Faith in no God

[sam swift]

Since it can not be proven there is no God any more than it can not be proven there is a God, it would take no less faith to believe there is no God than it would take to believe there is a God.

Without faith in one or the other, the only true thing someone could say is they don't know if there is not, or there is a God. At least that would accord with the lack of evidence one way or the other.

If there is a difference in the faith required to believe one way or the other, I'd be curious to hear about that difference.

It can be proven there is a GOD real simple history proves it take Christ on the cross written 1000years before hand in psalms 22 Christ taught that psalms on the cross my god my god why have you forsaken me Christ was telling you go to psalms 22 them were davids words vrs 18 cast lots for his clothing vrs 31 that he has done this same as john 19vrs30 it is finished man cant do that only GOD david foretold the cross 1000yrs before Christ word for word taught by Christ vrs 8 is the same as matthew 27vrs43

 

[sam swift]

Since it can not be proven there is no God any more than it can not be proven there is a God, it would take no less faith to believe there is no God than it would take to believe there is a God.

Without faith in one or the other, the only true thing someone could say is they don't know if there is not, or there is a God. At least that would accord with the lack of evidence one way or the other.

If there is a difference in the faith required to believe one way or the other, I'd be curious to hear about that difference.

It can be proven there is a GOD real simple history proves it take Christ on the cross written 1000years before hand in psalms 22 Christ taught that psalms on the cross my god my god why have you forsaken me Christ was telling you go to psalms 22 them were davids words vrs 18 cast lots for his clothing vrs 31 that he has done this same as john 19vrs30 it is finished man cant do that only GOD david foretold the cross 1000yrs before Christ word for word taught by Christ vrs 8 is the same as matthew 27vrs43

 

[rrobs]

Well, science is the gold standard....

Written long before the scientific method became established.
Apparently god prefers the emotional, illogical and irrational, and disparages the intelligence he gave us.

Not sure why you would say that.

No. It is not (religious) faith that God doesn't exist. It is unbelief in the believers claim that God exists. Like it or not, that is how it is.
Usually when a person is posting as a Christian, others may assume they are using the religious connotation of faith.

There are better words to use for the lack of belief in theists claims about gods, like unbelief or lack of belief in the claims. Using the word faith is illogical and confusing for that purpose.

t
Would it be acceptable to say that it is unbelief in the unbelievers claim that God does not exist which I claim for myself? Would that be more logical, less confusing?

 

[rrobs]

And you might also try not to say I hope blue fairies do not exist, which could also be read as an insult to my intelligence.

ciao

- viole

Could be, but without sufficient context any such claim is questionable at best. The fact is that I have idea whatsoever as to your IQ.

 

[rrobs]

Then please debunk the video below:

I appreciate the video, but as I said, I believe God very much exists and is the creator of all we see. I'm just giving the unbelievers a bit of leeway. I'm approaching the issue from their perspective.

In any case, I'll watch the video. It looks good. Thanks.

 

[Bird123]

Your words didn’t describe anything beyond the functioning of your own mind, aspects of which you call God.

You talk about God talking to you, and ‘stopping by’...(to confirm what you already believe !), but give no indication of what that means, apart from you indulging in the idea that your thoughts and feelings are God.

I have no problem with your naming of your innate wisdom, or intuitions, as ‘God’.
However, coupling that to some theological proposition is redundant, misleading and divisive.

God is a Spiritual Being. Defining spiritual in physical terms is not possible except as I have done. God has ways far greater than I am capable.

Unlike religion, I am not asking you to Believe anything. On the other hand I have pointed you in a direction by which you can Discover it all for yourself. This is the best way because when you bump into God, Beliefs are no longer necessary. There will be no more doubts.

I suspect you need to Discover who you are first. If you can not tell the difference between your physical body and who you really are, there is much you need to Discover.

An encounter with God without a degree of understanding would most likely leave you just confused. Even with much knowledge and understanding, it's going to be a Stretch!!

God's IQ is really really up there. Remember we are ants. Have you talked with any ants lately? Better have your hamster running wide open in that squirrel cage if and when God shows up at your door. It will not be an average every day encounter. On the other hand I think everyone is capable of getting there.

The journey will not be served up on a silver platter as beliefs are. Discovery takes work. Look around you. Knowledge must be earned. God does not serve it out to be accepted or rejected. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. When one opens a door, it leads to more doors that can be opened. Put the puzzle together. The rest is up to God.

No one's journey depends on me. It comes down to what each of us wants and how badly. Free choice is an important part of the system. It has never ever been about beliefs or control. It's education at it's best!!

 

[rrobs]

So then it takes the same amount of faith, for you, to believe the mighty Cthulhu does not lurk beneath the waves in his Eldritch fortress, waiting for his time to rise and devour all of mankind, as that he does.

So then how do we go about discovering which of us is right, since all beliefs take equal amounts of faith?

On a more(or less?) serious note, I do not need to know that a claim is wrong to dismiss it, if no evidence exists to support said claim. I do not often wonder if fairies or garden gnomes actually exist. How is this any different?

Do you often wonder about fairies and garden gnomes?

I think that comparing a belief (or non-belief) in God is quite a bit different than a belief (or non-belief) in fairies or unicorns. One may not come to the firm conviction that there is a God by looking at the universe, but at least it is a more tenable argument for his existence than nothing, which is the totality of reason to believe in fairies. Just not a good comparison.

 

[rrobs]

You lost me in the intellectual abyss of delusional belief.

I was addressing some other post. I don't even remember exactly what, but knowing the context of my statement would clarify things. No matter, it's not that important.

 

[Bird123]

Yup... Sure...

Female Hyenas Have a "Penis" That They Use To Give Birth

...female hyenas do have a penis-like organ, complete with a fake scrotum and testes
... If that wasn’t weird enough, the female hyenas have to give birth through these things. Spotted hyenas have the largest carnivoran young relative to their mothers’ weight, so not only does their clitoris rupture during birth, but often, 60% of their first litter dies of suffocation inside their pseudopenis. So, for some reason, hyenas evolved to make childbirth even more painful and traumatic.​

That took a super intelligence to create.

Interesting. Perhaps there is more knowledge that exists beyond the surface you have not considered.

Your Quote:for some reason, hyenas evolved to make childbirth even more painful and traumatic.
MY ANSWER: Perhaps you need to Discover what that reason really is. The view might change before your eyes.

Mankind's goal is to have it made and never hurt. I can tell you this that is not God's goal. Doesn't a more important Goal really exist?

That's what I see. It's very clear.

 

[Howard Is]

God is a Spiritual Being. Defining spiritual in physical terms is not possible except as I have done. God has ways far greater than I am capable.

Unlike religion, I am not asking you to Believe anything. On the other hand I have pointed you in a direction by which you can Discover it all for yourself. This is the best way because when you bump into God, Beliefs are no longer necessary. There will be no more doubts.

I suspect you need to Discover who you are first. If you can not tell the difference between your physical body and who you really are, there is much you need to Discover.

An encounter with God without a degree of understanding would most likely leave you just confused. Even with much knowledge and understanding, it's going to be a Stretch!!

God's IQ is really really up there. Remember we are ants. Have you talked with any ants lately? Better have your hamster running wide open in that squirrel cage if and when God shows up at your door. It will not be an average every day encounter. On the other hand I think everyone is capable of getting there.

The journey will not be served up on a silver platter as beliefs are. Discovery takes work. Look around you. Knowledge must be earned. God does not serve it out to be accepted or rejected. Wisdom is acquired on the journey to Discover knowledge. When one opens a door, it leads to more doors that can be opened. Put the puzzle together. The rest is up to God.

No one's journey depends on me. It comes down to what each of us wants and how badly. Free choice is an important part of the system. It has never ever been about beliefs or control. It's education at it's best!!

Lots of advertising. No product.

 

[Bird123]

Lots of advertising. No product.

You asked. I answered. I have no product. I make no demands. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!!

That's what I see. It's very clear.

 

[rrobs]

Sorry, but that's simply not true. Lacking a belief that something definitely exists is NOT the same as asserting that that thing definitely does not exist.

For example, let's say the two of us enter a room that neither of us has ever been in before and in this room is a large jar filled to the brim with various sized marbles. After looking at the jar for a moment I say: "I believe that there are EXACTLY 448 marbles in that jar, no more and no less." I then turn to you and ask. "Do you also believe that there exactly 448 marbles in this jar, no more and no less?"

NOTE: I did NOT ask you if you thought that it was POSSIBLE that there are 448, but if you believed that there definitely ARE 448 marbles in the jar.

So, if you glance at the jar and say, "No, I do not believe that there are definitely 448 marbles in the jar, no more and no less." Are you ALSO claiming that you believe it's IMPOSSIBLE for there to be 448 marbles... or are you simply saying, based on the evidence you've been presented, that you can't sincerely believe that there are 448 marbles?

So surely you now recognize that someone stating that they don't have sufficient evidence to believe that a god definitely exists is NOT the same as claiming that a god definitely does not exist, right?.

I would say that someone who hasn't sufficient evidence to believe God is the same as saying, "I don't know if God exists?" I allowed for that possibility in the OP and it is a very honest attitude. As in the marbles (good analogy) the possibility that God exists should always be an option. Or I better say "could." Wouldn't want to be telling people what they should do, especially in a religious forum.

 

[rrobs]

But I and most atheist have never made the assertion that no god or gods exist. I simply lack a belief that any god or gods definitely DO exist.

And IF I DON'T KNOW if any gods exist then I absolutely CANNOT have a belief that they definitely DO exist; thus pure logic dictates that I MUST lack a belief that any such gods definitely do exist.

Well, is a lack of belief a belief itself? I don't know, just wondering.

All in all, I just think we live our lives way more by faith than many wish to acknowledge. Faith is held to be the antithesis of knowledge. Actually, when you think about it, we have faith in that which we know. Knowledge and faith go hand in hand. Whether that knowledge is reflective of reality (assuming there is a reality) is another question, but faith is based upon familiarity. I'd lend $100 bucks to a long time friend who I know to be reliable, where I probably wouldn't lend it to a stranger. The stranger might in fact be way more reliable than my friend, but without knowing them for some time, I'd have little faith in them.

 

[rrobs]

It can be proven there is a GOD real simple history proves it take Christ on the cross written 1000years before hand in psalms 22 Christ taught that psalms on the cross my god my god why have you forsaken me Christ was telling you go to psalms 22 them were davids words vrs 18 cast lots for his clothing vrs 31 that he has done this same as john 19vrs30 it is finished man cant do that only GOD david foretold the cross 1000yrs before Christ word for word taught by Christ vrs 8 is the same as matthew 27vrs43

You're preaching to the choir my friend and brother. I was playing the part of the unbeliever. Some kind of literary technique I guess.

Thanks for the good words. You can't go wrong quoting the scriptures!

 

[rrobs]

God is a Spiritual Being. Defining spiritual in physical terms is not possible except as I have done. God has ways far greater than I am capable.

Yes God is spirit. That gives Him a huge image problem. It's hard to see, hear, smell, taste, or touch a spirit, so, as you said, it is quite impossible to grasp God with our senses knowledge.

Enter Jesus Christ; he was very much understandable and since he claimed to be an exact image of God, we can know God through Jesus. In short, the scriptures make known Jesus and Jesus makes known God.

I think you may be misunderstanding my posts. I'm playing the part of the unbeliever, trying to see the logic behind their choices.

 

[McBell]

Well, is a lack of belief a belief itself?

No.
Lack of belief is just that, a lack of belief.
Unless you are going to Humpty Dumpty some words.....

All in all, I just think we live our lives way more by faith than many wish to acknowledge. Faith is held to be the antithesis of knowledge. Actually, when you think about it, we have faith in that which we know. Knowledge and faith go hand in hand. Whether that knowledge is reflective of reality (assuming there is a reality) is another question, but faith is based upon familiarity. I'd lend $100 bucks to a long time friend who I know to be reliable, where I probably wouldn't lend it to a stranger. The stranger might in fact be way more reliable than my friend, but without knowing them for some time, I'd have little faith in them.

Yes.
I know a lot of people who reduce the definition of the word "faith" to a meaningless term in order to justify their own faith.
Sadly, they do not understand that in doing so, they render their own faith just as worthless.
At least in the eyes of those they are trying to convince.

 

[Howard Is]

You asked. I answered. I have no product. I make no demands. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!!

That's what I see. It's very clear.

You sound like a young fox on thin ice.

You make a lot of assumptions about me that are very wrong. I haven’t bothered correcting you. Let’s just say I’m well educated in ways that are relevant to this discussion.

You say God speaks to you, that you have seen God, that God drops by to give you spiritual information. I can see perfectly clearly what you mean. The ‘God-spot’ in your brain is very active. I’ve seen it hundreds of times. I’ve even been there myself. You are interpreting your intuitions as Divine communication. God is the ultimate Imaginary Friend.

You think you have a very special insight. You are probably narcissistic.
You are as yet too undeveloped in your understanding to realise that your particular experience of the G-spot is just that - your particular experience.

That doesn’t make all of your understanding wrong.

But you need to identify and deal with those narcissistic tendencies, especially the notion that you have a very special understanding that most people lack. Because it blinds you. It has certainly blinded you to the possibility that I (and others) have understanding which may well exceed yours. In other words, narcissism destroys humility.

You are having a relationship with creative intelligence, which is not unique to ‘spiritual’ people. The ‘spiritual person’ thing is really just a social style, not a sign of revelation.

 

[Jim]

You're getting off the track here. Can you prove there is no God? No, you can't any more than I can prove there is a God. Lacking proof, both of us accept what we think by faith. That's all I'm saying.

The reason I brought the whole think up was to make non-believers realize that the faith with which they accept their world view is no different than those whom they often criticize for living by faith. Just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. I'm not trying to convert anyone, just give folks a chance to see that faith is not such an evil thing. We all have it.

It looks to mr like you’re saying that when people denounce people for believing in God without evidence, they’re doing the same thing that they say the believers are doing. They’re believing without evidence that there is no God. You wanted to point out the hypocrisy in that, and you thought that if people who are denouncing faith in God could see that they have faith themselves, they might stop denouncing it?

 

[Jim]

I see people on side E of a volleyball court endlessly repeating the same arguments, denouncing the beliefs of people on side F, and people on side F endlessly repeating the same arguments, trying to ... trying to ... what are they trying to do anyway?

Maybe, trying to prove to themselves that they aren’t wtong?

 

[QuestioningMind]

I would say that someone who hasn't sufficient evidence to believe God is the same as saying, "I don't know if God exists?" I allowed for that possibility in the OP and it is a very honest attitude. As in the marbles (good analogy) the possibility that God exists should always be an option. Or I better say "could." Wouldn't want to be telling people what they should do, especially in a religious forum.

Personally I'd say it's closer to: I have no good reason to believe that god exists.