Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Then there are a hell of a lot of non-Muslims masquerading as Muslims.
You Muslims, just like Christians are idol worshipers. If not, you would not spend so much time on your knees.
Regards
DL
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Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.
- Thread starter Greatest I am
- Start date
Then there are a hell of a lot of non-Muslims masquerading as Muslims.
You Muslims, just like Christians are idol worshipers. If not, you would not spend so much time on your knees.
Regards
DL
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Virtually all scientists who lived in an age when rejecting Christianity could get your career seriously harmed or even make you dead. Try to find that many scientists today who equally accept Christianity.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
At least you claim to and interestingly enough, so do the followers of all other monotheistic religions. Claims mean nothing, it matters what you can prove.
Umm, no, I don't think so.
1robin
Christian/Baptist
That is a Cherry picked modern phenomena that I do not even think is correct. However it is irrelevant even if true. Also it is no handful I mentioned either. Look at any list of histories greatest 100 scientists. It will be dominated by Christians and Jews. Plus some of the 'handful" of names I gave are modern scientists. My comments concern science as a whole and did not cherry pick any arbitrary time frame. Yet even modern science (abstract science) is based on primarily Christian scientists. Christians produced the scientific revolution and the very fields of science themselves.
Is this a handful and how many atheists are listed?
The list below is from the book The Scientific 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Scientists, Past and Present, Citadel Press (2000), written by John Galbraith Simmons.
1 Isaac Newton the Newtonian Revolution Anglican (rejected Trinitarianism, i.e., Athanasianism; believed in the Arianism of the Primitive Church)
2 Albert Einstein Twentieth-Century Science Jewish
3 Neils Bohr the Atom Jewish Lutheran
4 Charles Darwin Evolution Anglican (nominal); Unitarian
5 Louis Pasteur the Germ Theory of Disease Catholic
6 Sigmund Freud Psychology of the Unconscious Jewish; Atheist; Freudian psychoanalysis (Freudianism)
7 Galileo Galilei the New Science Catholic
8 Antoine Laurent Lavoisier the Revolution in Chemistry Catholic
9 Johannes Kepler Motion of the Planets Lutheran
10 Nicolaus Copernicus the Heliocentric Universe Catholic (priest)
11 Michael Faraday the Classical Field Theory Sandemanian
12 James Clerk Maxwell the Electromagnetic Field Presbyterian; Anglican; Baptist
13 Claude Bernard the Founding of Modern Physiology
14 Franz Boas Modern Anthropology Jewish
15 Werner Heisenberg Quantum Theory Lutheran
16 Linus Pauling Twentieth-Century Chemistry Lutheran
17 Rudolf Virchow the Cell Doctrine
18 Erwin Schrodinger Wave Mechanics Catholic
19 Ernest Rutherford the Structure of the Atom
20 Paul Dirac Quantum Electrodynamics
21 Andreas Vesalius the New Anatomy Catholic
22 Tycho Brahe the New Astronomy Lutheran
23 Comte de Buffon l'Histoire Naturelle
24 Ludwig Boltzmann Thermodynamics
25 Max Planck the Quanta Protestant
26 Marie Curie Radioactivity Catholic (lapsed)
27 William Herschel the Discovery of the Heavens Jewish
28 Charles Lyell Modern Geology
29 Pierre Simon de Laplace Newtonian Mechanics atheist
30 Edwin Hubble the Modern Telescope
31 Joseph J. Thomson the Discovery of the Electron
32 Max Born Quantum Mechanics Jewish Lutheran
33 Francis Crick Molecular Biology atheist
34 Enrico Fermi Atomic Physics Catholic
35 Leonard Euler Eighteenth-Century Mathematics Calvinist
36 Justus Liebig Nineteenth-Century Chemistry
37 Arthur Eddington Modern Astronomy Quaker
38 William Harvey Circulation of the Blood Anglican (nominal)
39 Marcello Malpighi Microscopic Anatomy Catholic
40 Christiaan Huygens the Wave Theory of Light Calvinist
41 Carl Gauss (Karl Friedrich Gauss) Mathematical Genius Lutheran
42 Albrecht von Haller Eighteenth-Century Medicine
43 August Kekule Chemical Structure
44 Robert Koch Bacteriology
45 Murray Gell-Mann the Eightfold Way Jewish
46 Emil Fischer Organic Chemistry
47 Dmitri Mendeleev the Periodic Table of Elements
48 Sheldon Glashow the Discovery of Charm Jewish
49 James Watson the Structure of DNA atheist
50 John Bardeen Superconductivity
51 John von Neumann the Modern Computer Jewish Catholic
52 Richard Feynman Quantum Electrodynamics Jewish
53 Alfred Wegener Continental Drift
54 Stephen Hawking Quantum Cosmology atheist
55 Anton van Leeuwenhoek the Simple Microscope Dutch Reformed
56 Max von Laue X-ray Crystallography
57 Gustav Kirchhoff Spectroscopy
58 Hans Bethe the Energy of the Sun Jewish
59 Euclid the Foundations of Mathematics Platonism / Greek philosophy
60 Gregor Mendel the Laws of Inheritance Catholic (Augustinian monk)
61 Heike Kamerlingh Onnes Superconductivity
62 Thomas Hunt Morgan the Chromosomal Theory of Heredity
63 Hermann von Helmholtz the Rise of German Science
64 Paul Ehrlich Chemotherapy Jewish
65 Ernst Mayr Evolutionary Theory atheist
66 Charles Sherrington Neurophysiology
67 Theodosius Dobzhansky the Modern Synthesis Russian Orthodox
68 Max Delbruck the Bacteriophage
69 Jean Baptiste Lamarck the Foundations of Biology
70 William Bayliss Modern Physiology
71 Noam Chomsky Twentieth-Century Linguistics Jewish atheist
72 Frederick Sanger the Genetic Code
73 Lucretius Scientific Thinking Epicurean; atheist
74 John Dalton the Theory of the Atom Quaker
75 Louis Victor de Broglie Wave/Particle Duality
76 Carl Linnaeus the Binomial Nomenclature Christianity
77 Jean Piaget Child Development
78 George Gaylord Simpson the Tempo of Evolution
79 Claude Levi-Strauss Structural Anthropology Jewish
80 Lynn Margulis Symbiosis Theory Jewish
81 Karl Landsteiner the Blood Groups Jewish
82 Konrad Lorenz Ethology
83 Edward O. Wilson Sociobiology
84 Frederick Gowland Hopkins Vitamins
85 Gertrude Belle Elion Pharmacology
86 Hans Selye the Stress Concept
87 J. Robert Oppenheimer the Atomic Era Jewish
88 Edward Teller the Bomb Jewish
89 Willard Libby Radioactive Dating
90 Ernst Haeckel the Biogenetic Principle
91 Jonas Salk Vaccination Jewish
92 Emil Kraepelin Twentieth-Century Psychiatry
93 Trofim Lysenko Soviet Genetics Russian Orthodox; Communist
94 Francis Galton Eugenics
95 Alfred Binet the I.Q. Test
96 Alfred Kinsey Human Sexuality atheist
97 Alexander Fleming Penicillin Catholic
98 B. F. Skinner Behaviorism atheist
99 Wilhelm Wundt the Founding of Psychology atheist
100 Archimedes the Beginning of Science Greek philosophy
100 Scientists Who Shaped World History
A few are questionable. Like what day you would ask Einstein on. However you can easily see the dominance of faith in these great thinkers.
Greatest I am
Well-Known Member
Sabour
Well-Known Member
How can I prove that to you? Isn't it something that you should check? like visiting a mosque for example?
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say there is no God ?
Certainly sounds like it. But I don't know. If I were an atheist, then I guess I might see worshiping God as idol worship, too. But since I am a theist, and so are all people who worship God (no kidding, right?) then we are not going to see it as idol worship.
The trick is trying to see things from another person's point of view, which, I loath to say, some people can't or won't do.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
From the way the discussion went, that was not clear to me. The suggestion that it was an idol worshiping because of thinking we worship Quraan or Muhammad peace be upon him. I don't think he considers worshiping the true God an idol worship in the first place. I think he just wants to confirm the ideas that he had.
Well actually I think the trick is people trying to find the truth. Many people are busy proving they have the truth instead of having it.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
And what makes you think I haven't?
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
I'm saying nobody has presented any objective evidence for a God and without that, a rational person should never believe.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you haven't, I am saying the question you posed can be answered either by quoting verses from the Quraan to show you that this is not the case or the other way is by one visiting a mosque and seeing for himself.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
That assumes that the Qur'an is a valid book that actually contains valid answers. That has not been demonstrated.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I don't believe anyone can present to anyone an objective evidence because that subject is one of the subjects that must be self initiated. I believe that if one were to find God, he would find God on God's term. That is being sincere about the approach and seeking to find the true answers and than third comes the part were one starts searching. The first two points are more essential than the last.
I believe in what Jesus peace be upon him said, seek the truth with your heart and the truth shall free you.
If there is a God, than everything in this world will be pointing you towards the fact that there is God. However, what one might enough proof varies between one person and the other. For that reason, don't expect people to give you convincing answers because everyone's experience meaning that how they see things varies. Listen to stories where people changed their beliefs from atheists to believers. You will find reasons as many as the number of people you listen to, and they all found their answers convincing, but would any of the answers be convincing to you? I think not!
This is why I believe that finding the proof should be a self initiated search. As the search progresses, if will be beneficial to ask people about certain things.
I am rational and I believe. I don't tell you that you have to believe in God and yet you are insinuating that we theists shouldn't, otherwise were irrational. That's kind of a double standard.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
And when you don't find God, what then? As you said, you can't show me God and even if you said you could, I have no reason to trust you (no offense but there's no reason to trust anyone who makes claims like that). So what do you do when God doesn't pop up? Does God not want me to find him, or does God not exist at all? The more I've looked, the less likely it seems that there are any gods at all.
Maybe you're just wrong.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Or maybe you were not really trying to find the answer with your heart and with all your strength.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Well, apparently not, at least when it comes to the existence of gods. Declaring yourself rational and actually being rational can be two entirely different things. Being rational requires following specific skeptical steps and not accepting anything without objective evidence. You have no objective evidence for God, hence when you believe, you are not, by definition, being rational.