Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[Greatest I am]

Logic/reason should never get set aside for any reason of course.
But neither should faith/intuition.
That is like saying that the human race should be all male or all female.
You cant have one without the other.
If these two are not understood and in balance we do not have a solid foundation to build on.

Fundamentalist Christians and Atheists seem to be the most out of balance with these two.

Yet most so called believers as well as the fundamentalists read the bible literally to some extent.

You can run to the middle or left but you are fooling yourself if you believe in anything literally in the bible.

You cannot say, I only believe in woo just a little bit.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

For Christianity and Islam at least for mainstream people faith is not 'blind faith' or they would irrationally pick anything. They do use reason. They can look at the qualities of great people of their faith and also the fact that the central factors of brotherly love and concern for others is intuitively correct. Nowadays almost all people are educated and opinionated so they may challenge dogma and certain perhaps outdated beliefs but they will also say they believe in God and Jesus (or Mohammed in other parts of the world). The main alternative presented to these people, atheism, is not attractive and doesn't accord with their personal intuitive feelings and personal experiences they and people they know have had.

Good grief. You don't really believe that the vast majority of the world are that retarded do you?

It is all tribalism, tradition and custom that makes the vast majority to just inherit without thought or choice the family Gods.

To think that most who say the are believers really believe is really uneducated.

All religions claim to be peaceful. If most believed as you think, there would not be any wars. Right?

Yet there are wars and strife everywhere.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I'm really having a difficult time with the iconoclasm of the OP. Unless, of course, it's a troll simply spamming up the forum. Idol worship enjoyed a long and important role in at least Roman culture. Every home and business had a niche into which the "house god" was set. With regard to idolatry in Xy, the injunction is clearly against graven images (the kind of idolatry practiced in several cultures contemporary of the time). It was believed that the statue, itself, contained supernatural power. The injunction was placed as a distinction between God and idols. Therefore, to twist that injunction to include the worship of any perceived deity is to create a straw man. For those who believe in God, to set up a statue which is a god, in and of itself, is prohibited. "

What is the cross if not just that?

Jesus said to seek God.

Christians do not seek and idol worship their Godinabook and use Jesus as their scapegoat and idol.

Jesus said seek God. He never said seek me.

If you are not seeking God, and call yourself a believer, then you are an idol worshiper of the God you found.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I know, That's who I was referring too.
I wouldn't call myself a biblical literalist, I do believe in Genesis, but I also accept Evolution.

How does a talking serpent fit into evolution. What did it evolve from?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I've seen it. -- Literal reading of myths is not the problem. You should be able to pinpoint the actual issues, and I encourage you to do so. We need to be precise, if we're to find solutions.

You may hold a different vie but as a Gnostic Christian, I see literalism as the main problem. That is what inhibits the seeking after God which is a worthy endeavor.

God defined as the best set of rules and laws we can envisage.

Basic Beliefs of a True Gnostic

1. The only proper religion for mankind is humanity itself, for it is from this humanity that God first evolved. God, who is our future, came from humans, who are Their past.
2. God is a glorified and exalted human being.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Faith is a necessary trust which is needed when one is ignorant of a subject.
When you know nothing about a subject, in this case God, then you have to rely on a teacher or somebody to teach you. You have to have that first little leap of faith because you are completely ignorant and have no means to determine whom to trust.

In the case of Jesus, Jesus is claiming to have knowledge of something you have no knowledge of. To trust Jesus or not trust Jesus, you've no means to determine. To chose to trust what he taught is a matter of faith because of ignorance.

However as you listen and follow and learn and test for yourself, it becomes a matter of relying on what you yourself experience. First you have to listen and learn. Later you can test and verify. The faith comes into play because of ignorance and yes because of your ignorance it is a choice made blind. However the point is not that you remain ignorant forever. Once you have some actual experience then it is a matter of trusting your own experience and not faith in the claims of others.

Faith is the initial step necessary to start down the road to enlightenment.

Faith in what?

Regards
DL

 

[Cephus]

Faith is a necessary trust which is needed when one is ignorant of a subject.
When you know nothing about a subject, in this case God, then you have to rely on a teacher or somebody to teach you. You have to have that first little leap of faith because you are completely ignorant and have no means to determine whom to trust.

In the case of Jesus, Jesus is claiming to have knowledge of something you have no knowledge of. To trust Jesus or not trust Jesus, you've no means to determine. To chose to trust what he taught is a matter of faith because of ignorance.

However as you listen and follow and learn and test for yourself, it becomes a matter of relying on what you yourself experience. First you have to listen and learn. Later you can test and verify. The faith comes into play because of ignorance and yes because of your ignorance it is a choice made blind. However the point is not that you remain ignorant forever. Once you have some actual experience then it is a matter of trusting your own experience and not faith in the claims of others.

Faith is the initial step necessary to start down the road to enlightenment.

No, in fact just about all of that is wrong. Faith is not a necessary trust when you are ignorant of a subject, you need to get educated, not have blind faith. In fact, the first thing you need to do when seeking out a teacher on any subject is to find out what they actually know and how they know it. You don't have to have faith, you have to have well-placed trust, based on doing one's due diligence. Just picking some guy off the street who claims to have expertise is a very bad idea if you don't actually find out if they are actually an expert, yet in the case of God, since nobody has any evidence that God is actually real, there's no way to verify that this supposed teacher has a clue what they are talking about.

Faith is not the initial step, that would be research. Faith, especially blind faith, isn't even on the same planet as the road to enlightenment.

 

[Riverwolf]

Looking for a cheap point.

Trying to help, actually.

However, it would appear my wording (perhaps specifically the "ah") pushed a button. Certainly help is useless if the passion fires burn. My apologies.

In religion faith applies to God.

Assuming, of course, God has anything to do with the religion in question.

That is better, though. It's a qualifier that was not part of the OP's title, nor was it in the first post. Doubtless this absence caused confusion in myself and others.

In that first post, you make this statement: "Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths."

I wouldn't call literalism evil, but it's certainly closed-minded. Beyond that, I agree with this statement.

However, it does tell me that you're equating religious faith with literalism, and that's not something I agree with. I have religious faith, myself, but don't take Lore literally at all.

 

[sojourner]

You are looking from your mythic world and I am not surprised that you cannot see well from there.

Regards
DL

Way to post a non-rebuttal. This type of response is widely-known as the "Yeah? So's your old man!" rebuttal. The reason? You know I'm right and can't think of anything else that will adequately prove your argument, so you resort to cheap misdirection.

 

[sojourner]

you are fooling yourself if you believe in anything literally in the bible.

That depends on what you mean by "believe in anything literally in the bible."

 

[sojourner]

What is the cross if not just that?

The cross has no power in and of itself.

Jesus said to seek God.

And so we do.

Christians do not seek and idol worship their Godinabook and use Jesus as their scapegoat and idol.

Many do -- many do not. Your generalization is untenable.

Jesus said seek God. He never said seek me.

But he did say, "Follow me." He also said, "Believe in me."

If you are not seeking God, and call yourself a believer, then you are an idol worshiper of the God you found.

I think most Christians do seek God, as far as they're able.

Sounds like Somebody's got a chip on his shoulder...

 

[sojourner]

How does a talking serpent fit into evolution. What did it evolve from?

Regards
DL

This is where the misdirection is rooted. It is possible to embrace the mythic stories of Genesis and embrace scientific fact at the same time.

 

[McBell]

I've given it to you twice now. third time's a charm, I hope, unless you're gonna be too stubborn to read it: Faith is a state of mind. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between a definition and an example.

 

[McBell]

Too bad, it can be fun. The only example I have is my own faith: I don't see it as an imaginary contruct; it's real to me. I felt if I say things like that, it would seem as a "non-answer", and it probably would be to most people.

You do not see it as or believe there is an imaginary construct.
I understand that.
How do you think those who disagree with the conclusions of your faith see it?

 

[ChristineES]

You do not see it as or believe there is an imaginary construct.
I understand that.
How do you think those who disagree with the conclusions of your faith see it?

They are going to see it the way you do. Just because people with no faith see it as imaginary doesn't mean it has to be for me. I can understand it but not agree with it.

 

[McBell]

They are going to see it the way you do. Just because people with no faith see it as imaginary doesn't mean it has to be for me. I can understand it but not agree with it.

Fair enough

 

[Greatest I am]

Trying to help, actually.

However, it would appear my wording (perhaps specifically the "ah") pushed a button. Certainly help is useless if the passion fires burn. My apologies.



Assuming, of course, God has anything to do with the religion in question.

That is better, though. It's a qualifier that was not part of the OP's title, nor was it in the first post. Doubtless this absence caused confusion in myself and others.

In that first post, you make this statement: "Literalism is an evil practice that hides the true messages of myths."

I wouldn't call literalism evil, but it's certainly closed-minded. Beyond that, I agree with this statement.

However, it does tell me that you're equating religious faith with literalism, and that's not something I agree with. I have religious faith, myself, but don't take Lore literally at all.

Thanks for this.

You have faith in who or what and based on what?
What triggered your faith in what you name.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

The cross has no power in and of itself.

And so we do.

Many do -- many do not. Your generalization is untenable.

But he did say, "Follow me." He also said, "Believe in me."

I think most Christians do seek God, as far as they're able.

Sounds like Somebody's got a chip on his shoulder...

Absolutely.

For the evils of religion to grow, read any scripture literally.

Any and all harmless beliefs are allowed by Gnostic Christians.

We know that any myth can be internalized for good results and as esoteric ecumenists, we enjoy knowledge of all the myths that man has created about Gods.

When there is a victim is when that view changes. Then you see why Christianity annihilated Gnostic Christianity. We do not let the evils of forced literalism go unopposed. To a tyrant like Constantine, we were poison. One of his first commands to his new Church was to kill off the free thinkers and of course, his new tool, his Church, did as bid. It was quite a ride for free thought for the next 1,000 years.

How can a Gnostic Christian, --- and any other free thinking moral person, --- not judge other's morals when seeing someone hurt other because of the same Church's teachings today?

Can you ignore such things if you have decent morals?

Impossible. Especially with Islam pulling the same murderous, freedom stifling ****.

We must discriminate and judge constantly. Every law is a compulsion on all of us to judge.

It is my view that all right wing literalists and fundamentals hurt all of us who are moral religionists, --- as well as those who do not believe. Literalists hurt their parent religions --- and everyone else, be he a believer or not. Literalists and the right wing of religions make us all into laughing stocks. Their God of talking animals, genocidal floods and retribution has got to go. So must beliefs in fantasy, miracles and magic. These are all evil.

They also do much harm to their own fellow adherents.

African witches and Jesus

Jesus Camp 1of 3

Death to Gays.

For evil to grow my friend, all good people need do is nothing. Fight literalism when you can. It is your duty to our fellow man.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

This is where the misdirection is rooted. It is possible to embrace the mythic stories of Genesis and embrace scientific fact at the same time.

I did not direct to anything. I asked a question.

Strange that Christianity that claims to know everything never want to answer questions.

Note that my simple question, the poster ran from.

Typical Christian way that.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Perhaps you should learn the difference between a definition and an example.

Our friend is not good at what he does. Too busy looking for cheap points instead of just discussing.

Regards
DL