first-born of all creation

[Desert Snake]

G-d--> through the Spirit--> Jesus the man.

The Bible is basically impossible to understand or reconcile without this basic understanding that Jesus is G-d.

 

[Nada]

G-d--> through the Spirit--> Jesus the man.

The Bible is basically impossible to understand or reconcile without this basic understanding that Jesus is G-d.

Thats is incorrect and based on human understanding.

 

[kjw47]

When God was creating mankind in the Garden of Eden, God was speaking to someone when He said this,"Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness," Gen 1:26 Adam was not God's first creation. Do you know who it was that God was speaking to? It was Jesus in his pre human existence.

:yes:

Yes it was Jehovah and his master worker-Proverbs 8--Jehovah creates all things through Jesus( Acts 2:22)-- Prov 8:23--produced me( created) as the beginning( first and last directly created by God) of your ways( creation)--
Grew especially fond of me( Jesus)
1Cor 1:30)
Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation)( Jesus)
That is why Jesus teachjes he has a God, just like all created beings do--John 20:17,Rev 3:12----

Alls one has to do is believe--Jesus over mens dogmas. So many claiming to love Jesus, but will not believe him.

 

[Nada]

Yes it was Jehovah and his master worker-Proverbs 8--Jehovah creates all things through Jesus( Acts 2:22)-- Prov 8:23--produced me( created) as the beginning( first and last directly created by God) of your ways( creation)--
Grew especially fond of me( Jesus)
1Cor 1:30)
Coll 1:15--The firstborn of all creation)( Jesus)
That is why Jesus teachjes he has a God, just like all created beings do--John 20:17,Rev 3:12----

Alls one has to do is believe--Jesus over mens dogmas. So many claiming to love Jesus, but will not believe him.

Yep.......

 

[sincerly]

"who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation," Colossians 1:15

The above verse often is understood to mean that Jesus existed before all other creation, but when we look at the term 'firstborn', and 'created beings', in the light of the context of the whole Bible, it does not really indicate literally the firstborn of creation of the world, No!, It is only in the sense of being the first in His Age who was born among the spiritually dead people. These verses makes it clear:
"And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy" Colossians 1:18

The term 'dead' in above verse has a spiritual signification, similar to:

"Wake up, sleeper, rise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you." Ephesians 5:14

According to this concept that by coming of Jesus revelation a 'new man' was created, that caused the 'dead' to rise from their spiritual sleep, Jesus Himself is considered to be the Firstborn among all those who were created new. This concept is seen from the following verse:
"and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator" Colossians 3:10

Originally Posted by disciple View Post
G-d--> through the Spirit--> Jesus the man.

The Bible is basically impossible to understand or reconcile without this basic understanding that Jesus is G-d.

Thats is incorrect and based on human understanding.

Correct knowledge by which one can become wise in the information presented in the Scriptures is placing the context of the Scriptures not only in the setting of verses, but in the overall picture which GOD is conveying to mankind.

The scriptures say that GOD created the Angels/their abode prior to their even being casted out of it---to earth which was seen to be created in Gen.1:1-31.

Yes, Controversy/Adversarial(Satan) conflict and the leader--Lucifer--arose in heaven prior to the Creation of this world. Therefore, a solution was approved and provided prior to the foundation for the redemption and the vindication of the Loving GOD of all things created in that heavenly creation and of this world.

Let's look at Col. 1 in context to what Paul is writing in that epistle. Paul was hearing of a congregation of Believers that had not heard his voice---and writing an encouraging epistle to that Church body. It was the same "Everlasting Gospel" that was said to "go ye and teach". Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the redemption of all who would believe.
Yes, vs.15-19, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Therefore, Jesus Christ came to earth as the propitiation/payment of the Sin penalty--Death. Because HE laid down HIS life as payment of mankind's death sentence, repentant mankind can acquiesce to the taking of HIS life again("first born from the dead").

 

[Nada]

Yes, Controversy/Adversarial(Satan) conflict and the leader--Lucifer--arose in heaven prior to the Creation of this world. Therefore, a solution was approved and provided prior to the foundation for the redemption and the vindication of the Loving GOD of all things created in that heavenly creation and of this world.

Let's look at Col. 1 in context to what Paul is writing in that epistle. Paul was hearing of a congregation of Believers that had not heard his voice---and writing an encouraging epistle to that Church body. It was the same "Everlasting Gospel" that was said to "go ye and teach". Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the redemption of all who would believe.
Yes, vs.15-19, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Therefore, Jesus Christ came to earth as the propitiation/payment of the Sin penalty--Death. Because HE laid down HIS life as payment of mankind's death sentence, repentant mankind can acquiesce to the taking of HIS life again("first born from the dead").

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are incorrect.Lucifer is not Satan.

Lucifer is not satan.That is a huge misconception.All of these people who think they are worshipping satan are actually calling him by a name that does not belong to him to begin with.Lucifer is actually a title.It means light bearer in Latin.It comes from the original word in Hebrew "Hel el" meaning shining one.It refers to the Babylonian Dynasty led by King Nebuchadnezzar.This can be confirmed by reading Isaiah ch. 14,in it's entirety.

If one goes to Isaiah 14:12 it speaks of Lucifer. 12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

If you go to 14:16 it calls him a man.We all know that Satan is no man.He is a spirit form.Hence,Lucifer cannot be satan the devil. 16Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

For more confirmation you can go to 14:15 and see how it speaks of Lucifer going to the realm of the dead,which is the grave.Satan the devil as we all know is not reserved for the grave.He is reserved for the eternal lake of fire. 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,to the depths of the pit.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So we can clearly see that Lucifer is not satan the devil.

By the way satan and devil is not his name either.Satan means adversary.Devil means liar and slanderer.Theses are also titles.

 

[InChrist]

In Colossians Chapter one Jesus is not called the first created of all creation. Nor is he called the firstborn of Jehovah or God?


I think it's necessary for the word (prototokos) to be interpreted by its context and I believe in this passage it clearly means: preeminent one, heir, supremacy, positional preeminence. So I believe Christ is called “firstborn” because of his position.



The first part of verse 15 tells us that he is the image of the invisible God. The next verses (16-18), point out further the meaning of “firstborn” by stating that Christ created all things and that he is supreme and has preeminence over all things. Col. 1:19 says “it pleased the Father that in Him (Christ) all the fullness should dwell.” Then, Col. 2:9-10 states “For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in him who is the head of all principality and power.”, or “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ who is head over every power and authority.”


I also think one must be consistent, if the word means first created then it would also have to be translated that way a few verses further on in the same passage (vs. 18), which does not make any sense...And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn (first created) from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Yet the meaning of preeminence does and I believe this is what Paul was emphasizing...

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. 18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Related to this, the Greek word used in Revelation 3:14 for “beginning” is arche. It is translated as: beginning, corner, magistrate, power, principality, principle rule in the Strong’s Concordance. Arche is the root for the English word architect. This verse does not say that Jesus had a beginning. It indicates as do other scriptures that Jesus Christ is the source, the power, and the Creator who began creation.


I believe these verses and all of scripture clearly point out the supremacy of Christ as Creator over all of creation.

 

[sincerly]

Yes, Controversy/Adversarial(Satan) conflict and the leader--Lucifer--arose in heaven prior to the Creation of this world. Therefore, a solution was approved and provided prior to the foundation for the redemption and the vindication of the Loving GOD of all things created in that heavenly creation and of this world.

Let's look at Col. 1 in context to what Paul is writing in that epistle. Paul was hearing of a congregation of Believers that had not heard his voice---and writing an encouraging epistle to that Church body. It was the same "Everlasting Gospel" that was said to "go ye and teach". Jesus Christ and Him crucified for the redemption of all who would believe.
Yes, vs.15-19, "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;"

Therefore, Jesus Christ came to earth as the propitiation/payment of the Sin penalty--Death. Because HE laid down HIS life as payment of mankind's death sentence, repentant mankind can acquiesce to the taking of HIS life again("first born from the dead").

You are incorrect.Lucifer is not Satan.[/B]

Lucifer is not satan.That is a huge misconception.All of these people who think they are worshipping satan are actually calling him by a name that does not belong to him to begin with.Lucifer is actually a title.It means light bearer in Latin.It comes from the original word in Hebrew "Hel el" meaning shining one.It refers to the Babylonian Dynasty led by King Nebuchadnezzar.This can be confirmed by reading Isaiah ch. 14,in it's entirety.

If one goes to Isaiah 14:12 it speaks of Lucifer. 12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer,[a] son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

If you go to 14:16 it calls him a man.We all know that Satan is no man.He is a spirit form.Hence,Lucifer cannot be satan the devil. 16Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,

For more confirmation you can go to 14:15 and see how it speaks of Lucifer going to the realm of the dead,which is the grave.Satan the devil as we all know is not reserved for the grave.He is reserved for the eternal lake of fire. 15 But you are brought down to the realm of the dead,to the depths of the pit.

Revelation 20:10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

So we can clearly see that Lucifer is not satan the devil.

By the way satan and devil is not his name either.Satan means adversary.Devil means liar and slanderer.Theses are also titles.

Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.

 

[Nada]

Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.

Im sorry to tell you this brother but you are absolutely 100% incorrect and are interpreting these scriptures in a literal sense.First,you are wrong about King Nebuchadnezzar.It his dynasty that is being spoken of In Isaiah 14.
The entire chapter is judgment being passed upon the Babylonian Kingdom by God.If you read it in it's entirety, and not just some verses, you will see this.Nebuchadnezzar was told that he would rise to the heavens but he would fall.This can be confirmed in the book of Daniel.

READ THIS, Daniel 4:20-27. 20 The tree you saw, which grew large and strong, with its top touching the sky, visible to the whole earth, 21 with beautiful leaves and abundant fruit, providing food for all, giving shelter to the wild animals, and having nesting places in its branches for the birds— 22 Your Majesty, you are that tree! You have become great and strong; your greatness has grown until it reaches the sky, and your dominion extends to distant parts of the earth.
NOW READ THIS..............

23 “Your Majesty saw a holy one, a messenger, coming down from heaven and saying, ‘Cut down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump, bound with iron and bronze, in the grass of the field, while its roots remain in the ground. Let him be drenched with the dew of heaven; let him live with the wild animals, until seven times pass by for him.’

CONTINUE READING THE PROPHECY....

24 “This is the interpretation, Your Majesty, and this is the decree the Most High has issued against my lord the king: 25 You will be driven away from people and will live with the wild animals; you will eat grass like the ox and be drenched with the dew of heaven. Seven times will pass by for you until you acknowledge that the Most High is sovereign over all kingdoms on earth and gives them to anyone he wishes. 26 The command to leave the stump of the tree with its roots means that your kingdom will be restored to you when you acknowledge that Heaven rules. 27 Therefore, Your Majesty, be pleased to accept my advice: Renounce your sins by doing what is right, and your wickedness by being kind to the oppressed. It may be that then your prosperity will continue.”


The prophecy in the book of Daniel 4:20-27 coincides with Isaiah 14:12-17. Exactly.....


Isaiah 14:13,14. 13 You said in your heart,
“I will ascend to the heavens;
I will raise my throne
above the stars of God;
I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly,
on the utmost heights of Mount Zaphon.
14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.”

Now read this Daniel 4:28-31. 28 All this happened to King Nebuchadnezzar. 29 Twelve months later, as the king was walking on the roof of the royal palace of Babylon, 30 he said, “Is not this the great Babylon I have built as the royal residence, by my mighty power and for the glory of my majesty?”

31 Even as the words were on his lips, a voice came from heaven, “This is what is decreed for you, King Nebuchadnezzar: Your royal authority has been taken from you.

After King Nebuchadnezzar was restored back to normal and reclaimed his Kingdom as prophesied ,he acknowledged Jehovah God as the Most High.

His dynasty continued, while Daniel was living amongst them, in Babylon.Daniel served as a lamp for God to prophecy to them and do God's will.It came to be that later on King Nebuchadnezzar's grandson,called Belshazzar,was throwing a big party with 1,000 people in attendance. He would drink from vessels form the holy site in Jerusalem that were taken in the conquest by King Nebucjadnezzar.When he did this a name appeared on the wall and he and his guest became very frightened.It said, "MENE MENE TEKEL UPHARSIN." NO one knew what it said so Daniel was summoned and translated it.It was judgment past on Belshazzar for his blasphemy.

Daniel 5:26-30.

26 “Here is what these words mean:

Menee : God has numbered the days of your reign and brought it to an end.
27Tekelf : You have been weighed on the scales and found wanting.
28Peresg : Your kingdom is divided and given to the Medes and Persians.”
29Then at Belshazzar’s command, Daniel was clothed in purple, a gold chain was placed around his neck, and he was proclaimed the third highest ruler in the kingdom.

30 That very night Belshazzar, king of the Babylonians,he was slain, 31 and Darius the Mede took over the kingdom, at the age of sixty-two.

This was also prophesied by Daniel to King Nebuchadnezzar years before.That is what the vision of the Statue with different metals was about.The Babylonian dynasty was represented by the golden head of the statue.The same one's who came and walked right in to the palace where Belshazzar was having his party with 1,000 guest,and was put to death,was Darius the Mede and King Cyrus.This was the dual powers of Medo Persia.They were well represented by the silver shoulders and chest on the statue.They conquered Babylon who was the golden head.This was also prophesied in Jeremiah 25.Also in Isaiah 45:1.

It speaks of what is spoken of in Daniel in Ezra 1:2.

"This is what Cyrus king of Persia says: "'The LORD, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah.

So we can clearly see that it was the Babylonian dynasty that was being spoken of in Isaiah ch 14.This is what Lucifer is referring to.It began with King Nebuchadnezzar and ended with his grandson Belshazzar.70 years this went on and Daniel was there the entire time.He saw Babylon conquered by Darius the Mede and King Cyrus.Darius did as prophesied.He released all the Jews and sent them back to Jerusalem to rebuild.It all fits into place just as the scripture intended.The Word of God is awesome

 

[Nada]

Figurative Use. Stars are used in the Bible in a figurative sense and in metaphors or similes to represent persons, as in Joseph’s dream in which his parents were represented by the sun and moon, and his 11 brothers by 11 stars. (Ge 37:9,*10) Job 38:7 parallels “the morning stars” that joyfully cried out at earth’s founding with the angelic “sons of God.” The resurrected and exalted Jesus spoke of himself as “the bright morning star” and promised to give “the morning star” to his conquering followers, evidently indicating a sharing with him in his heavenly position and glory. (Re 22:16;*2:26,*28; compare 2Ti 2:12;*Re 20:6.) The seven “angels” of the congregations, to whom written messages are delivered, are symbolized by seven stars in the right hand of Christ. (Re 1:16,*20;*2:1;*3:1) “The angel of the abyss” called Abaddon is also represented by a star.—Re 9:1,*11; see ABADDON.

In the proverbial saying of Isaiah chapter*14, the boastful and ambitious king of Babylon (that is, the Babylonian dynasty of kings represented by Nebuchadnezzar), called the “shining one” (Heb., heh·lel′; “Lucifer,” KJ), is presented as seeking to lift up his throne “above the stars of God.” (Isa 14:4,*12, 13; see SHINING ONE.) The metaphor of a “star” is used in referring prophetically to the Davidic kings of Judah (Nu 24:17), and Bible history shows that the Babylonian dynasty for a time did rise above these Judean kings by conquest of Jerusalem. A similar prophecy in Daniel chapter*8 describes the small “horn” of some future power as trampling down certain stars of “the army of the heavens” and moving against the Prince of the army and his sanctuary (Da 8:9-13); while at Daniel chapter*12, by simile, those persons “having insight” and bringing others to righteousness are pictured as shining “like the stars” in “the time of the end.” (Da 12:3,*9,*10) By contrast, immoral deviators from truth are compared to “stars with no set course.”—Jude*13.

WOL

 

[Nada]

Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.

You need to learn the difference between literal and symbolic.When it describes the King of Tyre as a Cherub,it did not mean literally.It was speaking metaphorically.

Ezekiel also relates a number of visions in which symbolic cherubs of unusual description were seen. After speaking of them as “living creatures” (Eze 1:5-28), he later identifies them as “cherubs.” (Eze 9:3; 10:1-22; 11:22) In these pictorial visions the cherubs are intimately associated with the glorious personage of Jehovah and constantly attendant upon him.

In his prophetic book Ezekiel was also told to “lift up a dirge concerning the king of Tyre,” in which he calls the king a glorious covering cherub that was once “in Eden, the garden of God,” but who was stripped of his beauty and made as ashes upon the ground. “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: . . . ‘You are the anointed cherub that is covering, and I have set you. On the holy mountain of God you proved to be. In the midst of fiery stones you walked about. You were faultless in your ways from the day of your being created until unrighteousness was found in you. . . . I shall put you as profane out of the mountain of God, and I shall destroy you, O cherub that is covering [“O protecting cherub,” Vg].’”—Eze 28:11-19.

2. (pronounced ke′rub). A city in Babylonia from which certain exiles returned to Jerusalem in 537 B.C.E.; they were unable to trace their genealogy and therefore could not prove whether they were Israelites.—Ezr 2:59; Ne 7:61.


Cherub — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Many assume that this speaks of Satan the devil but are mistaken because they try to use human reasoning instead of godly wisdom.

READ THIS CAREFULLY.................

Ezekiel 28 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“‘In the pride of your heart
you say, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.

DID YOU GET THAT? it says The King of Tyre is a mortal

Satan is not a mortal.He is not a human being.Many people do not pay attention to the entire passage.They only read bits and pieces and try to make it what they want and not what is actually being said.

So we have Lucifer being called a man in Isaiah 14:16.....Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;"
And
Ezekiel 28: The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says:

“‘In the pride of your heart
you say, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.

IN BOTH PASSAGES BOTH ARE MEN.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Somebody shoot me. Please.

Angellous has read the thread and he's despondent.

I deserve some kind of reward for reading this - I choose mercy killing.

Thanks

 

[outhouse]

Somebody shoot me. Please.

Angellous has read the thread and he's despondent.

I deserve some kind of reward for reading this - I choose mercy killing.

Thanks

I chose to run and let the ignorance fester hoping it would pop.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.

Im sorry to tell you this brother but you are absolutely 100% incorrect and are interpreting these scriptures in a literal sense.First,you are wrong about King Nebuchadnezzar.It his dynasty that is being spoken of In Isaiah 14.
The entire chapter is judgment being passed upon the Babylonian Kingdom by God.If you read it in it's entirety, and not just some verses, you will see this.Nebuchadnezzar was told that he would rise to the heavens but he would fall.This can be confirmed in the book of Daniel.

Bible S., Let me break your three posts here.
No! what I see is your posting of material from the Watchtower site.
Yes, the Book of Daniel is true in its assessment of the history of the world events from the visions given by GOD to Daniel to the end of time.

GOD is an awesome GOD. And Jesus was correct in HIS portrayal of "Satan".

Jesus said to Peter(Luke 22:31), "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:"
Satan is a real being and many persons do mold/pattern their lives after Satan's characteristics.

Wasn't the serpent's(Satan's) lie to Eve--"Ye shalt be like gods"?
John 8:44, Jesus speaking, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

 

[Nada]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.


Bible S., Let me break your three posts here.
No! what I see is your posting of material from the Watchtower site.
Yes, the Book of Daniel is true in its assessment of the history of the world events from the visions given by GOD to Daniel to the end of time.

GOD is an awesome GOD. And Jesus was correct in HIS portrayal of "Satan".

Jesus said to Peter(Luke 22:31), "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:"
Satan is a real being and many persons do mold/pattern their lives after Satan's characteristics.

Wasn't the serpent's(Satan's) lie to Eve--"Ye shalt be like gods"?
John 8:44, Jesus speaking, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The fact of the matter is that you claimed that Lucifer is satan and you were incorrect.Plain and simple brother.I showed you using the KJV bible.This bible was published in 1611.This was over 200 years before the JW's.You are incorrect again.I also proved that the reference to the King of Tyre has absolutely nothing to do with satan either.

I showed you in both Isaiah and Ezekiel how it calls both Lucifer and the king of Tyre man.

 

[sincerly]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.


Bible S., Let me break your three posts here.
No! what I see is your posting of material from the Watchtower site.
Yes, the Book of Daniel is true in its assessment of the history of the world events from the visions given by GOD to Daniel to the end of time.

GOD is an awesome GOD. And Jesus was correct in HIS portrayal of "Satan".

Jesus said to Peter(Luke 22:31), "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:"
Satan is a real being and many persons do mold/pattern their lives after Satan's characteristics.

Wasn't the serpent's(Satan's) lie to Eve--"Ye shalt be like gods"?
John 8:44, Jesus speaking, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

The fact of the matter is that you claimed that Lucifer is satan and you were incorrect.Plain and simple brother.I showed you using the KJV bible.

This bible was published in 1611.This was over 200 years before the JW's.You are incorrect again.I also proved that the reference to the King of Tyre has absolutely nothing to do with satan either.

I showed you in both Isaiah and Ezekiel how it calls both Lucifer and the king of Tyre man.

Bible S., "the fact of the matter" is that you used the beliefs/comments/etc., of the "Governing Body" to interpret the KJV's verses.
Those stated characteristics of Satan were seen in both kings and GOD was using them to punish HIS backsliding children. That was the same as is seen with Pharaoh (Ex.19:16), "And in very deed for this cause have I raised thee up, for to shew in thee my power; and that my name may be declared throughout all the earth."(Arrogance/defiance/hardness of heart) are characteristics of Satan as well.

We are off topic. it is your choice to believe the "governing body" or Jesus and the Scriptures. Satan is a real adversary and those characteristics are his.

Jesus was, as the scriptures foretold, the promised Resurrection and the life from the penalty of death---the "first born" to newness of Life.

 

[Nada]

Originally Posted by sincerly View Post
Bible S., Isaiah wrote prophetically concerning Nebuchadnezzar and the adversary that was leading him. King Neb. was no light bearer, but of spiritual darkness. It was Daniel who showed Neb. the True GOD and events to the end of time.
Neb. was never in heaven to fall from heaven, but Jesus stated HE saw Satan fall from heaven(cast out---Luke 10:18)
Satan has many names(not just titles) Jesus informed John of them in Rev.12:7-17 ,"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

Ezek.28:12-16, neither was king Tyrus ever in heaven or a covering cherub, but Satan was and like King Neb. both had attributes of Satan who lead them.
the fate of the wicked and those who lead them is ultimately seen in Mal.4:1-3, "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts."

"Ashes" is NOT eternal living in torment. The "Punishment" has an end. The LORD GOD IS LOVING AND MERCIFUL AS WELL AS JUST.



Bible S., Let me break your three posts here.
No! what I see is your posting of material from the Watchtower site.
Yes, the Book of Daniel is true in its assessment of the history of the world events from the visions given by GOD to Daniel to the end of time.

GOD is an awesome GOD. And Jesus was correct in HIS portrayal of "Satan".

Jesus said to Peter(Luke 22:31), "And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:"
Satan is a real being and many persons do mold/pattern their lives after Satan's characteristics.

Wasn't the serpent's(Satan's) lie to Eve--"Ye shalt be like gods"?
John 8:44, Jesus speaking, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

What??????????

 

[Muffled]

Adam in Genesis?

I believe It wasn't Adam and that God never says who it was.

 

[Muffled]

When God was creating mankind in the Garden of Eden, God was speaking to someone when He said this,"Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness," Gen 1:26 Adam was not God's first creation. Do you know who it was that God was speaking to? It was Jesus in his pre human existence.

:yes:

I believe this is pure speculation lacking any evidence to support it.

I don't believe I do but both the Norse myths and Greek myths say "man" was created by the gods so I would say it makes sense that God is speakig to the gods.

I believe if there is a resemblance to any racial group, the Adamic race looks a bit Greek.

 

[Muffled]

Thats is incorrect and based on human understanding.

I believe this is correct as scripture indicates.