Faith closes the mind. It is pure idol worship.

[sojourner]

I did not direct to anything. I asked a question.

Strange that Christianity that claims to know everything never want to answer questions.

Note that my simple question, the poster ran from.

Typical Christian way that.

Regards
DL

You patently conflated evolution with myth, misdirecting us from issues of faith to issues of narrow-mindedness.

 

[sojourner]

Our friend is not good at what he does. Too busy looking for cheap points instead of just discussing.

Regards
DL

The points are cheap because that's all that merits cheap accusations. You want decent points? Come up with a real argument, instead of throwing cheap barbs.

 

[sojourner]

Perhaps you should learn the difference between a definition and an example.

I have faith that the sun will appear in the east tomorrow morning, and I order my activities and throughout processes on that basis.

 

[Cephus]

I have faith that the sun will appear in the east tomorrow morning, and I order my activities and throughout processes on that basis.

I have no faith in such things, I base my assumption that it will happen on the demonstrable fact that it has happened every single day on record and on an understanding of physics. It is literally impossible for the sun not to appear in the east without killing everyone on the planet in the process. No faith involved.

 

[sojourner]

I have no faith in such things, I base my assumption that it will happen on the demonstrable fact that it has happened every single day on record and on an understanding of physics. It is literally impossible for the sun not to appear in the east without killing everyone on the planet in the process. No faith involved.

Sure, there are things that point to "all things being equal," but in the purest sense, we don't know for sure.

Ultimately, though, I think that faith involves meaning-making. Faith involves us living our lives in a way that's grounded in what our lives and experiences mean for us. Often, that meaning is expressed in mythic terms, because the mythic lends itself to a greater degree of creative expression, through which meaning is made to begin with. I don't think anyone can remain 100% objective and impassive about one's life experience -- and if one does, that level of detachment is unhealthy. at some point, we have to engage subjectively with ourselves and our world and derive some meaning. The meaning we make is faith, because that meaning is what we hope for.

 

[ChristineES]

I did not direct to anything. I asked a question.

Strange that Christianity that claims to know everything never want to answer questions.

Note that my simple question, the poster ran from.

Typical Christian way that.

Regards
DL

We do answer it. Sometimes the answer isn't what the asker wants it to be. The fact is as I said: When worshiping God, no one is going to believe that they God he or she worships is a false god or an idol, that includes me. I also mentioned that an idol, to me, is an object- and that includes self worship and "idea" worship (wealth and prosperity are examples) and even another person (including celebrities). Sometimes these objects represents God or gods, as the definition implies:

an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered.

 

[Greatest I am]

We do answer it. Sometimes the answer isn't what the asker wants it to be. The fact is as I said: When worshiping God, no one is going to believe that they God he or she worships is a false god or an idol, that includes me. I also mentioned that an idol, to me, is an object- and that includes self worship and "idea" worship (wealth and prosperity are examples) and even another person (including celebrities). Sometimes these objects represents God or gods, as the definition implies:

an image or representation of a god used as an object of worship. a person or thing that is greatly admired, loved, or revered.

Then show why the God you worship is not a false God.

You can do that with his moral position. God would always have the best morals.

Tell us, are the best morals centered on others or on the self?

Regards
DL

 

[McBell]

God would always have the best morals.

Says who?

 

[Nakosis]

Faith in what?

Regards
DL

When you are born, faith in your parents. When one becomes a teenager that faith is lost rather quickly.

When you go to school, faith in your teachers.
If someone teaches you about God, faith in them.

At least enough faith to listen and learn from them so you can test them at their word.

 

[Sleeppy]

I have no faith in such things, I base my assumption that it will happen on the demonstrable fact that it has happened every single day on record and on an understanding of physics. It is literally impossible for the sun not to appear in the east without killing everyone on the planet in the process. No faith involved.

I don't know what definition we're using.. But, that qualifies as faith.

 

[Greatest I am]

Says who?

Whose name for better morals can we place above God's?

I recognize that we are governed by better morals than what God displays but to a believer, we are less moral than his genocidal son murderer.

LOL. A Christian will say that we just don't understand God and are wrong in thinking of the immoral prick as a prick.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

When you are born, faith in your parents. When one becomes a teenager that faith is lost rather quickly.

When you go to school, faith in your teachers.
If someone teaches you about God, faith in them.

At least enough faith to listen and learn from them so you can test them at their word.

Faith in real people is not the same as faith in a sky daddy who you must love or burn forever in hell for not loving.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I don't know what definition we're using.. But, that qualifies as faith.

Not from a biblical stand point.

Roman 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Knowing the sun will rise is not faith as it is not in the Word of God and as you will know, the sun is visible and not unseen.

Regards
DL

 

[McBell]

Whose name for better morals can we place above God's?

You answer this yourself below...
So I am confused as to what your point was going to be with the above quoted question.

I recognize that we are governed by better morals than what God displays but to a believer, we are less moral than his genocidal son murderer.

Better?
Says who?
By whose standards?
What gives them the authority over such subjective better/worse decisions?

A Christian will say that we just don't understand God and are wrong in thinking of the immoral prick as a prick.

Are you claiming they are wrong?
If so, prove it.
If not, so what?

 

[Nakosis]

Faith in real people is not the same as faith in a sky daddy who you must love or burn forever in hell for not loving.

Regards
DL

Right, in the case of Christianity they are asking that you have enough faith to learn of what Jesus taught, at least to where you can learn enough to test what he taught.

If God showed up on your door step to teach you then you would need faith in God. Until then you have to rely on your fellow man.

I'm pretty sure God doesn't make personal appearances. Unfortunately that means a lot of trial and error when it comes to those who would teach you of God. Mostly a lot of error.

 

[Cephus]

Sure, there are things that point to "all things being equal," but in the purest sense, we don't know for sure.

We don't know anything for sure, we never will. All knowledge is provisional, we can only go by what is best supported at the moment and be willing to revise our positions when new information is found. Right now, what is best supported is not the existence of any god. There is no objective evidence to support the existence of any god. Therefore, the best position isn't to believe in any god. Just like Bigfoot, we might find evidence someday to support Bigfoot, the time to believe in Bigfoot is when we actually have the evidence and not before.

Ultimately, though, I think that faith involves meaning-making. Faith involves us living our lives in a way that's grounded in what our lives and experiences mean for us. Often, that meaning is expressed in mythic terms, because the mythic lends itself to a greater degree of creative expression, through which meaning is made to begin with. I don't think anyone can remain 100% objective and impassive about one's life experience -- and if one does, that level of detachment is unhealthy. at some point, we have to engage subjectively with ourselves and our world and derive some meaning. The meaning we make is faith, because that meaning is what we hope for.

But that's really kind of stupid when you think about it. Instead of caring if what you believe is actually true, you just want to believe what makes you feel good. That really means that anyone can believe anything for any reason or no reason at all, just because it appeals to them. Unicorns, leprechauns, magic, ghosts, spirits, gods, space aliens, conspiracy theories, what the heck, believe whatever you want, there are no objective standards for reality! Whether you find meaning in what you believe is really irrelevant, it's what you believe that matters. Find meaning in what is actually true, not just based on mindless emotionalism. Hoping for things that are patently untrue is absurd. Expecting Dumbledore to zap up a new car for you is ridiculous. You can have no worthwhile beliefs if you don't have realistic expectations.

 

[Nakosis]

Not from a biblical stand point.

Roman 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Knowing the sun will rise is not faith as it is not in the Word of God and as you will know, the sun is visible and not unseen.

Regards
DL

Hearing the word of God, testimony by your fellow man. It can inspire the required faith to seek knowledge of God.

You have to hope what others claim is true based on evidence you have not seen.

Up to you to test them at their word and determine for yourself based on the resultant evidence once seen.

No one should expect you to remain faithful to a teaching which provides no results.

 

[Cephus]

I don't know what definition we're using.. But, that qualifies as faith.

Only in bizarro world. There is a difference between justified trust and faith. Try again.

 

[sojourner]

Right now, what is best supported is not the existence of any god.

Ha! God can neither be proven nor disproven. Your statement is biased.

There is no objective evidence to support the existence of any god.

There is no objective evidence to support the non-existence of any god.

But that's really kind of stupid when you think about it.

No it's not at all "stupid."

Instead of caring if what you believe is actually true, you just want to believe what makes you feel good.

Huh. That wasn't what I said. Instead of actually addressing what was said, you just want to twist meaning and make it say what makes you feel good.

That really means that anyone can believe anything for any reason or no reason at all, just because it appeals to them.

We're not talking about belief. We're talking about faith. Two different things. Don't conflate one with the other in order to bolster a poor position.

Unicorns, leprechauns, magic, ghosts, spirits, gods, space aliens, conspiracy theories, what the heck, believe whatever you want, there are no objective standards for reality!

That's not what I said, either. You're on a roll of misapprehension and misquotation, aren't you!

Whether you find meaning in what you believe is really irrelevant, it's what you believe that matters.

Nope. Meaning is what matters. Meaning, not belief, is what renders something important and relevant.

Find meaning in what is actually true, not just based on mindless emotionalism.

Isn't that what I said? I think it is!

Hoping for things that are patently untrue is absurd.

But hoping to find meaning in life experiences is not absurd.

Expecting Dumbledore to zap up a new car for you is ridiculous.

Hmmm... I don't recall using the terms "expect," "Dumbledore," or "zap." Why are you using them?

You can have no worthwhile beliefs if you don't have realistic expectations.

Again: this isn't about beliefs. But it is about realistic expectations.

I suspect that you're so busy dismissing something you're biased against, that you don't have time or attention to attend to the reality of faith in the human experience.

 

[sojourner]

Whose name for better morals can we place above God's?

I recognize that we are governed by better morals than what God displays but to a believer, we are less moral than his genocidal son murderer.

LOL. A Christian will say that we just don't understand God and are wrong in thinking of the immoral prick as a prick.

Regards
DL

Obvious troll.