False Flags

[dust1n]

An atheist walks into a bar, shoots a dozen people, and yells "God is great..."

Sorry, working on a new premise for a joke.

 

[YmirGF]

Atheists, by definition, lack the means to trap themselves into killing "in God's name", so yes.

I'm trying to imagine a band of hardcore atheists, launching some kind of terrorist attack, during which they are heard to be yelling quotes from Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion.

 

[dust1n]

I'm trying to imagine a band of hardcore atheists, launching some kind of terrorist attack, during which they are heard to be yelling quotes from Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion.

Well, they obviously wouldn't be real atheists. Real atheists would never do something like that. They call themselves atheists, but really, they are Muslims in disguise as atheists.

 

[YmirGF]

Religion doesn't motivate killing innocent people, thats what makes me surprising of the purpose behind those crimes done by the name of religion.

The key part here is in the word innocent. It is true that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people. The thing is, in the eyes of many Muslims, (the people at) Charlie Hebdo were guilty of gravely insulting Muslims, Islam and your prophet, Muhammad.

Deciding to seek vengeance is not exactly a huge leap for a fanatical Muslim to make.

 

[Flankerl]

Fascinating thread.

 

[FearGod]

The key part here is in the word innocent. It is true that Islam forbids the killing of innocent people. The thing is, in the eyes of many Muslims, (the people at) Charlie Hebdo were guilty of gravely insulting Muslims, Islam and your prophet, Muhammad.

Deciding to seek vengeance is not exactly a huge leap for a fanatical Muslim to make.

Insulting isn't a reason to kill someone, the quran makes it clear that fighting only permitted for defense and never for ones opinion, that is crazy, killing someone for a statement he wrote or a word he said or an image he drew, is really disgusting.

It is really pathetic and i blame the french government for not protecting them since they did know that they were threatened by terrorist groups, i remembered the one American who decided to burn the quran, many policemen were protecting him even though they didn't agree with him but anyway his madness doesn't deserve the killing.

 

[FearGod]

I think they are religious fascists following a perverted interpretation of Islamic teachings. The idea that they are atheists is just silly.

The quran is very clear regarding killing, it isn't allowed to kill a person except if he murdered someone and still God asked to forgive the murderer if in an case that the family of the victim asked for it, refusing what the quran says and murdering innocent people is a crime and hence they're atheists by rejecting the quran, as one verse says that who don't follow God's commands then he's an atheist.

 

[Nietzsche]

The quran is very clear regarding killing, it isn't allowed to kill a person except if he murdered someone and still God asked to forgive the murderer if in an case that the family of the victim asked for it, refusing what the quran says and murdering innocent people is a crime and hence they're atheists by rejecting the quran, as one verse says that who don't follow God's commands then he's an atheist.

...

That's not what atheist means. These people clearly believe in God. By that alone they cannot possibly be atheists.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The quran is very clear regarding killing, it isn't allowed to kill a person except if he murdered someone and still God asked to forgive the murderer if in an case that the family of the victim asked for it, refusing what the quran says and murdering innocent people is a crime and hence they're atheists by rejecting the quran, as one verse says that who don't follow God's commands then he's an atheist.

Please tell that to ISIS and the Islamic extremists. Please put them straight about jihad. We atheists can't do it because they would chop our heads off, but perhaps you would be more successful.

 

[YmirGF]

Insulting isn't a reason to kill someone, the quran makes it clear that fighting only permitted for defense and never for ones opinion, that is crazy, killing someone for a statement he wrote or a word he said or an image he drew, is really disgusting.

It is really pathetic and i blame the french government for not protecting them since they did know that they were threatened by terrorist groups, i remembered the one American who decided to burn the quran, many policemen were protecting him even though they didn't agree with him but anyway his madness doesn't deserve the killing.

You know that is the ideal, FearGod, but you also must be aware of the fact that some Muslim scholars do NOT agree with you. All these folks need is that one scholar and they are good to go.

Also, if the police considered the threats to him to be significant enough to offer him protection what does that say about your allegations above that this is unIslamic? Obviously, there are devout Muslims who disagree with you... and they would have no issue killing you too.

 

[FearGod]

You know that is the ideal, FearGod, but you also must be aware of the fact that some Muslim scholars do NOT agree with you. All these folks need is that one scholar and they are good to go.

I don't think it's as easy as you described it, the scholar can't fool the public and if he can then he doesn't posses the power to finance and employ them to make such assaults not similar to Bush fooling the Americans to die in Afghanistan and Iraq as he possesses the power to send them any where he wishes after being able to easily fooling them.

Also, if the police considered the threats to him to be significant enough to offer him protection what does that say about your allegations above that this is unIslamic? Obviously, there are devout Muslims who disagree with you... and they would have no issue killing you too.

Islam as a religion doesn't allow killing of innocents, no excuses whatsoever, so thats why i said that those terrorists are atheists wearing a religious mask to destroy the religion itself, as you see that atheists hate religion mainly Islam and they may do anything to destroy it, i think its the Satan power on earth and the period of "dajjal" which means the period of lies and fooling the others which will come to an end with the 2nd coming of Jesus, off course you don't believe that.

 

[FearGod]

...

That's not what atheist means. These people clearly believe in God. By that alone they cannot possibly be atheists.

The quran says the atheists are the ones who rejects God's commandments, not to kill is just one.

 

[FearGod]

Please tell that to ISIS and the Islamic extremists. Please put them straight about jihad. We atheists can't do it because they would chop our heads off, but perhaps you would be more successful.

Do you think all atheists are the same ? and all Hindus, Muslims...etc

 

[FearGod]

Well, they obviously wouldn't be real atheists. Real atheists would never do something like that. They call themselves atheists, but really, they are Muslims in disguise as atheists.

Still Muslims won't kill as means of cheating, so still they'll be atheists according to religion.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Still Muslims won't kill as means of cheating, so still they'll be atheists according to religion.

Right, let's see. There are religious fascists using a perverted version of Islam to justify barbarity. They clearly believe in God but are not proper Muslims. So they must be atheists. Hmmm......

 

[FearGod]

An atheist walks into a bar, shoots a dozen people, and yells "God is great..."

Sorry, working on a new premise for a joke.

Why ?
Did God order believers to kill people sitting in a bar ?
I wonder that atheists think of themselves as the Angels and the believers as devils.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why ?
Did God order believers to kill people sitting in a bar ?
I wonder that atheists think of themselves as the Angels and the believers as devils.

That is not the question that presents itself right now. Rather, it is how come people who clearly believe in God should be considered atheists despite all available evidence and against their own judgement and behavior.

 

[FearGod]

Right, let's see. There are religious fascists using a perverted version of Islam to justify barbarity. They clearly believe in God but are not proper Muslims. So they must be atheists. Hmmm......

We call them in Islam as the hypocrites, higher degree than atheism.
They show themselves as religious people whereas in heart they're devils.

 

[FearGod]

That is not the question that presents itself right now. Rather, it is how come people who clearly believe in God should be considered atheists despite all available evidence and against their own judgement and behavior.

Simply because they rejected ones of God's commands, not to kill and to make aggression.
There is no one commandment in the scripture asking to kill those who insulted God or the prophet, so i find no other option other than they were atheists or even hypocrites.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

They show themselves as religious people whereas in heart they're devils.

On that we are in agreement.