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First cause of the universe.

Polymath257

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Wildswanderer said:
Oh come on don't be a wimp... jump off the Cliff.
You can't know if you don't take the leap into faith. This applies to so many things in life... You can never ever fall in love if you don't take the leap. Staying in the safe space is it sure way too stagnation.
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Sounds like the words of a tempter.

No, falling in love is NOT a leap of faith: it is a recognition of what already exists in my emotions. I know the person, I learn how they react, and I see how I react to them.

Do the research, understand the risks, learn what can be learned. Then go outside prepared. Jumping out of an airplane because someone told you it is safe without knowing the conditions under which it is safe is simply being foolhardy.

But what you are advocating isn't even that. You seem to think that belief is a choice. It isn't. It is a consequence of gathering evidence and seeing what it points to.

Acting like you believe is not belief. Belief only comes from being convinced.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
Polymath257 said:
I happen to disagree.

I cannot convince myself that the sky is purple. I cannot convince myself that failure to breath is healthy. This is not a matter of choice.
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One choice leads to another. This is how people get convinced to leave their religion or to join a new one. It's a progression. That can be good or bad depending on what you are progressing into. For example a prominent professor was an atheist, now he's a theist. This didn't happen in a moment....there was a progress of reading what Jesus said and agreeing with much of it until he finally finds one day that he believes Jesus is God.
On the down side, there's people who are convinced by teachers that thier religion is on Shakey ground. They don't immediately abandon it in most cases, but begin to accept little things like evolution being logical. Eventually they find they no longer believe in the God they once did.
Or, for example, I have people in my extended family who started into conspiracy theories, who started to accept some of them, until now they are into aliens talking to us and the power of crystals.
Both truth and error can slowly alter a person's perception of reality until they are very different people.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
"Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”
If I gave freely and God failed to supply my basic needs it would be reason to doubt his promises.
That's not the prosperity gospel BTW...I'm talking only needs, anything else is just a bonus.
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So good christians currently residing in Ukraine are evidence that god doesn't exist, I guess?
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Policy said:
Therefore the millions who have given freely, then failed to have their basic needs met should not believe in your god.
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No no....

They would be a disproval of his god.
It's supposedly a TEST after all.

So if the test fails, then the thing that made the prediction has been disproven.

So if there are millions who have given freely and then failed to have their basic needs met... then that would be a disproval of the bible.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
Putting God to the test in that manner isn't biblical. God isn't a genie in a bottle we pull out when we want him.
Everyone has to ask for him themselves. He doesn't fail to reward faith.
By faith we find him...if you refuse to put your faith in him I can't make him real to you.
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Then what you propose as being a "test" isn't a test at all.

Try again.
 
TagliatelliMonster

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Wildswanderer said:
It absolutely is a choice. Everything is.
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I challenge you to honestly "choose", right here, right now... that Thor is god and that thunder is the result of him slamming his hammer on an anvil.

And I mean sincerely believe it.
To the point that you would pass a lie detector test when asked "do you believe Thor is a god and that thunder is the result of him slamming his hammer?".

Give me a break.
 
W

Wildswanderer

Veteran Member
TagliatelliMonster said:
I challenge you to honestly "choose", right here, right now... that Thor is god and that thunder is the result of him slamming his hammer on an anvil.

And I mean sincerely believe it.
To the point that you would pass a lie detector test when asked "do you believe Thor is a god and that thunder is the result of him slamming his hammer?".

Give me a break.
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I already explained that little choices lead to bigger choices. If I chose to open my mind to myth, which I don't, I could get there eventually.
 
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