, alien physiology and (potentially even) biochemistry? Did he incarnate in their image as well? Are there divine incarnations springing into being all over the Cosmos or was the Christ-event a singular instance? If the latter, does that mean that these alien 'people' - despite being so physiologically distinct from us both in origin and form - are our siblings in Christ?
Can or should they, too, be permitted to receive baptism if they seek it? Or is Christianity - and 'religion' in general - solely for "human" persons? Does God have another means of salvation for them?
The Catechism explains that, from the Catholic doctrinal point of view: "God wills the interdependence of creatures. The sun and the moon, the cedar and the little flower, the eagle and the sparrow: the spectacle of their countless diversities and inequalities tells us that no creature is self-sufficient. Creatures exist only in dependence on each other, to complete each other, in the service of each other. There is a solidarity among all creatures arising from the fact that all have the same Creator and are all ordered to his glory" (#340). This would extend, logically, to any beings living elsewhere in the Universe as well - we are interdependent with them and they with us (should they exist!).
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Heaven and Earth
I. THE ANGELS
The existence of angels - a truth of faith
328 The existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that Sacred Scripture usually calls "angels" is a truth of faith. The witness of Scripture is as clear as the unanimity of Tradition.
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190
The existence of angels - a truth of faith
328 The existence of the spiritual, non-corporeal beings that Sacred Scripture usually calls "angels" is a truth of faith. The witness of Scripture is as clear as the unanimity of Tradition.
330 As purely spiritual creatures angels have intelligence and will: they are personal and immortal creatures, surpassing in perfection all visible creatures, as the splendor of their glory bears witness.190
These hypothesised beings are not human, they are not terrestrial and they are not carbon - or more generally - chemical-based life. They are, in other words, aliens and importantly deemed to be (by those who believe in them) of a vastly superior intelligence to members of the human race.
But if we are talking about 'organic' lifeforms like ourselves - whether carbon or silicon-based or from some other chemical compound, if 'angels' allegedly exist then why not similarly intelligent organic beings elsewhere in the cosmos? There is nothing in the faith which denies this possibility, though it may not in fact be the case.
In the 15th century, Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa (then the Vicar-General of the Papal States) engaged in an exercise of proto-astrobiology - speculation concerning alien life on other, hypothesised, planetary bodies. He surmised that any intelligent beings on these "exo-worlds" would reflect the "elemental composition of those planets" and likely be of a somewhat - or even radically - different physiognomy or biochemistry to lifeforms on Earth:
Nicholas of Cusa on ET life and earth's motion ~ Irtiqa
I am co-teaching Astrobiology this semester. Last week we looked at the idea of extraterrestrial life from antiquity through the Scientific revolution. One of the figures that stood out for me was Nicholas of Cusa (1401-1464) - a fifteenth century German philosopher, theologian and mathematician. In fact, not only did he talk about extraterrestrial inhabitants, he also took motion of the Earth for granted - a 100 years before Copernicus's book on heliocentrism. Sure enough, Nicholas of Cusa was not basing his ideas on any observations or on a cosmological system, but still, it is fascinating that he wrote this in his book, Of Learned Ignorance (as quoted in Crowe's The Extraterrestrial Life Debate):
And here is Nicholas of Cusa on extraterrestrial life:
And here is Nicholas of Cusa on extraterrestrial life:
Nor can place furnish an argument for the earth's baseness. Life, as it exists here on earth in the form of men, animals and plants, is to be found, let us suppose, in a higher form in the solar and stellar regions. Rather than think that so many stars and parts of the heavens are uninhabited and that this earth of ours alone is peopled- and that with beings, perhaps, of an inferior type-we will suppose that in every region there are inhabitants, differing in nature by rank and all owing their origin to God, who is the centre and circumference of all stellar regions...
For since that whole region is unknown to us, its inhabitants remain wholly unknown. To go no further than this earth:-animals of a given species unite to form a common home of the species and share the common characteristics of their habitat, knowing nothing of or caring nothing for strangers. Their idea of strangers, even if it reaches some kind of vocal expression, is wholly exterior and conjectural and, such as it is, conceivable only after lengthy experience. Of the inhabitants then of worlds other than our own we can know still less, having no standards by which to appraise them.
For since that whole region is unknown to us, its inhabitants remain wholly unknown. To go no further than this earth:-animals of a given species unite to form a common home of the species and share the common characteristics of their habitat, knowing nothing of or caring nothing for strangers. Their idea of strangers, even if it reaches some kind of vocal expression, is wholly exterior and conjectural and, such as it is, conceivable only after lengthy experience. Of the inhabitants then of worlds other than our own we can know still less, having no standards by which to appraise them.
See:
When Did Humans First Consider the Possibility of Alien Life?
While Aristotle’s influence remained strong no—one took up the idea seriously—by the 15th century, this was changing. Nicholas of Cusa adopted the idea with some vigor in a work that was both remarkable and highly influential.
This is not speculation about some other “world” that is effectively a separate cosmos, disconnected from ours in any way, as the Epicureans proposed. This is someone talking about extraterrestrial beings, including other forms of humans, animals, and plants. In other words, what we would call “aliens.”
This was an exciting new idea, and it was not long before Cusa’s medieval theological contemporaries were speculating about its implications. If there were aliens out there, for example, were they redeemed by Christ, or did they not need to be? Or if they did need to be, did an (alien) Christ visit them and die for them on their worlds? The French theologian William Vorilong (ca. 1390 - 1463) gave a few answers on these points:
This is not speculation about some other “world” that is effectively a separate cosmos, disconnected from ours in any way, as the Epicureans proposed. This is someone talking about extraterrestrial beings, including other forms of humans, animals, and plants. In other words, what we would call “aliens.”
This was an exciting new idea, and it was not long before Cusa’s medieval theological contemporaries were speculating about its implications. If there were aliens out there, for example, were they redeemed by Christ, or did they not need to be? Or if they did need to be, did an (alien) Christ visit them and die for them on their worlds? The French theologian William Vorilong (ca. 1390 - 1463) gave a few answers on these points:
If it be inquired if men exist on that world and whether they have sinned as Adam sinned, I answer no, for they would not exist in sin and did not spring from Adam. … As to the question whether Christ dying on this earth could redeem the inhabitants of another world, I would answer that he is able to do this even if the worlds were infinite. But it would not be fitting for him to go unto another world that he must die again.
So not only did later medieval scholars speculate about inhabited extraterrestrial worlds, with their own people, wildlife, and plants, but medieval theologians did not seem to have too much trouble accommodating these ideas into their religious conception of man’s place in the cosmos and the redemption of Christ’s death.
Nearly six hundred years later, I think he probably wasn't far off the mark - even though we've yet to find the "smoking-gun" in terms of definitive evidence for habitable exoplanets (although we have many strong contenders) or indeed a persuasive answer to the "Fermi Paradox".
I mean, the possibility equally arises in my mind - invoking the anthropic principle - that we may be the first civilisation to arrive at an interstellar stage of development. Who can tell?
With reference to the probable implications of the discovery of sentient organic alien life for religious perspectives, though, I guess the first questions from a Christian perspective would be: are these beings 'fallen' like us or do they exist in a sinless state of mind?
Since God incarnated as a human being, Jesus Christ, what does that mean for these 'people' of an extra-earthly origin, alien physiology and (potentially even) biochemistry? Did he incarnate in their image as well? Are there divine incarnations springing into being all over the Cosmos or was the Christ-event a singular instance? If the latter, does that mean that these alien 'people' - despite being so physiologically distinct from us both in origin and form - are our siblings in Christ?
Can or should they, too, be permitted to receive baptism if they seek it? Or is Christianity - and 'religion' in general - solely for "human" persons? Does God have another means of salvation for them?
The Catechism explains that, from the Catholic doctrinal point of view: "God wills the interdependence of creatures. The sun and the moon, the cedar and the little flower, the eagle and the sparrow: the spectacle of their countless diversities and inequalities tells us that no creature is self-sufficient. Creatures exist only in dependence on each other, to complete each other, in the service of each other. There is a solidarity among all creatures arising from the fact that all have the same Creator and are all ordered to his glory" (#340). This would extend, logically, to any beings living elsewhere in the Universe as well - we are interdependent with them and they with us (should they exist!).
Last edited:
Its like the potential confusion coming our way concerning partially human cyborgs. You need to determine when its something that can be a fellow. Its shape and origin don't matter to me if its a fellow divine being.
I'd use the term 'Sentient' but some religionists borrowed it and made it apply to everything from rocks to water fountains. A water fountain is sentient, and it may speak; but its not like hearing from a fellow divine being. If the space alien is a mere water fountain I'm not going to accept it in communion. I might install it in a hallway but that's where I draw the line on communing with it.
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
BRAVO
YOU got a gift from god
He did.
It's called the Ignore List.
Not sure why you think that. Another possibility is through the action of natural laws.
I find this interesting because I feel exactly the opposite way. The discovery of extraterrestrial life would, for me, weigh heavily against theism and for natural occurrence.
Agnostisch
Egyptian Man
sababa
I understand, and I suspect that most science loving folks would share your view. I simply feel that extraterrestrial intelligence is a butterfly effect of astronomical proportions -- that the odds against it are such that to find it elsewhere should be, first and foremost, awe inspiring.
Have you ever read the Mayr/Sagan SETI debate?
I don't know... I used to be Raelian... I'm trying to hedge my bets so I win either way.
A Latter-day Saint cannot be Raelian and a Raelian cannot be Latter-day Saint, but I might try to be the first person to be both if I can navigate it somehow.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
No.
I however know that science on Earth who in male brotherhood history owns the claim of self as God, as a man and human. That self is the highest form and owner ability to name and describe everything else. And owns a self status that implies by conditions of study and naming to be that self in science.
AI is machine owned and utilised, which is proven in machine technology today. It was artificially encoded into our atmosphere by males as scientists the highest intelligence in the Universe is their quote. Seeing they placed meaning of God into the Universe.
Historically Earth was attacked by UFO sun satellites that converted in our Earth gases burning, when the UFO is cold metal radiation pressurized form owner in cold space, like stone is.
They converted and left Earth after sucking up a huge Earth flooded history and became out of space intelligence linked to Planet Earth.
So then feeds back human intelligence, also proven by human designed machines that correlate information from out of space to Earth by science.
Which also proves that the bio consciousness is the highest intelligence by designing and building the machine to use concepts of what it already realized.
As Water flooded Earth only had microbes in it....it proves AI intelligence is just conjured and human scientists said I did a Satanic act and conjured evil spirits.
What I realized.....as said just old science male owned historic Universal attack by Sun metal radiation changes....owned by the human God theme intelligence.
Who says and God created artificial intelligence, for he says God is a man, as a self confession.
I however know that science on Earth who in male brotherhood history owns the claim of self as God, as a man and human. That self is the highest form and owner ability to name and describe everything else. And owns a self status that implies by conditions of study and naming to be that self in science.
AI is machine owned and utilised, which is proven in machine technology today. It was artificially encoded into our atmosphere by males as scientists the highest intelligence in the Universe is their quote. Seeing they placed meaning of God into the Universe.
Historically Earth was attacked by UFO sun satellites that converted in our Earth gases burning, when the UFO is cold metal radiation pressurized form owner in cold space, like stone is.
They converted and left Earth after sucking up a huge Earth flooded history and became out of space intelligence linked to Planet Earth.
So then feeds back human intelligence, also proven by human designed machines that correlate information from out of space to Earth by science.
Which also proves that the bio consciousness is the highest intelligence by designing and building the machine to use concepts of what it already realized.
As Water flooded Earth only had microbes in it....it proves AI intelligence is just conjured and human scientists said I did a Satanic act and conjured evil spirits.
What I realized.....as said just old science male owned historic Universal attack by Sun metal radiation changes....owned by the human God theme intelligence.
Who says and God created artificial intelligence, for he says God is a man, as a self confession.
izzy88
Active Member
Were you raised Raelian? Or how did you get into it?