FBI Finds Jan 6th not Planned or Coordinated By Trump or Far-Right Groups

[Bodie]

This isn't exactly current but we still see the false narratives in media that Trump and far right groups coordinated or planned Jan 6th, but it's still a popular lie that is still parroted even though the FBI found little evidence of it.

So the question is:
Why does some media outlets and those who parrot the disinformation about Jan 6th keep at it? It seems holding on to a lie is more comfortable than facing the findings of one of the largest law enforcement entities in the U.S. even when that lie serves to cause division and undermines democracy.

"WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.
"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.""
source: Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources | Reuters

 

[Lyndon]

nonsense

 

[Bodie]

nonsense

So the F.B.I. is nonsense and Reuters lies?

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't believe I've seen anyone claim that Trump himself actually planned and coordinated the Jan 6 attempted insurrection.

However, as the trials of the militia members begin you will see evidence that those people did indeed preplan and conspire to storm the Capitol. In fact, they did so pretty openly on right-wing websites like Parler.

 

[Kooky]

From the article

FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said.

Also:

More than 170 people have been charged so far with assaulting or impeding a police officer, according to the Justice Department. That carries a maximum sentence of 20 years.

But one source said there has been little, if any, recent discussion by senior Justice Department officials of filing charges such as "seditious conspiracy" to accuse defendants of trying to overthrow the government. They have also opted not to bring racketeering charges, often used against organized criminal gangs.


So it's not that there's definite proof of this not happening, but prosecutors choosing not to press these charges, and instead opting for a much safer bet in "impeding a police officer".

Conspiracy charges that have been filed allege that defendants discussed their plans in the weeks before the attack and worked together on the day itself. But prosecutors have not alleged that this activity was part of a broader plot.

So what happened is that they know for a fact that people organized beforehand with the aim of storming the Capitol, but choose not to press conspiracy charges because they do not believe they can prove the existence of direct central orders.

Hardly an exoneration of Trump.

 

[Brickjectivity]

This isn't exactly current but we still see the false narratives in media that Trump and far right groups coordinated or planned Jan 6th, but it's still a popular lie that is still parroted even though the FBI found little evidence of it.

He instigated it with his smack talk.

It needed investigating.

The result is that now we see something truly awful. He was able to instigate an insurrection without even lifting a finger, without planning, just using subtle suggestions. Negligence and irresponsible language by him caused this.

 

[Laika]

Why does some media outlets and those who parrot the disinformation about Jan 6th keep at it?

Trump's involvement (or the involvement of people around him) is a distinct possibility with far-reaching implications for the future of American Democracy which is why it's worth the media drawing attention to it. They are admittedly making huge amounts of money in the process of course, so they have a clear selfish reason for reporting on it too.

But it is like the issues surrounding Russian electoral interference where Trump may have benefited but there is no "smoking gun" evidence of co-ordination and planning that could actually hold up in court to make him legally responsible and guilty of a crime. He's still presumed innocent like everyone else, and a court actually has to prove the charge and make it stick for him to go to jail or face any punishment.

The investigation is on going, so "maybe" something will turn up and Trump will be in court with the world's media watching. But Trump was present in Washington that day, potentially incited the crowds, may have delayed action in response to the attack with local police forces, and would have benefited had the insurrection had it resulted in the death of several key members in the line of succession such as Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.

But there is a difference between how this plays out in the press and how it would play out in a courtroom where there will be rules on what kind of evidence is admissible and excludes heresay, speculation and rumour that might make a great press piece.

[edit:] Here's a breakdown of some of the events on that day.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This isn't exactly current but we still see the false narratives in media that Trump and far right groups coordinated or planned Jan 6th, but it's still a popular lie that is still parroted even though the FBI found little evidence of it.

So the question is:
Why does some media outlets and those who parrot the disinformation about Jan 6th keep at it? It seems holding on to a lie is more comfortable than facing the findings of one of the largest law enforcement entities in the U.S. even when that lie serves to cause division and undermines democracy.

"WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.
"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.""
source: Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources | Reuters

Of course. The left never accepts the facts. Just their agenda and propaganda.

 

[Laika]

Of course. The left never accepts the facts. Just their agenda and propaganda.

*Evil leftist laughter*

 

[Bodie]

He instigated it with his smack talk.
It needed investigating.
The result is that now we see something truly awful. He was able to instigate an insurrection without even lifting a finger, without planning, just using subtle suggestions. Negligence and irresponsible language by him caused this.

Trump's involvement (or the involvement of people around him) is a distinct possibility with far-reaching implications for the future of American Democracy which is why it's worth the media drawing attention to it. They are admittedly making huge amounts of money in the process of course, so they have a clear selfish reason for reporting on it too.

But it is like the issues surrounding Russian electoral interference where Trump may have benefited but there is no "smoking gun" evidence of co-ordination and planning that could actually hold up in court to make him legally responsible and guilty of a crime. He's still presumed innocent like everyone else, and a court actually has to prove the charge and make it stick for him to go to jail or face any punishment.

The investigation is on going, so "maybe" something will turn up and Trump will be in court with the world's media watching. But Trump was present in Washington that day, potentially incited the crowds, may have delayed action in response to the attack with local police forces, and would have benefited had the insurrection had it resulted in the death of several key members in the line of succession such as Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi.

But there is a difference between how this plays out in the press and how it would play out in a courtroom where there will be rules on what kind of evidence is admissible and excludes heresay, speculation and rumour that might make a great press piece.

[edit:] Here's a breakdown of some of the events on that day.

Please forward any questions and concerns to the F.B.I. regarding their findings and tell them where they are wrong in their assessment, who knows? you may just crack the case WIDE OPEN!

F.B.I. tipline:
Submit a Tip — FBI

 

[Bodie]

Of course the obligatory MP clip

 

[Laika]

Please forward any questions and concerns to the F.B.I. regarding their findings and tell them where they are wrong in their assessment, who knows? you may just crack the case WIDE OPEN!

F.B.I. tipline:
Submit a Tip — FBI

Will do. I'll talk to Putin and see if I can get the pee pee tape whilst I'm at it.

 

[exchemist]

This isn't exactly current but we still see the false narratives in media that Trump and far right groups coordinated or planned Jan 6th, but it's still a popular lie that is still parroted even though the FBI found little evidence of it.

So the question is:
Why does some media outlets and those who parrot the disinformation about Jan 6th keep at it? It seems holding on to a lie is more comfortable than facing the findings of one of the largest law enforcement entities in the U.S. even when that lie serves to cause division and undermines democracy.

"WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.
"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.""
source: Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources | Reuters

I'm not sure I have seen any media claim that it was a pre-planned coup attempt. Can you provide examples of the sort of thing you are referring to?

But it's an interesting topic, given that we now live in the age of social media. Al Qaeda, for instance, no longer organises centrally the terrorist attacks carried out in its name. Individual cells can do that for themselves, connected by social media and inspired by the Al Qaeda ideology. The result has been a lot of inept attempts at terrorism (underpants bomber, Glasgow fry-up etc.) But eventually one may be successful.

What seems to have happened on 6th January is more akin to that way of working than an organised coup attempt. Trump fanned the flames with his insistence that the election had been rigged, and worked up the crowd on the day, then left them to it. He couldn't do any more, given that he had been told by the military that they owed allegiance to the Republic rather than to him as president.

The rioters had no coherent plan to take over, that must be obvious to just about everyone. But commentators are right, I think, to fear that the forces unleashed on a modest scale on 6th January could perhaps be tapped in future for a more serious effort to undermine the Republic. Drawing parallels with the rise of nazism in Germany is not misplaced, in my view. The US is not there yet, of course, but it is as well to keep history in mind, in order to avoid accidentally heading off in that direction.

Possibly, given your interest in the far right and its methods, you may have some comments on this.

 

[metis]

I don't believe I've seen anyone claim that Trump himself actually planned and coordinated the Jan 6 attempted insurrection.

However, as the trials of the militia members begin you will see evidence that those people did indeed preplan and conspire to storm the Capitol. In fact, they did so pretty openly on right-wing websites like Parler.

Bingo!

Plus we know that, once underway, Trump went back to the White House, watched it on t.v., whereas one aid said he was "overjoyed" with what he saw taking place. We also know that McCarthy tried to get Trump to tell the people to stop but Trump refused until roughly two hours later, and then he even praised the group for supporting him. He never called Pence once to see if he was OK.

All the more reason why this January 6th bipartisan commisssion is absolutely necessary, namely to sort out the facts from the fiction. But most of the Pubs don't want this, and it should be of no wonder why they won't.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

This isn't exactly current but we still see the false narratives in media that Trump and far right groups coordinated or planned Jan 6th, but it's still a popular lie that is still parroted even though the FBI found little evidence of it.

So the question is:
Why does some media outlets and those who parrot the disinformation about Jan 6th keep at it? It seems holding on to a lie is more comfortable than facing the findings of one of the largest law enforcement entities in the U.S. even when that lie serves to cause division and undermines democracy.

"WASHINGTON, Aug 20 (Reuters) - The FBI has found scant evidence that the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol was the result of an organized plot to overturn the presidential election result, according to four current and former law enforcement officials.
Though federal officials have arrested more than 570 alleged participants, the FBI at this point believes the violence was not centrally coordinated by far-right groups or prominent supporters of then-President Donald Trump, according to the sources, who have been either directly involved in or briefed regularly on the wide-ranging investigations.
"Ninety to ninety-five percent of these are one-off cases," said a former senior law enforcement official with knowledge of the investigation. "Then you have five percent, maybe, of these militia groups that were more closely organized. But there was no grand scheme with Roger Stone and Alex Jones and all of these people to storm the Capitol and take hostages.""
source: Exclusive: FBI finds scant evidence U.S. Capitol attack was coordinated - sources | Reuters

If that is news, it’s almost as old as me.

 

[Jose Fly]

Bingo!

Plus we know that, once underway, Trump went back to the White House, watched it on t.v., whereas one aid said he was "overjoyed" with what he saw taking place. We also know that McCarthy tried to get Trump to tell the people to stop but Trump refused until roughly two hours later, and then he even praised the group for supporting him. He never called Pence once to see if he was OK.

All the more reason why this January 6th bipartisan commisssion is absolutely necessary, namely to sort out the facts from the fiction. But most of the Pubs don't want this, and it should be of no wonder why they won't.

The only thing I'd add is that I'm not really sure what the commission is going to accomplish. A report? If so, no conservative will ever believe it (few will even bother to read it), and you can be sure right wing media will go into overdrive to tell their followers that it's just a product of the "deep state" and "socialist/communist Democrats".

Unless they come out of their investigation with criminal referrals (beyond the ones being considered for those ignoring subpoenas), I'm not really expecting much in the way of meaningful, tangible results. After all, the Mueller Report was extremely damning for Trump, but in the end it had no real world impact.

 

[metis]

The only thing I'd add is that I'm not really sure what the commission is going to accomplish. A report? If so, no conservative will ever believe it (few will even bother to read it), and you can be sure right wing media will go into overdrive to tell their followers that it's just a product of the "deep state" and "socialist/communist Democrats".

Unless they come out of their investigation with criminal referrals (beyond the ones being considered for those ignoring subpoenas), I'm not really expecting much in the way of meaningful, tangible results. After all, the Mueller Report was extremely damning for Trump, but in the end it had no real world impact.

I agree, but I do think it must be done in order to try and understand from those involved, directly or indirectly, who did what and when.

For one example, the week before the January 6th fiasco, there were tours conducted by some congressional Pubs it seems of the basement area of the White House where the security rooms were that are always supposed to be off limits, plus no tours were to be conducted at that time anywhere in the Capitol.

As a comparison, the House Republicans conducted six Benghazi commissions dealing with Hillary but now they don't want even one dealing with the attempted overthrow of our own Capitol and Trump's "BIG LIE" to try and "find votes" to overturn the election that even Barr said was legit.

 

[Jose Fly]

I agree, but I do think it must be done in order to try and understand from those involved, directly or indirectly, who did what and when.

True. I guess they have to do the right thing, investigate, seek the truth, and write their report. If half the public ignores it or dismisses it out of hand, there's not much the Commission can do about that. At the very least it'll give folks like us something concrete to point to when we talk about Jan. 6.

As a comparison, the House Republicans conducted six Benghazi commissions dealing with Hillary but now they don't want even one dealing with the attempted overthrow of our own Capitol and Trump's "BIG LIE" to try and "find votes" to overturn the election that even Barr said was legit.

Oh, don't get me started on how the GOP has so quickly morphed into a cult of personality, and are now almost exclusively about fealty to Trump. We'd be here all day!

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Of course. The left never accepts the facts. Just their agenda and propaganda.

Edit: Had to check and make sure this wasn’t the Right-Wing-Nut Dir. But it’s OK. We can speak the truth here. The gif stays.

 

[Bodie]

All the more reason why this January 6th bipartisan commisssion is absolutely necessary, namely to sort out the facts from the fiction.

Perhaps some of the more naive may buy into that romantic vision but it is apparent that Nancy Pelosi's motives are far from sorting out facts from fiction. The conventional way is for the majority to allow the minority the ability to name it's own dissenting members as they have no influence over the majorities ultimate decision other than contradicting the majorities claims and raise questions. Pelosi refused to do this and outright rejected the minority choices of Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) and Jim Banks (R-Ind) in favour of Liz Cheney (R-Wyo) and Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill) two republicans who bought into the insurrection narrative as outlined by Pelosi. The Jan 6th commission is nothing more than a vehicle to conduct a show trial under the pretense of bipartisanship.