Ferguson: Moving on..why none of this will mater...

[MysticSang'ha]

I'm in. We've already had "I can't be racist because I have a black friend" at least twice from the certain someone you are talking about.

Right.

And it's not worth pointing that out as much as it's worth pointing out the video about Michael Brown and any/all other of the Violent Black Man tropes that run amok in the Ferguson debates. Because life is just as hard being white too. And racism is racism is racism and it never matters who commits it and...

Oh LOOK! LOOTERS!!

 

[Alceste]

Right.

And it's not worth pointing that out as much as it's worth pointing out the video about Michael Brown and any/all other of the Violent Black Man tropes that run amok in the Ferguson debates. Because life is just as hard being white too. And racism is racism is racism and it never matters who commits it and...

Oh LOOK! LOOTERS!!

Lol. Just like the dogs in Up with the squirrels. "Now, now, let's be skeptical of eye witness testimony and wait until the facts come out... HEY CHECK OUT THIS STOCK PHOTO OF A BROKEN EYE SOCKET! THAT SETTLES IT ONCE AND FOR ALL!"

 

[MysticSang'ha]

In a mud wrestling match, it's hard to tell which is the more mudogenic.
Best thing is to stay out of the splash zone.

Unless we get comments from the peanut gallery ABOUT the splash zone. People have a lot to say, don't they?

I'll bite. Stop trying to kill the party atmosphere!

But I like to play too!

This thread went off the rails long ago.
Your mental health is worth more than any point which will be heard & satisfactorily addressed.

I appreciate that. Seriously. I'm concerned about all the others who show frequent and acute symptoms of PTSD. I've been there and done that after surviving some horrible **** in the past, and know some methods of coping with behavioral applications and working with the autonomic nervous system, but a lot of these people are younger with less life experience.

Here, just for you!

I'm wearing....

:hug: Thanks.

 

[averageJOE]

I didn't say you did. But the facts are Wilson got fired, in fact his whole department got fired because of poor policing. He was a member of a police culture that was involved in racial tensions, so much so that all involved in that culture were fired. If you don't think that culture influenced his thinking then you are being naive.

If you were not talking about me then you should put a little more thought into your word usage, a you were responding directly to me.

Pretty much so. Just like many of you are going to continue with your presumed conclusions that Michael Brown was asking for it by virtue of his being black.

 

[Revoltingest]

Unless we get comments from the peanut gallery ABOUT the splash zone. People have a lot to say, don't they?

Most of what I see in the thread now are allusions to faults of unidentified people on the other side. No one's taking a firm stand for one party or the other, but rather proffering factoids which confirm the side they want to take....but won't fully quite yet.
He's divorced!
He's a shoplifter!
Those people are racist!
Those people are looters!
We can't wait for more evidence!

I know the problem....it's a mess, we don't know for certain whom to loathe yet, & even when we do there's no quick or simple fix. It's gonna remain a mess, your friends will continue to suffer, & your laments will be sidestepped. What can one do? I assuage my woes with garish garb. I just bought some sox: a pair with robots shooting death rays, a pair with bacon strips, a pair with sharks (for court), & a pair with skeletons (for Day Of The Dead).

Put these on your tootsies, & you'll feel better....not less engaged, but happier...

 

[averageJOE]

I'm not seeing anybody saying that out loud, but there is a definite double standard among Wilson's defenders. Pejoratives for Brown (thug, POS, criminal, etc) pour out of them like candy from a busted pinata, but if anyone suggests Wilson might have behaved badly, suddenly we "don't have enough information" to figure out whether or not he's a thug or a POS. It's absurd, to be honest. Especially when you compare the relative moral depravity of stealing a box of cigarillos and repeatedly shooting an unarmed person in a densely populated city street.

Yes. I agree with you that there are some out there, even here, that have concluded that Wilson was 100% justified in shooting Brown.

And I also know that there are others out there, even here, who have concluded that Wilson was 100% unjustified in shooting Brown.

But neither camp is being honest. One may think they have all the facts, but they only know as much as much as the next person, most of which are basic details. Minus the KKK, most of the supporters are mostly supporting the system, which is he is innocent until proven guilty and that he has a right to a fair trial.

 

[averageJOE]

No, it isn't. The officer has not told us his side of the story. He's gone into hiding, and he's not saying a thing.

You are aware that his case is in front of a grand jury as we speak, right?

Truth of the matter, and I know it sucks, but Wilson and his lawyers do not have to prove a darn thing to any of us or the rest of the public (although, in the end I think they should), they only need to prove it to a jury.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

I didn't say you did. But the facts are Wilson got fired, in fact his whole department got fired because of poor policing. He was a member of a police culture that was involved in racial tensions, so much so that all involved in that culture were fired. If you don't think that culture influenced his thinking then you are being naive.

How do we know that he was influenced by that bad culture from his previous job? We can tell by his actions! Fast forward from Jennings police department to Wilson's current employment in Ferguson. 6 years with a spotless record. So where is that bad influence from his previous job? Why does officer Wilson have no complaints about him in Ferguson? Sure he does now, but can a cop control having to defend himself (assuming that's what happened)? No.

And also, I've already presented a source that says 7 of the former officers from Jennings were RE-hired at Jennings. Like I mentioned previously, disbanding an entire police force doesn't mean EVERYONE (including Black cops and other non-Caucasians) were fired for or involved in wrongdoing. Jennings city council just wanted all new faces so it was a blanket decision so to speak.

 

[AgnosticBoy]

Again, I'm sadly amused that folks like CC and St Frank are confronted by people who think what they say are racist, and yet we got more than a few very very problematic posts by a certain contributor that remains uncontested by these very same people.

And....I'll bet $$$ that MY post bringing this up will be argued against because this member's kind of rhetoric is more than tolerated.

.

.

We're still playing Derailment Bingo, aren't we? We might as well have some fun with this.

Define "racism" and then explain how mentioning what many Black men do, wearing their pants on their a%%, fits the definition. If you can't make a logical connection, then you're clearly abusing the race card by using it to silence or blackmail others. Such behavior should be reported because I see it as bullying and slander (libel).

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Define "racism" and then explain how mentioning what many Black men do, wearing their pants on their a%%, fits the definition....

Hmmm. :sarcastic

Which block is that on the derailment bingo card? Anyone?

If you can't make a logical connection, then you're clearly abusing the race card by using it to silence or blackmail others. Such behavior should be reported because I see it as bullying and slander (libel).

Oh no. I'm scared. Please don't. I have a family and stuff.

 

[Poeticus]

As a colored, dark-skinned individual, I can't say that I ever grow tired of reading White people calling other White people racist.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

As a colored, dark-skinned individual, I can't say that I ever grow tired of reading White people calling other White people racist.

Or reading dark-skinned individuals telling other dark-skinned individuals they're spewing nonsense and should just shut up.

I challenge you to a thumb war with your thumbs up smilie.

 

[Poeticus]

Or reading dark-skinned individuals telling other dark-skinned individuals they're spewing nonsense and should just shut up.

I challenge you to a thumb war with your thumbs up smilie.

I'll pass on the thumb war. And I have never stated that "dark-skinned individuals are spewing nonsense and should just shut up". In fact, it would be more logical of me to complain about how conversations on racial tensions are often monopolized by Whites; wherein said conversations, a vast and wide array of minority opinions are often lacking.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'll pass on the thumb war. And I have never stated that "dark-skinned individuals are spewing nonsense and should just shut up". In fact, it would be more logical of me to complain about how conversations on racial tensions are often monopolized by Whites; wherein said conversations, a vast and wide array of minority opinions are often lacking.

YES! We do much better as a whole with greater diversity in conversation and perspectives. And I, for one, want to read more conversations where people of color are talking about racial tensions.

But, seriously, as a bisexual, I will say that it's super cool when I see a straight person telling another person they're homophobic or biphobic. And it's also super cool when I see a man telling another person they're being sexist.

I mean, I voted FOR a People of Color DIR so that white folks didn't dominate the conversation so much as we do here.

 

[ShivaFan]

The number one racist issue in America now is black racists and the "rap culture" racist attacks on Indians (from India), Koreans, Viets, Chinese, Jews, and the lst is ever growing longer and including racial violent and jealous attacks now on Middle Eastern and even North Africans, many successful immigrants, many shopowners, violent attacks based on racism and jealousy of their success and hard work and good unified families valuing education, and it has to stop.

About ten years ago I had to go through the emotional trauma of walking into a shop run by an Indian man in Hayward California, a place I had visited in the past, the owner had facial recognition of me, he was packing up but let me in. He went into a total psychological, physical and emotional breakduwn explaining to me how two blacks came in while his wife was minding the shop, verbially assaulted her with racial epithets and then shot her in the stomach and robbed.

I am sick of this racism.

By the way, I am in a park right now on my day off, and once again the garbage of Swisher Sweets cigars packages are thrown in the grass, a reoccuring observation in many public parks. My wife who is involved in the teaching profession explained to me this brand is used to open and layer marijuanna into this smoking product. I believe I heard the thug who attacked that nice shop owner in Ferguson took these same brand of cigars and there is blood samples which should come out proving dope in his system at the time he punched that cop in the face. This is another matter of drug abuse that needs some sort of scrutiny and I am sick of the garbage thrown in our public parks by such thugs.

 

[Poeticus]

YES! We do much better as a whole with greater diversity in conversation and perspectives. And I, for one, want to read more conversations where people of color are talking about racial tensions.

But, seriously, as a bisexual, I will say that it's super cool when I see a straight person telling another person they're homophobic or biphobic. And it's also super cool when I see a man telling another person they're being sexist.

And I beg to the goddesses of my foremothers that you try to understand, at least somewhat, the following:

The feeling of happiness that traverses through my veins when I hear other Indians telling misogynistic Indians how in the socio-cultural Indic context, mistreatment of the Indian feminine is a slight to the female divine, the Shakti. And I can't express how grateful I feel when Indians tell other Indians that are sexist or homophobic that love, as per the spiritual contexts of the Indic subcontinent, is a union of souls, not of gender or sex.​

The reason I state this is to offer a minority perspective that is similar to how you, a White female, feel grateful or happy when you experience similar situations in your socio-cultural contexts. I guess what I'm trying to say is that many minorities feel underrepresented when the monopolization follows a certain socio-cultural paradigm (i.e., predominately a Western-centric one). But it always makes me feel as if I am being listened to when minorities that are deeply entrenched in the upsides of their socio-cultural backgrounds are able to relay how they view such situations through their backgrounds from using a progressive lens, so to speak.

I mean, I voted FOR a People of Color DIR so that white folks didn't dominate the conversation so much as we do here.

As you know, I voted against said DIR because I, personally, don't see monopolization of views on religion and socio-cultural affairs as being monopolized by a certain set of ethno-linguistic identifiers. Ironically, I only see such monopolization when discussions like these occur. However, this is not to say that I would greatly be against such DIR coming into place. It's just ... the context of the spurring of the moment of that thread coming into place came prematurely from Sunstone's thread. Minorities have a similar problem in our camps as well: understanding socio-cultural racisms and xenophobia as compared to institutionalized racism. It's a very touchy topic amongst minorities, ourselves. In fact, when many from our camps profess views contradictory to those of mainstream camps, we, unfortunately, are called as Uncle Toms. And then any progressive conversations we can have are often delayed indefinitely.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

And I beg to the goddesses of my foremothers that you try to understand, at least somewhat, the following:

The feeling of happiness that traverses through my veins when I hear other Indians telling misogynistic Indians how in the socio-cultural Indic context, mistreatment of the Indian feminine is a slight to the female divine, the Shakti. And I can't express how grateful I feel when Indians tell other Indians that are sexist or homophobic that love, as per the spiritual contexts of the Indic subcontinent, is a union of souls, not of gender or sex.​

The reason I state this is to offer a minority perspective that is similar to how you, a White female, feel grateful or happy when you experience similar situations in your socio-cultural contexts. I guess what I'm trying to say is that many minorities feel underrepresented when the monopolization follows a certain socio-cultural paradigm (i.e., predominately a Western-centric one). But it always makes me feel as if I am being listened to when minorities that are deeply entrenched in the upsides of their socio-cultural backgrounds are able to relay how they view such situations through their backgrounds from using a progressive lens, so to speak.



As you know, I voted against said DIR because I, personally, don't see monopolization of views on religion and socio-cultural affairs as being monopolized by a certain set of ethno-linguistic identifiers. Ironically, I only see such monopolization when discussions like these occur. However, this is not to say that I would greatly be against such DIR coming into place. It's just ... the context of the spurring of the moment of that thread coming into place came prematurely from Sunstone's thread. Minorities have a similar problem in our camps as well: understanding socio-cultural racisms and xenophobia as compared to institutionalized racism. It's a very touchy topic amongst minorities, ourselves. In fact, when many from our camps profess views contradictory to those of mainstream camps, we, unfortunately, are called as Uncle Toms. And then any progressive conversations we can have are often delayed indefinitely.

Thanks for explaining.

 

[Poeticus]

Thanks for explaining.

No, thank you for taking the time to listen.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes anyone can call someone a racist, which I will report after posting this post, but for it to mean something you should be obligated to show evidence why. And you wonder why the race card is losing credibility.

Tis especially ironic to be called a racist by someone who has made racist, sexist, &
ageist remarks in the forums. Of course, it's acceptable when makes them about
those seen as "privileged". It points out the problem that all this name calling is
counter-productive histrionics bespeaking immaturity in dealing with anger.
The unfortunate result is that conversations become difficult. Let's enjoy differences
of opinion, & politely address what bothers us.

 

[Alceste]

Yes anyone can call someone a racist, which I will report after posting this post, but for it to mean something you should be obligated to show evidence why. And you wonder why the race card is losing credibility.

The argument that the systemic racial bias that persists in the US is a fiction to cover up the "fact" that "black people can't function in a white society" for "biological" reasons is racist. Obviously so. Unambiguously so. There's absolutely no wiggle room in that argument for it to be identified as anything other than full blown racism - the exact type of thing you'd hear around the water cooler at a KKK meeting, or in a thread on the leading edge of bad weather forum.

You can feel free to report me for pointing this out, but you might as well report me for calling a person who believes Jesus is the son of God a Christian.

Granted, that specific example is not your argument, but you called it, and I quote, a "very good insight".