Favourite Atheist arguments

[TagliatelliMonster]

You don’t have to, but I can.

Sure, but that is once again not a proper response to the post you are quoting.

I didn't ask you if you can hold beliefs that aren't sufficiently supported to rationally warrant belief.
Instead, I asked how it could ever be "stupid" to NOT believe those things that aren't sufficiently supported to warrant belief.

The correct answer to that question is: "it's never stupid to not believe things that aren't sufficiently supported".

 

[SkepticThinker]

1


Yes it s a tv show displaying videos of paranormal phenomina around the world.

*in slow mentally handicapped speech so more can understand*

The show doesnt make the videos it onlt collects them. Like "Americas Funniest Home videos". The show only displays the footage its gathered from many sources around the world it doesn't actually make the footage...

So several people saying its a" TV Show" holds no merit to discredit anything. To discredit you have to take it on a video by video basis to judge the video and sources accordingly.

This is the stupidity of commenting without knowing what your talking about. I repeat it is not a ghost hunter show. it only displays footage collected from around the world and has the resources to collect more than any of you could ever find. They make a profit because they are the only ones doing it to this scale and airing it to the public.

Thats why its called paranormal caught on camera. People, businesses and street cameras around the world caught these videos

So if your going to discredit the show you need to actually see all the videos as they are all from different sources.

Duuuuh
Duuuhhhhh do you understand?

Also paranormal essentially means not normal..thats all that word means

Try again smartass


Also I said I havent posted any evidence I didnt post any videos ment to be the evidence.

Also lastly if videos arent evidence of paranormal that what would be considered evidence? ...Exactly, its dismissal of any evidence to protect your personal reality. This is why you and many others comment without even looking at the evidence. Its purely dismissal because if you did see irrifutable evidence, especially of the spiritual, you wouldnt know what to do or think.

So its better to dismiss without even ooking and stay inside your bubble. Thats completely fine as, you arent the type that can hold a conversation in this subject, you and several others. Im here to actually talk about it with who wants to honestly look at facts not just gloat a superficial opinion with their close minded dismissing narrative which brings them comfort.

Your rude and demeaning comments toward the mentally handicapped aside, I'll tell you what will convince me ...
When these people publish the findings of their controlled studies in science journals and have them peer reviewed and successfully repeated by other scientists, then I would be convinced that you've got something here.

It's clear that you haven't really read my posts, but as I've stated several times, I used to be heavily into this ghost stuff when I was younger. But at some point I realized that the evidence just wasn't there and that what I thought was evidence of ghosts was really just my own biased interpretation of events, based on what I wanted to see. I really, really wanted ghosts to be real.

On a side (but related) note, my grandmother and her friends made sort of a pact together that if and when they all died, and if it was at all possible, that they would come back to visit or "haunt" the other friends, so that they would know ghosts were real. My grandmother said she never saw any of her friends come back in any way she could recognize. She and I also made the same agreement. Well, she died 10 years ago last month, and I have yet to receive a visit from her. Should I conclude that ghosts don't exist from this? What do you think?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So far Im starting to see what kind of people Aethiests are (head in sand), and I might not find one to carry a decent informed conversation.

I do have a point to make, which is like step 5. I cant even get past step 1 because apparently aetheiests are know-it-alls who are too proud to actually look but it doesnt stop them from commenting. lol

1 month down I'll give it 11 more months for someone to actually look at the evidence and not just flaunt their dismissive bias.

"Ive never seen evidence of spirits".. thats because you have never looked at it.


Video, is not evidence is quite frankly the stupidest thing one could say. Wether its fake or real its evidence one way or another..

Please, if you dont think video evidence is evidence, steal something and when they catch you on camera tell the court, " video is not evidence. "

the people who say that are talking out of their ***


You can't just say, evidence is not evidence. Sorry, that doesnt count

*as an athiest*
Im just going to discredit all videos from around the world as not evidence without even looking at them cause ya know, Im atheist. Apparently we dont use facts to discredit things we just dont believe and thats that.

Nasa, astronimers, archeologists, alchemists, nature studies, pretty much all of science uses video. Whats mounted to space expiditions? A camera.

Saying video is not evidence is quite literally the dumbest thing one could say in this conversation

Atheism doesn't have much to do with this at all.
Atheism is simply the lack of belief in god(s). Atheists can believe in (or not believe in) anything else in the world. They can believe in ghosts. They can believe in aliens from other planets. Anything.
The only thing they don't believe in are gods.
Some atheists are more skeptical than others about claims, some are less skeptical than others.
We're not a homogenous group except on the rejection of god claims.

Let's face facts here, we're not looking at clear-cut videos of some guy murdering another guy or robbing a bank or something, where it's obvious what is going on. We're looking at videos of doors opening and closing and lights floating around and stuff, that is not clear cut and on top of that, you want to attribute the cause of these events to entities that haven't been shown to exist in the first place. I guess the point of my snerfleberg explanation was lost on you.

 

[Skeezy]

No. It's a TV show claiming to show real videos. Furthermore, the videos they show, assuming they are real, are unexplained and then merely asserted to be "paranormal phenomena" eventhough they are unexplained.

In logic land, we call that an argument from ignorance.



No, you are the one who's mentally handicapped.

So is throwing insults around the best you can do when faced with critical views of your nonsense?




The show is an edited montage. Regardless where the raw material comes from.
Also, you don't know this. You just assume it is all legit.

TV Shows rarely are legit. Especially "reality shows", ironically....




It does. TV Shows aren't evidence. Not even when it's a serious documentary by serious high quality reporters.

Case in point, a while ago, there was a documentary on belgian national TV. The docu was about extreme right groups and the nasty stuff they are into on private facebook groups. Some politicians were involved. A team of reporters went undercover and exposed it all in said documentary.

Do you think these people were convicted based on said documentary? NO.
Instead, authorities assembled an additional team of researchers who did their own investigation. It eventually went to court (still in progress, actually). The evidence these people present in court does NOT come from the documentary. It comes from their own investigation.

Because TV shows aren't evidence. Not even when it concerns non-commercial serious documentaries which were the result of very serious, very careful research.


And here you are telling us that we should believe the paranormal exists, because there are a couple of commercial "reality tv" shows that claim to show such events on blurry video's, without any additional investigation whatsoever? We should just take their word for it?

If we don't even take their word for it when it concerns serious, high quality, non commercial, undercover research... why on earth would we do it with a show like this one???




No. To discredit it, all we have to do is point out, firstly, the gigantic argument from ignorance involved and, secondly, point out that it's just a bunch of claims in a show which's only reason to exist is making money.

Come back when you have some real, verifiable, evidence.
At this point, you have nothing that warrants belief.



You don't seem to understand.
If these people expose these video's as merely "unexplained" or fraudulent - then they don't have a show.




No.
The fact that it is a commercial show, is enough to disregard any extra-ordinary claims it makes, especially when they are no more then based in arguments from ignorance.

Find me a single case that was properly investigated in non-commercial setting, where the motivation is only to uncover the truth instead of putting on a good show that brings in advertising money.




You mad? You mad....
Also: reported.

Keep your cool, boy.



The video's aren't evidence in this case. The video's are the things that require an explanation.
You see the video and you claim it is paranormal activity. When we ask for evidence for your conclusion, your answer can't be "the video".

That's like saying that the bible is evidence of the bible. It's called circular reasoning.



I don't know. I'm not the one claiming the "paranormal" exists.
First one would have to define what "the paranormal" is in falsifiable ways. Only then we can decide what would and would not constitute evidence, both for AND against the proposition.



No. This is a form of projection. You have an a priori belief that the paranormal exists. So any unexplained thing that can be claimed to be "paranormal", you'll call it paranormal.
So instead of it being a case of me "dismissing any evidence" a priori, it's rather a case of you accepting anything you think validates your a priori beliefs. Confirmation bias, is what we call that.

The fact is that you haven't even shared a proper falsifiable definition of what the "paranormal" is, so we in fact we can't even begin to discuss what would and would not be proper evidence (both for and against it).




1. the video's aren't evidence

2. I've seen that show, and others like it, more then enough to know that there's nothing there of any value. Entertaining though. At times.



You know nothing about me.
I have no emotional attachment to beliefs.
I'm more then happy to change my beliefs when evidence demands me to.
In fact, I'm compelled to do so.



Then come with verifiable facts, instead of edited TV shows who's only reason to exist is sell ad space and make money.

You do realize these videos would exists with or without the show collecting them and Giving them to you?

its not a "reality tv show". The footage would exist with or without the show.

So for you to know what it is.. you need to actually look at what the heck your talking about instead of assuming you know what the heck your talking about

I doubt the native people who were filiming themselves hunting frogs work for discovery channel. These videos come from all over the world dude. The only thing the show does is present them in dramatic fashion. It doesnt claim they are real it just shows them to you for you to decide for yourself.

Yes all Ghost hunting shows are reality tv and scriipted. Likke I said, thats not what this is. If you actually took the time to look at it you would know that instead you talking from a stance of assumption or from an assumption someone else made. While I know you have never seen the show as almost everything you say is incorrect.

Many of the videos existed before the show was ever created. Now are you going to talk from a stance of intelligence or are you going to keep wrongfully assuming ?

 

[Skeezy]

Your rude and demeaning comments toward the mentally handicapped aside, I'll tell you what will convince me ...
When these people publish the findings of their controlled studies in science journals and have them peer reviewed and successfully repeated by other scientists, then I would be convinced that you've got something here.

It's clear that you haven't really read my posts, but as I've stated several times, I used to be heavily into this ghost stuff when I was younger. But at some point I realized that the evidence just wasn't there and that what I thought was evidence of ghosts was really just my own biased interpretation of events, based on what I wanted to see. I really, really wanted ghosts to be real.

On a side (but related) note, my grandmother and her friends made sort of a pact together that if and when they all died, and if it was at all possible, that they would come back to visit or "haunt" the other friends, so that they would know ghosts were real. My grandmother said she never saw any of her friends come back in any way she could recognize. She and I also made the same agreement. Well, she died 10 years ago last month, and I have yet to receive a visit from her. Should I conclude that ghosts don't exist from this? What do you think?

I see the simple concept of collecting the existing videos of paranormal phenomena captured by unrelated sources and displaying them is beyond your understanding

by not watching the show or seeing what it is, you keep adding things that aren't there and only in your head. Its a very simple concept. No scripts just collected captured footage, they dont make any claims they just show it to you and you decide for yourself. Thats the entire premise of the show.

Now go ahead, keep talkng without actually knowing what your talking about.

The videos are from india, uk, america, brazil, australia, remote locations, literally footage captured by the people themselves.... thats why i said to even discredit videos of paranormal stuff you need to see it as this is the largest collection ever amassed so you can actually see the bulk. Or you can just keep assuming and making general statments based on.....
Nothing, cause you havent done step 1 and seen majority of the videos presented by the world to even make a knowledgable judgement.

 

[Skeezy]

@SkepticThinker
So I've been arguing not debating, with you personally for two+ weeks over something that you haven't even looked at to see what it is yet.

 

[Skeezy]

Ok I'm realizing no one is no one is going to actually go look at the evidence . So I'm going to skip steps 1-4 and get straight to my point. Step 5

Its mostly white people that proudly claim the title of athiest publicly.

Speaking exclusively from an American Religious standpoint.

Not believing in God actually fits your position religiously. Christianity has been paganized for quite some times and without seeking god and studying scripture most are just going with the flow.

If you studied the bible or one of its related books, you'd know that God does not like white people (edomites) and the Messages of the book is not ment for you. This is why most dont understand the book, your not supposed to.

Fake christian pagan churches tesch that god loves everyone and you just need baptism and to repent..... that is false thats not what the book says. These pagan churches trick people who wantto be right with God into doing the wrong things. Most never study the book/seek God to figure that out.

The past, gods way for you to live and the future are in the book. In revlations you will find that Gods Chosen Tribe is the black/brown people in America. Revelations is largely about god de- throning whites and freeing his people. The first become last and the last become first. Edomites are promised the sword and to be thrown in the fire.

Gods people were put back into slavery for not following his statutes. Much of revelation is accurate to the way our world is today.


In short many white people among all people being aethist, is how its supposed to be. Only less than 1/3 of all even make it to heaven. To actually get to heaven white people would have to denounce pretty much everything they've done, repent for their sins and put black people first which we all know, will never happen.

In short God doesnt rock with white people anyway. He cursed you so all would be able to identify you. The world belongs to Lucifer (because Adam gave it to him in Genisis).

If a white person did actually repent and get to heaven you'd be made a slave in heaven (yes this is in the bible). Ugly but fitting.

Also much of what is publicly thought about heaven/hell is wrong. When you die you go to shihol? Sheol? . The book says no one has gone to heaven and all are awaiting judgement.


The point is, your not supposed to believe anyway. Even if you did, it wouldn't matter because you are responsible for correcting the sins of your father, and as a population of people they never will.

Scriptures says only a select few will know when the end comes but there will be many signs. Right now a time of confusion is the first sign as it is very visible in the world. Though Yahuah does not work on our time.


To give an example of just how paganized reality is. Yahuah is gods name. The term God is closer to lucifers name Goddryel. This is why most who know the truth refer to him as "The Most High" instead of using the term God. The Devil has been working hard to trick people.

The only reasob I even mentioned the show or videos of paranormal is to show you that your position may bot be accurate as there is possibility that spirits are real and if spirits are real then it is possible that the holy spirit is real.

Thats pretty much why... tbh its probably best to just do your thing the way you want with the time you have anyway

 

[McBell]

Ok I'm realizing no one is no one is going to actually go look at the evidence . So I'm going to skip steps 1-4 and get straight to my point. Step 5

Its mostly white people that proudly claim the title of athiest publicly.

Speaking exclusively from an American Religious standpoint.

Not believing in God actually fits your position religiously. Christianity has been paganized for quite some times and without seeking god and studying scripture most are just going with the flow.

If you studied the bible or one of its related books, you'd know that God does not like white people (edomites) and the Messages of the book is not ment for you. This is why most dont understand the book, your not supposed to.

Fake christian pagan churches tesch that god loves everyone and you just need baptism and to repent..... that is false thats not what the book says. These pagan churches trick people who wantto be right with God into doing the wrong things. Most never study the book/seek God to figure that out.

The past, gods way for you to live and the future are in the book. In revlations you will find that Gods Chosen Tribe is the black/brown people in America. Revelations is largely about god de- throning whites and freeing his people. The first become last and the last become first. Edomites are promised the sword and to be thrown in the fire.

Gods people were put back into slavery for not following his statutes. Much of revelation is accurate to the way our world is today.


In short many white people among all people being aethist, is how its supposed to be. Only less than 1/3 of all even make it to heaven. To actually get to heaven white people would have to denounce pretty much everything they've done, repent for their sins and put black people first which we all know, will never happen.

In short God doesnt rock with you anyway.

If a white person did actually repent and get to heaven you'd be made a slave in heaven (yes this is in the bible). Ugly but fitting.

Also much of what is publicly thought about heaven/hell is wrong. When you die you go to shihol? Sheol? . The book says no one has gone to heaven and all are awaiting judgement.


The point is, your not supposed to believe anyway. Even if you did, it wouldn't matter because you are responsible for correcting the sins of your father, and as a population of people they never will.

I am curious which tv show you used as your source for this....

 

[MonkeyFire]

Sure, but that is once again not a proper response to the post you are quoting.

I didn't ask you if you can hold beliefs that aren't sufficiently supported to rationally warrant belief.
Instead, I asked how it could ever be "stupid" to NOT believe those things that aren't sufficiently supported to warrant belief.

The correct answer to that question is: "it's never stupid to not believe things that aren't sufficiently supported".

Instead of evidence we have omniscience, faith can allude science.

 

[Skeezy]

I am curious which tv show you used as your source for this....

No outside source, merely life observation of those who brandish that they are atheist

Most other people aceoss the world are massively rooted in spirituality. Not to say there arent people of color who are atheist its just if you get a large group of athiests together they'd mostly be white people along with pagan, wiccan, lucifarian, etc. Shii... even feminism is One of the top 3 Satanic principles

Even with Atheists not believing in a god. They are surrounded by spiritual movements of all kinds the way you live your life falls into a category of spirituality regardless if you believe or not. It just makes you not privy to whats actually going on aroud you because your sight and thoughts are limited to be of the world. Spiritual moves arent something an atheist would be able to spot or know about.

 

[Nakosis]

That I don't have to believe in a god/gods to have a life.

I was thinking similar, a belief in God is not necessary for anything.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Instead of evidence we have omniscience, faith can allude science.

No you are not "omniscient" and faith isn't a pathway to truth.
There is literally nothing that you could not believe on faith.
Faith is the excuse people give when they want to believe something for which there no evidence, or only bad evidence, exists.

 

[McBell]

No outside source, merely life observation of those who brandish that they are atheist

Most other people aceoss the world are massively rooted in spirituality. Not to say there arent people of color who are atheist its just if you get a large group of athiests together they'd mostly be white people along with pagan, wiccan, lucifarian, etc. Shii... even feminism is One of the top 3 Satanic principles

Even with Atheists not believing in a god. They are surrounded by spiritual movements of all kinds the way you live your life falls into a category of spirituality regardless if you believe or not. It just makes you not privy to whats actually going on aroud you because your sight and thoughts are limited to be of the world. Spiritual moves arent something an atheist would be able to spot or know about.

Good thing I already boarded my pontoon....

 

[McBell]

I was thinking similar, a belief in God is not necessary for anything.

For a lot of people, I agree.
However there are those who without a god to fear and beg rewards from.....

 

[MonkeyFire]

No you are not "omniscient" and faith isn't a pathway to truth.
There is literally nothing that you could not believe on faith.
Faith is the excuse people give when they want to believe something for which there no evidence, or only bad evidence, exists.

However, if I naturally have faith then indeed only the things I desire will be true. Faith is belief. The first amendment protects religion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

However, if I naturally have faith then indeed only the things I desire will be true.

That doesn't make any sense.
Things don't become true simply because you desire them to be true.

Faith is belief. The first amendment protects religion.

This isn't about politics, but about reason.
Yes, you have the right to hold unreasonable beliefs.
That is not the issue here.

 

[Skeezy]

However, if I naturally have faith then indeed only the things I desire will be true. Faith is belief. The first amendment protects religion.

"Only the things I desire will be true?"

What do you mean?

Im not sure thats how a lot of religions work lol most take trials, self sacrifice and conformity. A couple polytheist religions have a few spirits that grant wishes

 

[SkepticThinker]

I see the simple concept of collecting the existing videos of paranormal phenomena captured by unrelated sources and displaying them is beyond your understanding

by not watching the show or seeing what it is, you keep adding things that aren't there and only in your head. Its a very simple concept. No scripts just collected captured footage, they dont make any claims they just show it to you and you decide for yourself. Thats the entire premise of the show.

Now go ahead, keep talkng without actually knowing what your talking about.

The videos are from india, uk, america, brazil, australia, remote locations, literally footage captured by the people themselves.... thats why i said to even discredit videos of paranormal stuff you need to see it as this is the largest collection ever amassed so you can actually see the bulk. Or you can just keep assuming and making general statments based on.....
Nothing, cause you havent done step 1 and seen majority of the videos presented by the world to even make a knowledgable judgement.

This is like the fifth time I've told you that I've seen the show before and also that I used to be heavily into ghost stuff.
So now I'm convinced that you're not even reading through my posts. This post you've written here doesn't even address my last comments.


We don't demonstrate the veracity of scientific claims by collecting videos from TV shows that have collected videos from somewhere else.
That's the bottom line here. That is just one of the reasons I have not been convinced of your claims.
You still haven't even defined and explained what a "ghost" even is, and what a "poltergeist" even is. You're not going to get anywhere without taking that basic first step.
It's kinda hard to demonstrate the existence of a thing you haven't defined.


Also, I'm wondering what this has to do with atheism and god(s). Ghosts could exist without any gods existing, and vice versa.

 

[SkepticThinker]

No outside source, merely life observation of those who brandish that they are atheist

Most other people aceoss the world are massively rooted in spirituality. Not to say there arent people of color who are atheist its just if you get a large group of athiests together they'd mostly be white people along with pagan, wiccan, lucifarian, etc. Shii... even feminism is One of the top 3 Satanic principles

Feminism is a Satanic principle?
Sorry, what??

Even with Atheists not believing in a god. They are surrounded by spiritual movements of all kinds the way you live your life falls into a category of spirituality regardless if you believe or not. It just makes you not privy to whats actually going on aroud you because your sight and thoughts are limited to be of the world. Spiritual moves arent something an atheist would be able to spot or know about.

I'm surrounded by spiritual movements of people who can't even demonstrate the veracity of their claims but somehow claim they know more than others.
That's not how we come to know things about the world we live in.

 

[Skeezy]

This is like the fifth time I've told you that I've seen the show before and also that I used to be heavily into ghost stuff.
So now I'm convinced that you're not even reading through my posts. This post you've written here doesn't even address my last comments.


We don't demonstrate the veracity of scientific claims by collecting videos from TV shows that have collected videos from somewhere else.
That's the bottom line here. That is just one of the reasons I have not been convinced of your claims.
You still haven't even defined and explained what a "ghost" even is, and what a "poltergeist" even is. You're not going to get anywhere without taking that basic first step.
It's kinda hard to demonstrate the existence of a thing you haven't defined.


Also, I'm wondering what this has to do with atheism and god(s). Ghosts could exist without any gods existing, and vice versa.

There are almost to many basics to explain here.

I say you havent seen the show because you've made so many inncorrect statements about the show and its format.

I know you'v seen a ghost show but nothing about what you said says you've actually seen this show. Your comments about Screenplay etc Point to that your talking about a ghost hunter reality tv show which is not what this show is... And this is the last time I'm going to humor you about a show you havent watched.

If you saw the show you would know these are amature civilian and 24/7 recording stationary camera videos there are no screenplays involved. Nothing about how you tear down the show, says that you've actually seen the show. It shows that you haven't seen the show.

So IF you saw it why do you not know what the show is like?


Also I never said ghosts I said spirits and Residual energies, since your already into these things why are you asking me to explain them to you?

Poltergiest is an evil spirit that exists in what can best be described as a parallel dimension. These things are capable of gathering energy over time from our dimension and become able to effect it even without gathering energy first. There are several homemade videos of people who live with poltergiests in their home on the show.

Like i said you havent seen the show.


Also ghosts are spirits or residual energy. Since many religions define what a spirit is especially holy spirits and demons etc.

In short no you cannot haves ghost without a god. Spirits themselves are god or have the capability to become gods. For example demons can be considered gods and are considered gods by the people who worship them.

So no you cannot have spirits without gods

Even Yahuah never denies the existence of other gods. He flat out says there are other gods but he is the god of creation and the only who will save your soul.

Your understanding of spirits would be better if you studied religions