Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[Sabour]

Faith in God. The Creator.

Faith in who or what?

Regards
DL

Islam is an example.

You are never supposed to believe in it blindly and people are always asked to reflect on things in the Quraan.

Furthermore, the Prophet peace be upon him said that seeking knowledge is a way leading to Paradise. He said: "Whoever follows a path in the pursuit of knowledge, Allaah will make a path to Paradise easy for him." (Al-Bukhaari)

For example the Quran repeatedly asks us to observe the earth and the heavens. This instills in man a desire to learn natural science as well. All the books of Hadeeth have a chapter on knowledge. In Saheeh Al-Bukhaari there is a chapter entitled "The virtue of one who acquires learning and imparts that to others."

The prophet peace be upon him also said: "When a man dies, all his deeds come to an end except for three — an ongoing charity, beneficial knowledge or a righteous child who will pray for him." (Muslim)

 

[George-ananda]

I don't call my beliefs 'faith'. They are just the most reasonable understanding I have found based on evidence and argumentation. My understanding does evolve as I learn.

 

[Sleeppy]

Stats show that the better the education, the less a mind is likely to turn to fantasy, miracles and magic to form their theology or philosophy.

Regards
DL

Of course.. But fantasies are not the problem.

 

[sojourner]

So faith is an assurance then. Ok.

So you idol worship an assurance. Right?
Or what assurance are you talking about.

You seem to be saying that your belief puts you in a myth.

Apologies if I got this all wrong but your answer makes almost no sense to me.

Regards
DL

What's with this fixation on "idol worship?" "Idol worship " has nothing to do with what anyone's talking about. It's a red herring.

No, I seem to by saying that I understand myself, the world, and my place in it in terms that are partly mythic.

 

[sojourner]

I said ---
Faith is a way to quit using, "God given" power of Reason and Logic, and cause the faithful to embrace doctrines that moral people reject.

You replied ---
Moral people being...?

I say ---

Those who agree that God is evil and a sinner based on his own word in Job 2;3.

Satan moved me to destroy without cause.

Regards
DL

This assessment has no basis in proper textual understanding, and represents only a twisting of meaning in order to achieve an end that is largely... a troll.

 

[McBell]

Of course.. But fantasies are not the problem.

They are when people want to make laws based upon them.

 

[sojourner]

I see it as belief in an imaginary construct regardless of it's shape or personification.

That is why logic and reason get set aside when faith rears it's evil head.

Regards
DL

Your definition is faulty, because it doesn't define what you want it to define. Faith isn't an "imaginary construct."

 

[McBell]

Faith isn't an "imaginary construct."

It isn't?
Would you be so kind as to present an example of faith which has no "imaginary construct"?

 

[sojourner]

It isn't?
Would you be so kind as to present an example of faith which has no "imaginary construct"?

Sure. Faith is a state of mind. As I said, faith is the assurance of things hoped for.

 

[Sleeppy]

They are when people want to make laws based upon them.

Not always.

 

[ChristineES]

And yet again you do not answer the direct question.

Why does god get a free pass?

Sigh. Because I believe He's God. I thought I'd insinuated that. I'd said that anyone worshiping a god will believe that God is the true God and would not be an idol.

 

[ChristineES]

Who is the God you idol worship?

How do you know which scriptures are worthy of literal reading and which are not?

What criteria do you use and have you dismissed miracles as not worthy of literal reading?

Regards
DL

I don't have to answer the first question (I don't see my God as an idol, and either would anyone else who worships God or several gods. The second, if you read my scriptures, you can very easily tell which are supposed to be symbolic and which are supposed to be literal. And lastly, I never said that miracles were symbolic; I didn't even insinuate it.

 

[ChristineES]

If someone sees my faith as "imaginary", "fantasy", etc., it's really no skin off my back. If they see my worship of God as an idol, then that's also no skin off my back. I just happen to not agree.

 

[allfoak]

I see it as belief in an imaginary construct regardless of it's shape or personification.

That is why logic and reason get set aside when faith rears it's evil head.

Regards
DL

Logic/reason should never get set aside for any reason of course.
But neither should faith/intuition.
That is like saying that the human race should be all male or all female.
You cant have one without the other.
If these two are not understood and in balance we do not have a solid foundation to build on.

Fundamentalist Christians and Atheists seem to be the most out of balance with these two.

 

[ChristineES]

Logic/reason should never get set aside for any reason of course.
But neither should faith/intuition.
That is like saying that the human race should be all male or all female.
You cant have one without the other.
If these two are not understood and in balance we do not have a solid foundation to build on.

Fundamentalist Christians and Atheists seem to be the most out of balance with these two.

The way I see it is that most people have reason. I have seen very few people without reason, including within strong atheists and the most fundamnetal religious person. Saying that people don't have reason is, to me, the same as saying someone is mentally ill. Reason seems to be a natural human quality that most people do, indeed, have.

 

[George-ananda]

For Christianity and Islam at least for mainstream people faith is not 'blind faith' or they would irrationally pick anything. They do use reason. They can look at the qualities of great people of their faith and also the fact that the central factors of brotherly love and concern for others is intuitively correct. Nowadays almost all people are educated and opinionated so they may challenge dogma and certain perhaps outdated beliefs but they will also say they believe in God and Jesus (or Mohammed in other parts of the world). The main alternative presented to these people, atheism, is not attractive and doesn't accord with their personal intuitive feelings and personal experiences they and people they know have had.

 

[sojourner]

I'm really having a difficult time with the iconoclasm of the OP. Unless, of course, it's a troll simply spamming up the forum. Idol worship enjoyed a long and important role in at least Roman culture. Every home and business had a niche into which the "house god" was set. With regard to idolatry in Xy, the injunction is clearly against graven images (the kind of idolatry practiced in several cultures contemporary of the time). It was believed that the statue, itself, contained supernatural power. The injunction was placed as a distinction between God and idols. Therefore, to twist that injunction to include the worship of any perceived deity is to create a straw man. For those who believe in God, to set up a statue which is a god, in and of itself, is prohibited. Those of other religions need pay no attention to that injunction. Belief in God, and, by extension, in Jesus, does not constitute "idolatry" in the biblical sense.

In fact, faith does not inherently close the mind, nor is it "pure idol worship."

 

[allfoak]

The way I see it is that most people have reason. I have seen very few people without reason, including within strong atheists and the most fundamnetal religious person. Saying that people don't have reason is, to me, the same as saying someone is mentally ill. Reason seems to be a natural human quality that most people do, indeed, have.

I don't think i said that?

 

[ChristineES]

I don't think i said that?

Sorry. Didn't mean to insinuate you said something you did not say. Just wanted to add my own pov. Just used your post as reference.

 

[allfoak]

Sorry. Didn't mean to insinuate you said something you did not say. Just wanted to add my own pov. Just used your post as reference.

That's fine.
Of course you are correct that everyone has the ability to reason.
You must admit that there are some better at it than others.

It is also true that everyone has an intuitive quality as well.
If you are observant you will see that there are also some better than others at using this quality.