Faith in Christ is Completely Logical

[Serenity7855]

So you'd view Jesus as a totally separate entity from God, correct? While Jesus was walking the Earth, there was no "God" in heaven ... because he was busy doing carpentry work in Judea, right? And all this talk of "The Holy Spirit" is just figurative window dressing, yes?

One God. That's why they call it "monotheism" after all. Right?

I don't get it. I have already told you that I do not believe in God incarnate or the trinity. I have told you that neither are mentioned in scripture. The bible talks of the Godhead. God the eternal Father and his only begotten son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Three seperate and distinct individuals act as one. I get the feeling that you have never heard of the Godhead.

So God cannot know the future. That's what you're saying, right?

No, that is not what I am saying. Are you doing this on purpose. I said that God cannot know what decisions I am going to make - predestination. I have said that God is Alpha and Omega, knowing the beginning from the end.

Again: You are stating that it is impossible for God to know the future. Correct?

Incorrect.

Can you please cite a scripture that supports your view?

The whole sermon on the mount was about the introduction of the Abrahamic Covenant - free agency.

This is called having your theological cake and eating it too. Can you cite a scripture that states God cannot know the hearts of man? Cite a single scripture that puts limits on God's knowledge of things. Please.

"I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done." ~ Isaiah 46:10

There is no need for me to do that. God introduced the plan of redemption. A fundamental part of that plan is free agency. If God knew what you were going to do before you did it then free agency is compromised and predestination is introduced nullifying free agency. It is a simplistic concept.

It isn't up to me to define "good Christian." This is why I asked you. In my view, there is only one sort of Christian: Deluded.

Ah, there you go again with your need to be rude. Funny though In my view, there is only one sort of atheist: closed minded.

But if (as you've indicated above) you're defining "good Christian" as "physically perfect" I can accept that.

I don't know what a good Christian is. You used the term so you define it.

That's a tautology if ever there was one.

Not really, it seems as if you are asking the same question in a different guise making it look like I am repeating myself unnecessarily.

And does it then follow that God cannot do that which cannot be done?

Your not reading my post are you.

 

[Serenity7855]

Then he isn't omnipotent. Shall we parse out the definition of "omnipotent?" Why do you seem so hell-bent on chipping away at the notion of an "all-powerful" deity?

I think you are having difficulty comprehending the concept. It is not possible for anyone to know what cannot be known or do what cannot be done. It does not mean that God is any less omniscient because he cannot know that which cannot be known.


Omniscience/ɒmˈnɪʃəns/,[1] mainly in religion, is the capacity to know everything that there is to know. In particular


Omniscience - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Would you please define "magic?"

No, it is off topic.

The Bible clearly states that God created the heavens and the earth. It does not say that he "reorganized" what was already there.

Apart from the fact that the translation come from organise the definition also shows that it is to organise. Do you think that you can create something from nothing?


create
kriːˈeɪt/
verb

1. 
   1.
   
   bring (something) into existence."he created a thirty-acre lake"
   synonyms: generate, produce, design, make, fabricate, fashion, manufacture,build, construct, erect, do, turn out;
   
   bring into being, originate, invent,initiate, engender, devise, frame, develop, shape, form, mould, forge,concoct, hatch;
   informalknock together, knock up, knock off

You know, the more I read what you have to say ... the more I think you ought to pause a moment before you begin lobbing accusations of heresy at others, because your views are decidedly non-standard.

Many a good invention has been discovered by the abstract thinker. I am not a conventionalist but the thread is about falsifying the plan of redemption not what God I believe in.

I'm calling "New Revised Bulls**t" on that assertion. Observe:

Coming from someone who does not have a clue about that which he debates I feel complimented. Love the use of foul language. It tell me where you come from and how serious I should take you.

"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." ~ 1 John 3:20

"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." ~ Psalm 147:5

Please explain how you can limit that which is infinite.

You are taking scripture out of context and cherry picking. A common trait of desperate atheists.

What you're advocating sounds perilously close to the notion that God tempted Eve, aren't you? That's strictly against scripture:

Right. You have jumped from the serpent tempting to it being God. That is dishonest.

Right I am going to stop here as you are becoming increasingly offensive and disperate to score a point, something you have yet to do. Your knowledge of Christianity is too sparse to debate with. You do not even know the difference between the trinity and the Godhead. You really need to study the subject matter that you are condemning before you try to condemn it and let go of the bitterness you have for Christianity. Are you a failed Christian as well?.

 

[Dr. Strange]

"The whole sermon on the mount was about the introduction of the Abrahamic Covenant - free agency."

Not certain that I follow your line of thinking here. What do you mean to say, "introduction of the Abrahamic Covenant."

"8. the pure of heart: Purity of heart is opposed to the external Levitical purity achieved by ritual ablution: this is a frequent object of contention between Jesus and the Pharisees. What is meant by purity of heart is explained in 15: 10-20. It is manifested in principally by speech, which betrays one's thoughts and desires. The reward of purity of heart is to see God. . . . [signifies] admission to the presence of God (see 18:10). . . . "

What I get from this is that "free agency" is "opposed" to the "Abrahamic Covenant."

 

[Bunyip]

EVOLUTION IS FACT, PROVEN:


EVOLUTION IS NOT FACT, NOT PROVEN:


Let battle commence. I side with evolution being correct but unproven.... as it is too big a subject to prove after the fact.

Evolution was proven more than a century ago Robert. If you want to have a serious debate about that you need a time machine to go back to 1850.
Evolution is defined in biology as changes in allele frequency over time - and those allele frequency changes are observable.

 

[Artemis]

This is so untrue. I was raised Christian, I assure you I have read the Bible. Reading it actually showed me that it is NOT the word of God, - but of men.

As to all that healing, protecting, answering, bull, - I live in a small town where you know everybody.

Christians have no better health, or protection from problems, nor are their prayers being answered.

They are statistically no different then any other people.

*

a
It all depends on how you approach and how you read the Bible.if you approach with negative attitude,the result is from the beginning negative. Wasn't there one incident that touched you? You are not saying everything, not the whole truth. There must have been something.God works separately with each soul,each soul is precious for Him.if you were a small community as you say, were you studying together .I want to help you if you wish, but I can' t if you don'let me. I lost a brother 20 years old, a year older than me. I was not a reborn Christian then, but my mum was.I saw how couragios she was and she helped me.later in years, I faced more serious problems .Christians do face the same problems as any other people, but their faith and prayers make them face their problems from another side. That's where the HS helps the believer ,He prays for you.you see you have just read the bible as a common book.that's why you did not understand its value.Read and study it with a different approach and you will see marvelous results.If you need any help I will be here to help you as much as I can God bless you.

 

[Ingledsva]

a
It all depends on how you approach and how you read the Bible.if you approach with negative attitude,the result is from the beginning negative. Wasn't there one incident that touched you? You are not saying everything, not the whole truth. There must have been something.God works separately with each soul,each soul is precious for Him.if you were a small community as you say, were you studying together .I want to help you if you wish, but I can' t if you don'let me. I lost a brother 20 years old, a year older than me. I was not a reborn Christian then, but my mum was.I saw how couragios she was and she helped me.later in years, I faced more serious problems .Christians do face the same problems as any other people, but their faith and prayers make them face their problems from another side. That's where the HS helps the believer ,He prays for you.you see you have just read the bible as a common book.that's why you did not understand its value.Read and study it with a different approach and you will see marvelous results.If you need any help I will be here to help you as much as I can God bless you.

This is again bull! I was RAISED Christian. It was after I actually started studying the Bible, as opposed to "reading" it, that I came to the conclusion that it is written by man. I also took Comparative Religion.

I can in no way believe God (if there is one,) is the evil, murdering, patriarch law making, being, put forward in the Bible. Men are the ones whom think they need to OWN women, and keep concubines (sex slaves.) Men are the ones wanting to be able to RAPE prisoners of war. Men are the ones using God as an excuse to make war in a land grab. The Bible and its laws are written by men. The "Heroes" of the Bible commit genocide against their own people over and over, because they refuse the new One God, or turn back to their old Gods. They kidnap and rape their own women. There is no real God in this book. It needs an "Explicit Sex and Violence" warning.

*

 

[Renji]

EVOLUTION IS FACT, PROVEN:


EVOLUTION IS NOT FACT, NOT PROVEN:

Why do you think so? Because "it's just a theory"?
Advancements in genetic studies prove that it's actually a fact.'How about that?

 

[Serenity7855]

This is again bull! I was RAISED Christian. It was after I actually started studying the Bible, as opposed to "reading" it, that I came to the conclusion that it is written by man. I also took Comparative Religion.

I can in no way believe God (if there is one,) is the evil, murdering, patriarch law making, being, put forward in the Bible. Men are the ones whom think they need to OWN women, and keep concubines (sex slaves.) Men are the ones wanting to be able to RAPE prisoners of war. Men are the ones using God as an excuse to make war in a land grab. The Bible and its laws are written by men. The "Heroes" of the Bible commit genocide against their own people over and over, because they refuse the new One God, or turn back to their old Gods. They kidnap and rape their own women. There is no real God in this book. It needs an "Explicit Sex and Violence" warning.

*

You read a very different bible to mine. You also judge God by the actions of men.

 

[Serenity7855]

Why do you think so? Because "it's just a theory"?
Advancements in genetic studies prove that it's actually a fact.'How about that?

That is by no means conclusive, however, Robert has not said that evolution did not take place, he said it wasn't proven. He is right. The time between any transition is to long to observe.

 

[Bunyip]

You read a very different bible to mine. You also judge God by the actions of men.

Of course - if you believe the Bible god made men. Of course we can judge god by the actions of his creation.

If my Ducati kept falling apart, I would blame the manufacturer.

 

[Renji]

That is by no means conclusive, however, Robert has not said that evolution did not take place, he said it wasn't proven. He is right. The time between any transition is to long to observe.

And so because it 'isn't observable', does that actually make the 'god of the gaps' a logical belief?

 

[Bunyip]

That is by no means conclusive, however, Robert has not said that evolution did not take place, he said it wasn't proven. He is right. The time between any transition is to long to observe.

It is a common misconception.

EVOLUTION is proven fact, the THEORY OF EVOLUTION explains the facts. Transitions have been observed any times, in fact speciation was first observed more than a century ago.

EVOLUTION is a proven fact

THEORIES are never proven, they explain the facts.

Hope that helps.

 

[Desert Snake]

Of course - if you believe the Bible god made men. Of course we can judge god by the actions of his creation.

If my Ducati kept falling apart, I would blame the manufacturer.

Actually we would be close to automatons without freewill then. Yayy.

And so because it 'isn't observable', does that actually make the 'god of the gaps' a logical belief?

'god of the gaps' is pretty silly. Strawman.

 

[Bunyip]

Actually we would be close to automatons without freewill then. Yayy.

No need to preach to the converted my friend. I am not religious.

 

[McBell]

And so because it 'isn't observable', does that actually make the 'god of the gaps' a logical belief?

Actually, it reveals a double standard.
I mean, it isn't as though anyone saw creation, right?

 

[McBell]

It is a common misconception.

EVOLUTION is proven fact, the THEORY OF EVOLUTION explains the facts. Transitions have been observed any times, in fact speciation was first observed more than a century ago.

EVOLUTION is a proven fact

THEORIES are never proven, they explain the facts.

Hope that helps.

Do you happen to know the definition of insanity?

doing the same failed thing over and over again expecting different results​

 

[Bunyip]

And so because it 'isn't observable', does that actually make the 'god of the gaps' a logical belief?

Great point. If you examine most of the popular arguments for the existence of god, they reduce to some of of argument from ignorance.

 

[Bunyip]

Do you happen to know the definition of insanity?

doing the same failed thing over and over again expecting different results​

Buying a DUCATI 916 when you live on a dirt road?

 

[McBell]

Buying a DUCATI 916 when you live on a dirt road?

pssst....
highlight post #677

 

[Bunyip]

pssst....
highlight post #677

Sorry, let my personal regrets spoil my focus for a sec.