Fate of the Earth

[Truth in love]

If you are "clean-living", then you are not to blame.

I do sense a degree of skepticism in your posts as if "I don't care".
You should care. Almighty God has made us vicegerents of the earth.
I hope you are not in govt.

I’m not in government. I’m into talking care of the earth. I reject climate alarmism.

 

[Truth in love]

I don't think anyone is saying Grandma should freeze to avoid using fossil fuels. She would likely too anyway because folks who do freeze in the winter typically are poor, and ghere are politicians who oppose welfare programs.

Also, if it gets to the point where people are freezing in the winter from obsolete fossil fuel heating systems, it's likely from kicking the can down the road.

If we did not have very restrictive energy policies the cost of heating would be much more reasonable. Grandma would be able to afford heat, fuel and food with minimal trouble

 

[Truth in love]

Ad hominem. A person's behavior shouldn't figure into sound and valid arguments.

I’m sorry you actually believe that a person who peaches “the oceans will rise and we will die” and lives in the coast is not a red flag for fraud?

 

[muhammad_isa]

.. I reject climate alarmism.

I translate that as being skeptical..
I assume you don't live in California.

 

[Truth in love]

I translate that as being skeptical..
I assume you don't live in California.

Nope visited a few times.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So this is coming why would I worry about the little stuff?
Thoughts?

Keep worrying about the big stuff. Also keep anti-depressant medication on your bed table.

Nope visited a few times.

Don't go to California, also East-Coast). It is a Godless region. Baja California may break away anytime. Part of Azores may subside. The hanging glacier in Antarctica may break loose. Escape the rise of sea levels. Go to Israel (Acre). God's own country.

 

[Truth in love]

Keep worrying about the big stuff. Also keep anti-depressant medication on your bed table.Don't go to California. It is a Godless region.

Thanks, I actually do great without meds.

 

[metis]

We know climate change is happening, and we know that it can and is being more and more destructive and deadly, thus I guess the only serious question is whether money and self-centeredness is more important than human life and wellbeing? I do believe the Sermon On the Mount and being basically humanitarian answers that question-- at least for me.

 

[F1fan]

I saw yet another “climate change will ruin everything” post. I also just finished some Bible reading with the family

Isa 13:
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.



So this is coming why would I worry about the little stuff?


Thoughts?

The Bible is irrelevant. Let's pay attention to science and adjust our behavior as a species so the next generations aren't living in continual dire environmental catastrophies. Might be too late.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Bible is irrelevant. Let's pay attention to science and adjust our behavior as a species so the next generations aren't living in continual dire environmental catastrophies. Might be too late.

Umm .. the Bible isn't irrelevant.
Religion has the answers, but most people don't take it seriously enough.

It's the way that we've harnessed science & technology that has got us into this mess.

 

[F1fan]

Umm .. the Bible isn't irrelevant.
Religion has the answers, but most people don't take it seriously enough.

It has a whole diverse set of answers, none of which are consistent with facts and reality. That is how the human brain evolved: the need to believe in concets that make the mind feel meaning and significant in an indifferent universe.

As wee see with evolutionary psychology, not all humans need to believe is these popular social frameworks.

We also see over the millennia that the Bible is less and less relevant to what we understand of reality. It remians a sort of cult of mind and meaning, but that is at best a secondary issue as we face damage to the environment.

Just look at how many evangelicals want to destroy the planet because they believe it is part of their theology, the End Times. That is the harm religious belief can do to humanity. Look at 9-11, 21 years ago. That is religion at work against humanity. Sure there is good that comes from religion, but it is already good people. We don't see religion make bad people good. We see bad people use religion to be evil.

It's the way that we've harnessed science & technology that has got us into this mess.

And the religious mind has not helped humanity be more repsonsible or moral. With 85% of the world religious you can't blame non-believers for this mess.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I’m all for making wise decisions

Then perhaps you should be getting the science upon which you base your decisions from a reputable source. You seem to have a wrong idea of what the climate crisis is. It is not related to the stars going out, nor to the end of the earth. It's not even about the end of life on earth. Life survived the dinosaur extinguishing asteroid impact, but was devastated. Life will survive humanity's folly as well, but with unmeasurable suffering for both man and the beasts.

But regarding making wise decisions regarding climate change, unless he wants to be a climate activist, there isn't much for an individual to do but to reduce his own carbon footprint, and one doesn't have to care about anybody but himself to benefit from doing that. We went solar over a decade ago and haven't paid for electric power since, while reducing our propane consumption and outlay to 1/4 of what it had been.

The near future seems pretty predictable. Man has already failed to prevent catastrophe. We've passed a tipping point. Climate change is here. I saw a weather report last week that had the western United States suffering from wildfires in the north, extreme heat in the south, drought in both, a giant dust storm in Arizona, and flooding all over the eastern US, all at the same time:

Is this what you mean by climate alarmism - concern about this trend? The month before, Missouri experienced two (formerly) 1000-year floods in the same week. These floods are now not even 50-year floods.

I didn't include the tornado or hurricane maps, because they weren't in the news that day. The gulf coast is already fairly uninhabitable because of wind and water. What is the life expectancy of a home on the gulf or the Atlantic seaboard today? A 50-50 chance of severe damage or destruction in the next decade?

And why is this important to know? Even if the fate of all of those people and animals is of no interest to you, once again, if you are a homeowner, you have a selfish motive to care. Eventually, the entire nation will recognize that certain placed are no longer habitable. I saw a man on the news whose California home burned down in 2018. Not recognizing that where he lived was going to continue burning, he rebuilt. That home burned down in 2021. Now, he's moving out of northern California rather than building a third time. And even if he did, eventually, insurers will refuse to insure homes in such areas against fire, and people would realize that they don't want to buy his house at any price near what a home there would sell for there five years ago.

Have you heard of climate refugees? These are people that have been forced to relocate due to climatological concerns. It used to be mostly a third-world problem, but it is becoming an American problem now as well. The US was fifth in the world for climate refugees in 2019. India, the Philippines, Bangladesh, and China all had 4-5 times as many such refugees, but America was near a million:

Climate refugees – the world’s forgotten victims - Climate Champions (unfccc.int)

Along with political instability, climatological disasters are powering much of the immigration of Hispanic people at the southern US border, most coming from Central America. Some of these people are both political and climate refugees.

U.S.-Mexico border: Climate change factor behind increased migration (cnbc.com)

Back to the US, here's an island in Louisiana that has gone from 35 sq mi to 1 sq mi due to rising sea levels and coastal erosion. These people are already moving and have lost their homes and land:

And another disappearing island, this time in Virginia, Tangier Island, also from erosion and sea level rising, now 1/3 of its former size, and expected to be uninhabitable in 30 years. What do you suppose that these folks can get for their homes today? In fifteen years?:

And yes, people will freeze to death this winter just as many were killed by heat this summer, more next year than this, and even more the year after that. And birds will continue dying in flight from heat. This is America now:

Extreme heat triggers mass die-offs and stress for wildlife in the West (nationalgeographic.com)

I saw an article a few months back referencing this trend, and where people should consider moving to in the States if they live in any of the dangerous heat or flooding regions indicated in the maps above. That article included Buffalo, NY, as among the best places to live in the US to avert climate disaster. Seriously. Wasn't that considered one of the worst places to live for climate not too long ago? Their blizzards are legendary.

Here are two more such articles. The first is from a site with homeowner's insurance in its URL, the second form one that makes home loans. I wonder what they're thinking about with articles like these. Notice also the cities they name. The second source has Sacramento, CA as most desirable. My sister lives close to there. They roasted this summer. That article also has Tuscon, AZ sixth. My daughter is in Phoenix. They roasted this summer as well:

The Best & Worst Cities for Climate Change in 2022 - Policygenius
The 10 Best Places To Live For Climate Change | Quicken Loans

I guess that this post makes me a climate alarmist in your eyes. Feel free to disregard it all. If you're right, your home will likely appreciate over the next decade or two, and getting (and avoiding) water will never be a problem for your family.

 

[Muffled]

I saw yet another “climate change will ruin everything” post. I also just finished some Bible reading with the family

Isa 13:
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.



So this is coming why would I worry about the little stuff?


Thoughts?

I believe the chances are good we will be raptured before the End of the World (as we know it). The Bible teaches us not to worry. Everything God gives us is good.

 

[Muffled]

i agree the end will come but i also think its wise to minimize and or eliminate how we effect climate. you wouldnt pour gasoline in your resevoir would you? its kinda like that.

I believe in minimizing pollution but that is not going to effect climate change.

 

[Wildswanderer]

The problem is that the proposed solutions are garbage. Solutions such as eating bugs instead of meat, driving electric cars when we can't afford it, and don't have the power grid to support it. Wind turbines which are terribly inefficient and actually bad for the environment, and so on. Actually drilling for oil and using nuclear power makes more sense.

 

[Muffled]

The Earth, in many passages, can mean people as in Genesis 11:1.
Certainly, the planet is not going anywhere! (Ecclesiastes 1:4)
Otherwise, Jesus’ words at Matthew 5:5 would mean nothing…“the meek” could not “inherit the Earth.”

Certain people will be gotten rid of, though. Psalms 37 9-11,29

I believe the end has three distinct things: The rocks (stars) that fall from the skies and strike earth and most likely the largest causing a conflagration over all the earth and a gigantic earthquake that can move the tectonic plates changing what is under the ocean and what is above it. A large impact as that can also alter the declination, rotation and annual path of the earth. That would cause the ice caps to be in different places. I believe the earth has already moved a little which is why we have climate change.

 

[Jimmy]

I believe in minimizing pollution but that is not going to effect climate change.

hopefully things will work out

 

[metis]

Why are so many self-proclaim "conservatives" being so willing to ignore reality and let myriads of people suffer and die even though they may claim to be "Christian"? According to very recent studies, global warming is accelerating at a faster rate that even projected only a few years ago.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Why are so many self-proclaim "conservatives" being so willing to ignore reality and let myriads of people suffer and die even though they may claim to be "Christian"? According to very recent studies, global warming is accelerating at a faster rate that even projected only a few years ago.

That's what conservative Christians are taught and believe. Here are some things said by conservative Christians in American government about the threat of climate change, all more than ten years old now:

• "We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand" - James Watt, Secretary of the Interior under Reagan (note his position, guardian of the environment)

• "My point is, God's still up there. The arrogance of people to think that we, human beings, would be able to change what He is doing in the climate is to me outrageous." - Sen. Inhofe, R-Okla

• "The Earth will end only when God declares it's time to be over. Man will not destroy this Earth. This Earth will not be destroyed by a flood. I do believe God's word is infallible, unchanging, perfect." - Rep John Shimkus, R-Ill

So far on this thread, we have one believer who calls climate disaster small stuff, and wonders why he should care, since his Bible tells him that the stars will go out some day anyway, and equates mitigating efforts against climate disaster to painting a house scheduled for demolition next week.

Another thinks that the Bible has the answers and that the problem is with science and technology rather than industry and government.

Another, whose focus appears to be on the end of the world, reminds us that the Bible says to not worry, everything God does is good - somewhat like the politicians quoted above.

Another rejects mitigation efforts and recommends drilling for more oil.

 

[muhammad_isa]

We also see over the millennia that the Bible is less and less relevant to what we understand of reality..

On the contrary..
It is VERY relevant, but you perceive reality as something transient,
whereas I do not.

Just look at how many evangelicals want to destroy the planet because they believe it is part of their theology, the End Times.

That is absurd.
The JW's will explain to you that "the end times" are due to our turning away from God .. not knowledgeble religious people purposely causing distress to others.

You confuse religion with politics. Forget 'Trump' .. he only exists to mislead.