Females In France Face Full Face Exposure

[MissAlice]

I'm probably going to be criticized for this but I still don't understand the need to ban burqas unless for security reasons such as IDs and license. I've seen some women over here in burqas and it never really disturbed me in the least except that it looked uncomfortable. I don't really believe in forcing a lifestyle onto someone unless there's a risk involved and to me the only risk is if they refuse to show their idenity for a license or whatever. In public I don't see the problem though.

This is France though and I really don't know how things go on over there. Here in the U.S. I was taught that this was a country where we are free to worship as we please. But there again there are boundaries when you come here and decide to work in a job that requires uniforms and other requirements. This country separates religion from state so you have to be willing to give up some freedoms in order to comply for positions in work places. Religion is respected but not held so highly here and for very good reasons.

 

[linwood]

This isn`t about the burka.
This is about France taking their culture back after almost giving it away.

I don`t particularly like telling people what they can and cannot wear in public but all nations already do this so why can`t France?

Why can`t my wife walk topless down Main Street?
The only reason she can`t is because it upsets the sensibilities of a Christian based culture.

I see no difference here.

The Burka upsets the sensibilities of a secular based culture therefore it has been banned.

Why are y`all not raging against the inability of women to walk around topless?
I feel it`s a much more deserving issue.

 

[Erebus]

Unfortunately, nobody in any country is allowed to wear whatever they like in public. I can understand to an extent the argument that a burka should be allowed as a matter of freedom, the problem with this line of reasoning is that by that logic EVERYTHING should be allowed.
In germany, displaying a swastika can get you some hard time, any complaints about that? In england, hoodies aren't allowed inside most shops because they can be used to conceal identity, Is this unreasonable? In many western countries walking around wearing a KKK hood can get you arrested for inciting racial hatred. In almost every country, walking around in nothing but nipple clamps would get you locked away in a flash. Like it or not, we all have a dress code in one way or another.
Now I'll be honest, I don't see the burka as being offensive, but then I don't see Cradle of Filth's infamous "Jesus is a ****" T-shirt as being offensive either. That T-shirt has got people arrested in England before and so I don't wear one myself. Sometimes the law sucks, but special consideration can't be given to one group and denied to another. Like UV mentioned, I wouldn't DREAM of walking through an Islamic country wearing my Satanic jewellry... mostly because I'm not a ******* idiot.

 

[MissAlice]

I would sure hate to live in a country where certain clothing got me arrested that's all I can say. Reminds me too much of some of the countries in the east where women are beaten or arrested without their head scarves and burqas.

 

[linwood]

I would sure hate to live in a country where certain clothing got me arrested that's all I can say. Reminds me too much of some of the countries in the east where women are beaten or arrested without their head scarves and burqas.

I believe you already do.

Are you saying you can go out in public in ANY attire you wish to?

In my county half the beaches allow thong bathing suits however if you wear one to the other half of the beaches you will be cited and or arrested.

One is county law and one is city law.

In Miami/Key West a woman can be topless on the beach.
On the Gulf Coast of Florida she`ll be arrested.

 

[MissAlice]

I believe you already do.

Are you saying you can go out in public in ANY attire you wish to?

In my county half the beaches allow thong bathing suits however if you wear one to the other half of the beaches you will be cited and or arrested.

One is county law and one is city law.

In Miami/Key West a woman can be topless on the beach.
On the Gulf Coast of Florida she`ll be arrested.

I guess what I'm trying to say is getting arrested for what you wear not what you don't wear. But yeah I think it's silly our laws are like that.

 

[blackout]

France is not an Islamic country. And ideally people shouldn't be made to wear something they're uncomfortable in, regardless of what country we're talking about. I'm afraid your point is moot.

I have no idea what you're trying to say.

Obviously France is not an Islamic country.

The Islamic culture runs COUNTER to the French one.
So WHY would strict Muslim ever want to live in France
over an Islamic country to begin with?
(was the original point Smoke made, and I agreed with)

It's like, you come in with your Burqua and say
"I'm against everything you are".
(The burqua alone says it.)

And then there is the issue of the double standard.
Muslims are perfectly fine with Islamic countries
protecting the asthetic and values of their culture
from "foreign" (in the broad sense) influence,
but then expect EVERYONE ELSE in the world
to do just the opposite for them.

That is called , "having your cake and eating it too".

Trust me, in an Islamic country
I would not be allowed to wear ANYTHING that I am comfortable in.
At LEAST extend the SAME courtesy's for others
what you expect them to extend for you.
You know?

Lose the attitude, he did nothing to warrant it.

Aparantely you know nothing of the attitude I'm wearing.:flirt:
And I don't "lose" my "attitudes"
I put them away neatly where I can find them
when I want them as accessories.

And in the spirit of this thread,
please DON'T tell me what attitudes I can and cannot wear.
It isn't right of you.
I am a WOMAN after all.
As well, my attitudes reflect my religion.
Your discrimination is not appreciated.

(oh. and I call everybody "honey".
It's kind of a ... 'calling card'.)


Oh and he's a she.

Oh okay. So how is any of this relevant? The law is about making a minority group conform to the majority's culture. It is about us changing them. Not the other way around. We can't expect Islamic minorities to respect and tolerate our culture, while making them forgo theirs. That's a double standard. Besides, I think you'll find that there are a lot of Muslims who don't fit under the blanket stereotype that you're trying to fit them all under, and that many of them are very tolerant of Western society. This law will affect these people too.

You think people walking around in black body bags does not CHANGE a culture?

Well it does.

We are visual beings.
Every culture has an asthetic.

No one is forcing ANYONE to move to France.

France has a RIGHT to protect it's asthetic and it's secular culture.

Islamic minorities will NEVER RESPECT OUR CULTURE.
Who are you kidding?
Our culture is Satan to them.
The way we dress. Our sexual freedom/s.
The way we talk. The way we express "relationship", and interact.
Our music, our movies, our sculpture, our art, our fashion/s.

Look.
I personally don't care if people want to walk around in black body bags
and black blankets, (actually it's rather goth)
but if too much of that were to begin affecting the ASTHETIC
of my secular country....
I would also begin dressing in accordance with my own religious tendencies.
To me, everything is sacred, or NOTHING is.
Black fabric is NOT sacred to me.
I can wear it too.
In whatever fashion reflects my own views and beliefs.
Weather anyone else likes it or not.
Because I am a religious woman,
and we have rights you know.

Anyway. France has the right to protect it's cultural asthetic.
If you DON'T LIKE FRANCE'S CULTURAL ASTHETIC,
MOVE SOMEWHERE ELSE.
This refers to EVERYONE, and anyone.
not just Muslims.

It's possible to kill someone with a sewing needle. Maybe we should ban clothes altogether to limit the extent to which people can hide weapons...? :sarcastic

All kinds of cloaks and long coats and head/face coverings
would make for a very interesting societal asthetic actually...

These are more my Style.

 

[blackout]

More, just because I like them....

............................................reversable!

 

[blackout]

If you can't look at these,
you probably shouldn't be living in France...

Spoiler: Mannequin Display...

 

[blackout]

I think I'm gunna start a cloak, cape and mask apparel thread.

*UV envisions a new asthetic for modern society*....

 

[blackout]

Now France has confirmed this as law. Its implementation is no longer in doubt. especially when it achieved such a wide margin of support.

It now seem that Muslims have four direct choices.
Accept the laws.
Accept the penalties.
Leave the country.
or more likely campaign for a change in the law.

It is no more outrageous than making Christians obey Muslim laws in Muslim countries.
And they get no choices.

Thank you.
And anyone else for that matter.
(ie, not just Christians)

 

[blackout]

male Terrorists have been caught in the UK wearing female clothing and face scarves.
It is a known issue.
The wearing of face scarves by women, is an Arab social custom not a religious one.
Modern society in the west, makes numerous laws as to what can and can not be worn, and in what circumstances, as do societies in the middle east. The lists are not identical.

However the countries involved have every right to impose these laws.

And to be honest, secular men should be just as free to wear
(what we consider to be) feminine clothing as a norm
if that is what THEY feel most comfortable in.

Why do MEN get the raw end of the deal here,
regarding Self Expression in apparel?

It's yet another double standard.

Why aren't men free to wear ANYTHING that women are,
without societal discrimination?

What's all this "Women should be allowed to wear whatever they want" stuff.
What about the Men? you know?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

And to be honest, secular men should be just as free to wear
(what we consider to be) feminine clothing as a norm
if that is what THEY feel most comfortable in.

Why do MEN get the raw end of the deal here,
regarding Self Expression in apparel?

It's yet another double standard.

Why aren't men free to wear ANYTHING that women are,
without societal discrimination?

What's all this "Women should be allowed to wear whatever they want" stuff.
What about the Men? you know?

There is nothing to stop men wearing female clothing in the UK. In fact many do.
Cross dressing is not illegal.
One of the senior lecturers in the college where I worked, before I retired, always wore a dress, High heels and accessories. He looked better when he had shaved though, Make up and designer stubble do not mix well.

I am not sure how long he would last in a Muslim country, And he was not even gay.

 

[DarkSun]

Unfortunately, nobody in any country is allowed to wear whatever they like in public. I can understand to an extent the argument that a burka should be allowed as a matter of freedom, the problem with this line of reasoning is that by that logic EVERYTHING should be allowed.
In germany, displaying a swastika can get you some hard time, any complaints about that? In england, hoodies aren't allowed inside most shops because they can be used to conceal identity, Is this unreasonable? In many western countries walking around wearing a KKK hood can get you arrested for inciting racial hatred. In almost every country, walking around in nothing but nipple clamps would get you locked away in a flash. Like it or not, we all have a dress code in one way or another.

Now I'll be honest, I don't see the burka as being offensive, but then I don't see Cradle of Filth's infamous "Jesus is a ****" T-shirt as being offensive either. That T-shirt has got people arrested in England before and so I don't wear one myself. Sometimes the law sucks, but special consideration can't be given to one group and denied to another. Like UV mentioned, I wouldn't DREAM of walking through an Islamic country wearing my Satanic jewellry... mostly because I'm not a ******* idiot.

I don't think people should be banned from doing something that hurts no one tbh.

Thank you.
And anyone else for that matter.
(ie, not just Christians)

I think placing laws on what someone is allowed to wear is a restriction of personal liberty... I think that forcing someone to wear something they're uncomfortable in (ie, a man in a bikini/dress) is cruel. And I don't think it really matters what country this is happening in. It happening in the Middle East is not an excuse to do it here.

 

[Skwim]

I would sure hate to live in a country where certain clothing got me arrested that's all I can say.

Don't know where you live, but if it's in the USA try walking down public streets in a thong and pasties and see what happens.

 

[DarkSun]

Don't know where you live, but if it's in the USA try walking down public streets in a thong and pasties and see what happens.

Not sure if I want to see that or not.

 

[Willamena]

Women who defy the planned law face fines of up to £125, or being ordered to attend citizenship classes.

These sentences, which would be doubled if the ‘victim’ is a minor, are designed to avoid men subjugating women.

So, in order to avoid men subjugating women, the government subjugates personal freedom. Nice.

 

[linwood]

So, in order to avoid men subjugating women, the government subjugates personal freedom. Nice.

Is there a government on the planet that does not subjugate "Personal Freedom" to one extent or the other?

 

[Willamena]

Is there a government on the planet that does not subjugate "Personal Freedom" to one extent or the other?

Does it matter whether there is or isn't?

 

[linwood]

Does it matter whether there is or isn't?

It does when someone denigrates one nations subjugation of freedom but lets another nations subjugation of freedom pass without comment.

It`s hypocrisy.