Far Right - German Election

[Heyo]

Let's rewind this a bit. Can we agree that Neo-Nazis are evil, but not stupid?

Nope.

 

[icehorse]

Nope.

It's not wise to underestimate our opponents.

 

[Heyo]

It's not wise to underestimate our opponents.

It's not smart to follow an ideology that has failed so spectacularly.

 

[icehorse]

It's not smart to follow an ideology that has failed so spectacularly.

ffs, no one on RF is following this ideology. but Neo Nazis exist and we must combat them. We shouldn't pretend they don't exist, and we shouldn't pretend they are idiots.

 

[Estro Felino]

ffs, no one on RF is following this ideology. but Neo Nazis exist and we must combat them. We shouldn't pretend they don't exist, and we shouldn't pretend they are idiots.

I hope that by Neo Nazis you don't mean AfD or FPÖ.
They are just Christian Democrats with slightly populist ideas.

Very ordinary...you know...in continental Europe there are dozens of parties but they all look exactly the same. It sounds like duping voters.

 

[Heyo]

ffs, no one on RF is following this ideology. but Neo Nazis exist and we must combat them. We shouldn't pretend they don't exist, and we shouldn't pretend they are idiots.

Ticks and mosquitoes are dangerous without being smart. Neo-Nazis are idiots, which doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, especially to other idiots. They do exist, and there are much too many of them. And by recognizing them as the idiots they are, we have a better chance to fight them as when we'd try to appeal to their intelligence. With them, you have to be prepared for crazy moves no sane person would ever make.

 

[icehorse]

Ticks and mosquitoes are dangerous without being smart. Neo-Nazis are idiots, which doesn't mean they aren't dangerous, especially to other idiots. They do exist, and there are much too many of them. And by recognizing them as the idiots they are, we have a better chance to fight them as when we'd try to appeal to their intelligence. With them, you have to be prepared for crazy moves no sane person would ever make.

No one is proposing that we try to "appeal to their intelligence", sigh.

But tell me when is it a good idea to underestimate dangerous people? That seems like an almost universally poor strategy.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let's rewind this a bit. Can we agree that Neo-Nazis are evil, but not stupid?

I don't see how that's relevant to the point.

I can only repeat myself. The entire far right that I am familiar with, reeks of racism.
Everytime someone is involved in racist cases (be it in chats, in real life, in rallies, what-have-you), it always concerns either party members OR their voters.
It's pretty consistent.

Whenever you meet a racist, you know in advance what party he or she votes for.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

I didn't say anything about being stupid, as in low IQ.
However, their voter base do tend to be among the lesser educated.

 

[icehorse]

I don't see how that's relevant to the point.

I can only repeat myself. The entire far right that I am familiar with, reeks of racism.
Everytime someone is involved in racist cases (be it in chats, in real life, in rallies, what-have-you), it always concerns either party members OR their voters.
It's pretty consistent.

Whenever you meet a racist, you know in advance what party he or she votes for.

I don't think that's a coincidence.

I didn't say anything about being stupid, as in low IQ.
However, their voter base do tend to be among the lesser educated.

I don't think secular societies should entertain those who want to spread theocracy. Does that make me a racist?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I don't think secular societies should entertain those who want to spread theocracy. Does that make me a racist?

I have just spend several posts pointing out that it doesn't seem to be about religion.
Having said that, it's not exactly the case either that if the extreme right gets to implement their entire program, that the epitome of democratic society would be the outcome....

 

[icehorse]

I have just spend several posts pointing out that it doesn't seem to be about religion.

IMO, Islam is a totalitarian ideology, with a religious facet. While I agree that there are racists, I think it's also the case that Islamists - and there are millions of Islamists in Europe - rightly deserve to be viewed with destain in secular society. To be clear, I'm not talking about Muslims, I'm talking about those Muslims who chose to be Islamists.

Having said that, it's not exactly the case either that if the extreme right gets to implement their entire program, that the epitome of democratic society would be the outcome.

I agree, but how is that relevant to our discussion?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

IMO, Islam is a totalitarian ideology, with a religious facet. While I agree that there are racists, I think it's also the case that Islamists - and there are millions of Islamists in Europe - rightly deserve to be viewed with destain in secular society. To be clear, I'm not talking about Muslims, I'm talking about those Muslims who chose to be Islamists.

Great. It doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.

I agree, but how is that relevant to our discussion?

The discussion was about extreme right voters and what their program / voters are motivated by.
And the answer, in Belgium at least (and I would assume the same is true elsewhere in europe), is primarily racism.

To these people, it matters little of the Moroccon is a muslim or not. What matters is that it's a "brown" person "from north africa".
I won't put the words down here that they use to refer to people of such ethnicity, but it's pretty much the equivalent of the n-word.
And these words refer to the ethnicity and home country - not their religion, whatever it may be.

 

[icehorse]

Great. It doesn't have anything to do with what I was talking about.


The discussion was about extreme right voters and what their program / voters are motivated by.
And the answer, in Belgium at least (and I would assume the same is true elsewhere in europe), is primarily racism.

To these people, it matters little of the Moroccon is a muslim or not. What matters is that it's a "brown" person "from north africa".
I won't put the words down here that they use to refer to people of such ethnicity, but it's pretty much the equivalent of the n-word.
And these words refer to the ethnicity and home country - not their religion, whatever it may be.

I get that you think it's racism, and I'm sure sometimes it is. What I'm saying is that I think sometimes it's also a healthy dislike of Islamism.