Fascism - Why...

[exchemist]

That does not sound familiar to me concerning the USA, does it to you?

As an observer from across the pond, I certainly see more than traces of that in Trump and his supporters. The contempt for legal and constitutional process, the personality cult, the aggressive nativism and the use of violence to achieve goals are all warning signs.

 

[Secret Chief]

Call me cynical but I think most people in most places would be all for fascism as long as the fascists were on their side.

Although very few of the people benefiting from it would call it that.

What makes you think this?

 

[Kfox]

As an observer from across the pond, I certainly see more than traces of that in Trump and his supporters. The contempt for legal and constitutional process, the personality cult, the aggressive nativism and the use of violence to achieve goals are all warning signs.

Of all the Trump supporters I know of, none of them want a dictator running the country.

 

[Quagmire]

What makes you think this?

It's just human nature. People at their core are still tribal, and if people can get special treatment for their tribe they usually don't have any qualms about taking advantage of it.

Of course these days they'll try to dress it up as something else, "I'm entitled to more than my share because [. .]" because no matter how slanted things become in one group or another's favor, there's a strong impetus to try and present it as fair, just, and the ultimate fulfillment of whatever set of ideals or religious precepts that particular society is supposed to stand for.

 

[PureX]

... do so many Americans desperately want it?

("inspired" by the thread regarding Trump at the next election)

I think it's all about control. Most Americans are feeling that they've lost control of their government, of their economic circumstances, of their cultural values, and as a result, of their own destinies. And they are feeling angry and afraid as a result.

Fascism is ALL ABOUT taking and keeping control. And this makes it very attractive to many of those people. Unfortunately, fascism not about giving that control to you or I or to the American people. It's about keeping it in the hands of those at the top, by whatever ruthless means are necessary and available.

Unfortunately, when people are frightened and angry and feeling powerless, as so many are these days, they will reach for any promise of control they see, and the fascists know it. So they pretend they are seeking control "for the people" as they actually seek ever greater control only for themselves.

 

[InChrist]

... do so many Americans desperately want it?

("inspired" by the thread regarding Trump at the next election)

I don’t know, but fascist corporatism is certainly growing…


“Since my contempt for both of America’s major political parties is well known, some overseas readers have asked me to explain the Democrats’ mastery of Corporate Fascism.

Let’s start with the basics – long ago corporate fascists and other bloated rich pigs tended to gravitate toward the Republicans. However, the clueless Republican leadership understands nothing but money, while the Democrats understand power and its use.

Money follows power, so corporate fascists therefore naturally gravitated more and more to the Democrats, who not only get the corporate fascists what they want but manage to make them look civic-minded in the process. Conversely, if rich pigs don’t play ball with the Democrat fascists the Democrats use their media outlets to smear those rich pigs to the point of ruin.”

DEMOCRATS AND CORPORATE FASCISM

Since my contempt for both of America’s major political parties is well known, some overseas readers have asked me to explain the Democrats’ mastery of Corporate Fascism. Let’s st…

glitternight.com

——————-

If we define an American fascist as one who in case of conflict puts money and power ahead of human beings, then there are undoubtedly several million fascists in the United States.” ― Henry A. Wallace, 33rd Vice President of the United States

This is an indictment of every politician who has ever sold us out for the sake of money and power, it is a condemnation of every politician who has ever lied to us in order to advance their careers, and it is a denunciation of every political shill who has sacrificed our freedoms on the altar of Corporate America.

They’re all fascists.”

Fascism, American Style

<p>This is an indictment of every politician who has ever sold us out for the sake of money and power, it is a condemnation of every politician who has ever lied to us in order to advance their careers, and it is a denunciation of every political shill who has sacrificed our freedoms on the...

www.rutherford.org

 

[RestlessSoul]

Of all the Trump supporters I know of, none of them want a dictator running the country.

And yet they’re willing to vote for a bully and a braggart, who has repeatedly shown he has no respect for his country’s laws or institutions?

 

[exchemist]

Of all the Trump supporters I know of, none of them want a dictator running the country.

Then they are mugs, because that’s quite likely what they would get, in a suitably modern and disguised form. The first things I think he would do would be to pardon himself from all federal charges and then set about pursuing all his perceived enemies through the courts, both of which would make a mockery of the US legal system and destroy faith in it. The damage that would do to the fabric of society would be enormous. I think he would ignore the 2 term convention and set about getting his people to gerrymander state voting to make his 3rd re-election certain. In the meanwhile he would gently encourage the hounding and violent intimidation of groups and media outlets whose politics he and his supporters dislike.

The mere fact that so many of these people affect to believe the last election was “stolen” indicates they have given up on the democratic process, whether or not they have made the final logical leap to embracing dictatorship. The only saving grace is that Trump has no political vision or goal, other than personal aggrandisement.

Watching the antics of Trump, our own Bozo, Erdogan, Bolsonaro etc, I‘ve come to the conclusion that many people may not realise how much in democracies depends on decent behaviour and respect for the integrity of systems. When you get someone who doesn’t give a **** a lot of damage can be done that will take years to repair.

 

[Friend of Mara]

Of all the Trump supporters I know of, none of them want a dictator running the country.

Of all the Trump supporters I know I think all of them would if it meant owning the libs.

 

[Twilight Hue]

... do so many Americans desperately want it?

("inspired" by the thread regarding Trump at the next election)

I question why Americans are so desperate for socialism?

Democrats obviously love socialists in their party membership.

Not a peep of concern or opposition made about it.

Now how about actually proving people want fascism.

Are there Americans openly shouting "FASCISM WINS"? Are there any?

Let me know when you actually spot a Republican politician openly yelling , "FASCISM WINS" like Democrat politicians yelling, "SOCIALISM WINS"!

 

[Twilight Hue]

I doubt many Americans really want fascism, I think what we have is a bunch of Americans who have no clue what Fascism is really about, accusing other Americans whom they disagree with as being fascists.

I don't know any.

There are plenty of Americans out there however who openly love Socialism and Marxism now.

 

[Secret Chief]

I question why Americans are so desperate for socialism?

So go away and start your own thread on it. This thread is about fascism.

 

[YmirGF]

They probably think they're just Tea Party or MAGA.

Or members of the Democratic Party. (Fair, is fair.)

 

[YmirGF]

Call me cynical but I think most people in most places would be all for fascism as long as the fascists were on their side.

Although very few of the people benefiting from it would call it that.

This seems to be one of those discussion that is covered in several layers of confirmation bias. Everybody BUT me... Fascist has about as much sting as being called a racist has these days. We're almost at the point of, "Who isn't a fascist?"

 

[Twilight Hue]

So go away start your own thread on it. This thread is about fascism.

How Communist minded.

Don't like opposition obviously. Want to get rid of people with opposing views.

My statement is there are no Americans openly supporting fascism.

 

[Quagmire]

This seems to be one of those discussion that is covered in several layers of confirmation bias. Everybody BUT me... Fascist has about as much sting as being called a racist has these days. We're almost at the point of, "Who isn't a fascist?"

Almost?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Of all the Trump supporters I know of, none of them want a dictator running the country.

True. Make America Great Again doesn't parse with something like Make Trump Great Again.

 

[Stevicus]

Honestly I would like to know why a term that belongs to the political history of an European country is misused, today, in the United States to portray a Conservative politician who just wants to make America great again, by the means of protectionism, tax reductions and less war campaigns.

There are no fascist leaders in the US, and there will never be.

It might depend on how people perceive fascism. Of course, I'm aware that "fascism" is a term that originated in Italy and is probably more relevant to Italian politics than anything else. But the characteristics and traits of fascism might be identified in other countries, governments, and political parties or factions.

I think a key question would be is if one considers the pre-history and origins of the U.S. to be fascist, as well as the early history in the 18th and 19th centuries, prior to the Civil War. We did have some aspects that might be considered fascist. Suffrage was limited only to white males who owned property. There was slavery. The government was very expansionistic, believing that aggressive invasion and force were legitimate means of acquiring territory. It was white supremacist in every sense of the term.

But it was never a dictatorship, and it was far more decentralized with a separation of powers which would not have been conducive to anything resembling 20th century European fascism. That was a major issue - the strong resistance to having any kind of strong, central government - which would be essential for any would-be fascist leader to be able to consolidate power. By decentralizing power among the several states, that was seen as a preventative measure against all power being concentrated within a single ruler, party, or city.

That issue was partly settled as a result of the Civil War, at least in the sense that slavery had ended and US citizenship and voting rights were codified by the Reconstruction Amendments. But that aside, one might still see the same fascistic elements, but it's also when America's perception was more singular and unified. Before the Civil War, people would say "The United States are...," but after the Civil War, it was "The United States is..." Patriotism and national unity and reconciliation were emphasized, which also had nationalistic and xenophobic elements. And it was still very racist, both in terms of public policy and the overall culture. We were still expansionistic, and this also began a more aggressive period of imperialism in Latin America and the Pacific. With the large influx of immigrants to the U.S., there was also a push towards assimilation, which might be seen as having racist and/or fascistic motives. Women didn't get to vote until 1920 (although some states allowed women to vote sooner).

These and other aspects of that period might be considered to be characteristics in common with that of a fascist state, so I can see where someone might make a case for that. Even later on in our history, during the time of the Cold War, McCarthyism, J. Edgar Hoover, Nixon, Kissinger, Reagan, one might look back and wonder.

As I said, we've never had a bona fide "dictatorship," and power still remains somewhat decentralized, although perhaps not as much as some people would like.

I would say that a major problem - and why fascism can even be seen as a possibility in America - is because too much discretionary power was granted to the Chief Executive (and by extension, the Executive Branch), mainly because of the fears which came about during the Cold War and the various Red Scares. That's when the "Imperial Presidency" was born.

In other words, we gave too much power to the Presidency because we were afraid of an idea, and now it may come to bite us in the backside. In my view, the solution should be to reduce the powers granted to a single individual. There needs to be more checks and balances and a division of power in the Executive Branch. If we don't want a dictator, then we should not have a government where all power and the entire apparatus are under the stewardship of one person.

 

[Friend of Mara]

I question why Americans are so desperate for socialism?

Probably because capitalism has not worked well for most people under the age of 45. More than actual socialism I see a rise in syndicalism sentiments. I wouldn't argue for a perfect socialist economy but I for sure would argue for certain socialist policies that have worked elsewhere in the world. Some of the problems we face in America are not unique unsolvable problems. Though I think each policy could be argued individually since each has its own merit.

 

[Soandso]

Or members of the Democratic Party. (Fair, is fair.)

To be fair, fascism requires a charismatic dictator for a cult of personality to form around. No one on the left has that much charisma

On a serious note, who on the left that's a viable option for presidency has the highest approval rating, and is that number above 50%?