Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[McBell]

So what did then?

I understand that you cannot grasp the meaning of "I don't know", therefore you shove god in to fill the blank, however, I am not so needy for an answer that I will stuff anything in just to have something other than "I don't know" to say when asked.

 

[McBell]

Most people believe they know what causes AIDS. For a decade, scientist, government officials, physicians, journalists, public-service ads, TV shows, and movies have told them that AIDS is caused by a retrovirus called HIV. This virus supposedly infects and kills the "T-cells" of the immune system, leading to an inevitably, fatal immune deficiency after an asymptomatic period that averages 10 years or so. Most people do not know-because there has been a visual media blackout on the subject-about a longstanding scientific controversy over the cause of AIDS. A controversy that has become increasingly heated as the official theory's predictions have turned out to be wrong.

Leading biochemical scientists, including University of California at Berkeley retrovirus expert Peter Duesberg and Nobel Prize winner Walter Gilbert, have been warning for years that there is no proof that HIV causes AIDS.

Robert Gallo, the leading exponent of the HIV theory, stomp away from the microphone in a rage when asked to respond to the views of Gilbert and Duesberg. Such displays of rage and ridicule are familiar to those who question the HIV theory of AIDS.

First, after spending billions of dollars, HIV researchers are still unable to explain how HIV, a conventional retrovirus with a very simple genetic organization, damages the immune system, much less how to stop it

Second, in the absence of any agreement about how HIV causes AIDS, the only evidence that HIV does cause AIDS is correlation. The correlation is imperfect at best, however.

There are many cases of persons with all the symptoms of AIDS who do not have any HIV infection. There are also many cases of persons who have been infected by HIV for more than a decade and show no signs of illness.

Third, predictions based on the HIV theory have failed spectacularly. AIDS in the United States and Europe has not spread through the general population. Rather, it remains almost entirely confined to the original risk groups, mainly sexually promiscuous gay men and drug abusers.

Duesberg on AIDS- What Causes AIDS?

God Did It.
Problem solved.

next?

 

[McBell]

To fail in disproving it is evidence that it works.

Wishful thinking on your part.

Or desperation....

not sure which

 

[Sapiens]

God Did It.
Problem solved.

next?

Do I incorrectly read into Serenity's post that God did it as punishment for being gay?

 

[George-ananda]

Or he was just outside his normal frame of reference. There is the old saw about "god" being that which is greater than the greatest that can be imagined. Sounds like he got a firm kick in his imaginator.

Here's what Serenity said

For example, I listen to a testimony of a man who died and was revived. He gave a detailed account of what happened to him whilst he was dead. A very convincing account as well, but for one detail that exposed it as a fraud, or the source was dubious. He said that he found himself in the presence of God.

I'm saying that 'God' part doesn't sound like you can conclude fraud to me.

I am a believer in Near Death Experiences because for one among many things researchers have shown repeatedly that people (even blind people) report things that couldn't have been known through normal channels.

I know atheists don't believe that NDE's are beyond the imaginator so I was speaking to Serenity not atheists with my post.

 

[Serenity7855]

Translation: I simply won't consider any real challenges to my beliefs. I will simply ignore them and claim victory.

What utter unadulterated and sanctimonious nonsense spewed forth from the mouth of someone who is so intellectually redundant on the subject of religion that he resorts to ad homenims and derision as a smokescreen to his ignorance.

 

[Serenity7855]

Do I incorrectly read into Serenity's post that God did it as punishment for being gay?

How would I know that. Do you think that god and I have coffee together every Tues at 1am. What a vacuous statement to make made from your ignorance of God. Besides, as indicated by the link it was a quote and not my words. What a fibble and puerile attempt to portray me as being judgemental and a homophobic.

 

[Serenity7855]

Have you considered that he may nave been in the presence of a great being or energy he didn't understand and used the word 'God'.

I believe in OBE's and NDE's, simply because i have my own experiences, I am just sceptical when people include the presence of God in their experiences simply because I know better. I was believing this Guy up until that point. I do not disbelieve him now as he could have been duped by Satan, or he may have just been mistaken. As it stands, he is wrong

 

[nazz]

What utter unadulterated and sanctimonious nonsense spewed forth from the mouth of someone who is so intellectually redundant on the subject of religion that he resorts to ad homenims and derision as a smokescreen to his ignorance.

Just calling it as I see it. I have not seen you address any challenges except to say "you are wrong and I am right".

 

[Sapiens]

Do I incorrectly read into Serenity's post that God did it as punishment for being gay?

How would I know that. Do you think that god and I have coffee together every Tues at 1am. What a vacuous statement to make made from your ignorance of God. Besides, as indicated by the link it was a quote and not my words. What a fibble and puerile attempt to portray me as being judgemental and a homophobic.

Methinks he doth protest too much when a simple "no" would have sufficed.

FYI: this is a "fibble":

I could not find a picture of a "purile."

 

[Serenity7855]

We're not to stump you, you are to stump us with irrefutable evidence of a god.

It would be like me claiming I saw a 5-headed unicorn and telling people to give evidence against it: it's not the point.

But I am not claiming anything, as you are doing with the 5-headed unicorn. My request has nothing to do with my personal belief in God. I am giving you a jig saw puzzle and I am asking you to complete it to see if the finished picture is true or false. Thus far all I am hearing is excuses not to do it, or to be incapable of doing it.

When I buy a workshop manual to remove the engine of my car I have to invest faith in the author. By looking at the instruction I can tell if the authors instructions are authentic and by following the instructions I will know for a surity if they are rational and logical. I have now taken that engine out and replaced it successfully because I followed those instructions. All I am asking is whether you can see any discrepancies in the instructions. I am not asking you to take the engine out of your car. I have not given you my experience of using the manual, until now, either, because Liam asking for unbiased scrutiny of the workshop manual to see if there are any discrepancies.

 

[Serenity7855]

Methinks he doth protest too much when a simple "no" would have sufficed.

FYI: this is a "fibble":

I could not find a picture of a "purile."

As demonstrated by your ill informed post on this forum I deemed that a simple "No" is insufficient.

 

[George-ananda]

I believe in OBE's and NDE's, simply because i have my own experiences, I am just sceptical when people include the presence of God in their experiences simply because I know better. I was believing this Guy up until that point. I do not disbelieve him now as he could have been duped by Satan, or he may have just been mistaken. As it stands, he is wrong

I just spent the last 10 minutes watching this. Well, this is a heck of a testimony from a previously non-believer. It fits so well with so many others I've heard.

However, I'm even more in disagreement with your assessment now. It seems your problem stems from the fact that he used the word 'God' for this being of light? If that's his word choice for a being of light beyond his understanding, I'm fine with it. Another experiencer might have chose a different word, so what?

 

[nazz]

But I am not claiming anything, as you are doing with the 5-headed unicorn. My request has nothing to do with my personal belief in God. I am giving you a jig saw puzzle and I am asking you to complete it to see if the finished picture is true or false. Thus far all I am hearing is excuses not to do it, or to be incapable of doing it.

When I buy a workshop manual to remove the engine of my car I have to invest faith in the author. By looking at the instruction I can tell if the authors instructions are authentic and by following the instructions I will know for a surity if they are rational and logical. I have now taken that engine out and replaced it successfully because I followed those instructions. All I am asking is whether you can see any discrepancies in the instructions. I am not asking you to take the engine out of your car. I have not given you my experience of using the manual, until now, either, because Liam asking for unbiased scrutiny of the workshop manual to see if there are any discrepancies.

Discrepancies in WHAT? I asked you nicely to provide your outline of what the "plan of redemption" was and you never did it. How can anyone point out any possible discrepancies if you won't even do this?

 

[Sapiens]

As demonstrated by your ill informed post on this forum I deemed that a simple "No" is insufficient.

Like I said, a simple "no" would have sufficed, now you've got everybody wondering just what flavor homophobe you are. Ah well ... you buttered your own bed, I guess now you have to lie in it.

Discrepancies in WHAT? I asked you nicely to provide your outline of what the "plan of redemption" was and you never did it. How can anyone point out any possible discrepancies if you won't even do this?

Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong
By the 'and of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.
Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.

 

[Serenity7855]

There is no longstanding controversy, the cause of AIDS is well known, and the introduction of highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) in 1996–1997, clinched it. WIth HAART the survival and general health of people with HIV improved significantly, that would not have been the case if HIV had not been the cause. This positive response to treatment with anti-HIV medication cemented the scientific acceptance of the HIV/AIDS paradigm, and prominent HIV/AIDS denialists changed their tune. Finding their arguments increasingly discredited by the scientific community, denialists took their message to the popular press. A former denialist wrote:

Scientists among the HIV dissidents used their academic credentials and academic affiliations to generate interest, sympathy, and allegiances in lay audiences. They were not professionally troubled about recruiting lay people—who were clearly unable to evaluate the scientific validity or otherwise of their views—to their cause. - He was talking about you, Serenity!

In addition to elements of the popular and alternative press, AIDS denialist ideas are propagated largely via the Internet.

A 2007 article in PLoS Medicine noted:

Because these denialist assertions are made in books and on the Internet rather than in the scientific literature, many scientists are either unaware of the existence of organized denial groups, or believe they can safely ignore them as the discredited fringe. And indeed, most of the HIV deniers' arguments were answered long ago by scientists. However, many members of the general public do not have the scientific background to critique the assertions put forth by these groups, and not only accept them but continue to propagate them. - He was talking about you, Serenity!

With thanks to: Wiki - HIV/AIDS denialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are quite simply wrong, and way out of touch with science. Scientists are now coming to the conclusion that HIV does not cause AIDS and that they have never been able to published a single paper on how HIV causes AIDS, where as there are literally hundreds of published papers showing that HIV cannot cause AIDS. Medication? AzT is the most toxic substance ever subscribed to man. It is a DNA inhibiter. It is AIDS by percription. Rather than finding their arguments increasingly discredited by the scientific community, the opposite is true and the desenters are being vindicated, which has happened so many times in history, where people like you see scientists as Gods and believe what ever manure that they feed you, whilst they get rich. Keep up man, your are making yourself look poorly educated again. But credit to you as you are an expert at insulting me and my Christian brothers here with your scathing and causticly vitreous denegration of theirs and my God. If you feel that much hatred for him then why come here where we speak of him. Surely that is like self harming, something that mentally ill people suffer with.You are an expert of the gutter mouth though and an ambassador for the dictatorials whose beliefs must be adhered to or they will stamp there feet.

 

[McBell]

You are quite simply wrong, and way out of touch with science. Scientists are now coming to the conclusion that HIV does not cause AIDS and that they have never been able to published a single paper on how HIV causes AIDS, where as there are literally hundreds of published papers showing that HIV cannot cause AIDS. Medication? AzT is the most toxic substance ever subscribed to man. It is a DNA inhibiter. It is AIDS by percription. Rather than finding their arguments increasingly discredited by the scientific community, the opposite is true and the desenters are being vindicated, which has happened so many times in history, where people like you see scientists as Gods and believe what ever manure that they feed you, whilst they get rich. Keep up man, your are making yourself look poorly educated again. But credit to you as you are an expert at insulting me and my Christian brothers here with your scathing and causticly vitreous denegration of theirs and my God. If you feel that much hatred for him then why come here where we speak of him. Surely that is like self harming, something that mentally ill people suffer with.You are an expert of the gutter mouth though and an ambassador for the dictatorials whose beliefs must be adhered to or they will stamp there feet.

Source please

 

[Serenity7855]

Discrepancies in WHAT? I asked you nicely to provide your outline of what the "plan of redemption" was and you never did it. How can anyone point out any possible discrepancies if you won't even do this?

I cannot do that. I would have to write a book on it. Its complexity fills every aspect of our beginning, why we are here and what is expected of us before we return. What surprises me is that you are here condemning Christianity yet you do not know what is our purpose, why we are here. How on earth can you critique my belief if you have to ask me what it is. Can you see how illogical that is, and it is typical of your fellow atheists here to do exactly the same. Sorry, but I have been waiting for someone to ask that question. I did not see it the first time, however, I have been waiting for someone to effectively ask what Christianity is by someone who denounces it. Thank you. The conclusion is that atheists must just like arguing even if they are completely ignorant of the subject matter being discused. If you want to get an idea as to what it is then go to lds.org and search for the plan of salvation or happiness, they give a pretty good description of it.

 

[Serenity7855]

Source please

I have already given it.

 

[Serenity7855]

I just spent the last 10 minutes watching this. Well, this is a heck of a testimony from a previously non-believer. It fits so well with so many others I've heard.

However, I'm even more in disagreement with your assessment now. It seems your problem stems from the fact that he used the word 'God' for this being of light? If that's his word choice for a being of light beyond his understanding, I'm fine with it. Another experiencer might have choice a different word, so what?

Well, yes. That is my disagreement about this being of light. Could he have used the word God inadvertently, yes, he could have, however, as it stand the word God is inappropriate, not forgetting that he has been a Christian for some time and the doctrine of perfection is pretty fundamental. That, and knowing that there are many congregations who believe that when we die we are tranfered directly into the arms of Jesus. That must take up a lot of his time with thousand dying all over the world every day, dispite the fact that he is perfect. I expected him to know better.