I don't need to.
I'm not the one making claims with certainty.
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First person shooter video games
- Thread starter We Never Know
- Start date
I'm not the one making claims with certainty.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I have been. Something must be lost on me. It happens.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You do when a counter with citations is presented. I did my part. A claim was made, I countered the claim (which wasn't a good one being about video game violence but posting a study about video game addiction), furnished supporting evidence and you're making no real effort to support this faith-based hypothesis that ignores what science has shown us.
You've only argued that the issue is settled,
& no new research will ever change your belief.
Yet there are so many indicators that suggest
you could be wrong, eg, military using video
games to train soldiers, other studies, relative
newness of great realism.
You have too much faith.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Was that really necessary?
Separate vein @Aštra’el I'm guessing that's a no on being able to classify Cyberpunk 2077?
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I would have thought you knew me better than that.
But, it is a fact that Japan has media far more violent and deprived than America and yet they have a very low crime rate. So it's not likely any research will show violent media makes people violent. A bunch of countries have the same, or worse, violence in their media. But America is an outlier, as it is with many things (like the high incarceration rate).
I've played it. It's probably best described as an open-world first-person ARPG set in a dystopian late stage Capitalist future that h as fully gone off the rails in terms of viewing humans as commodity objects. I prefer Shadowrun over Cyberpunk as a setting, but that's neither here nor there.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Bingo. The perspective designation of "First Person Shooter" has become a bit outdated as games have progressed, but it's stuck around despite a much broader scope of application. Every game has a number of classification points. For Cyberpunk 2077, this would be:
Perspective: First-Person Shooter (FPS)
Gamestyle: Roleplaying Game (RPG) (often with an addition of nationality, e.g. J-RPG for Japanese Roleplaying Games such as Final Fantasy)
Genre: Science-Fiction / Futuristic Dystopia / Cyberpunk
The Elder Scrolls games are Fantasy FPS-RPG games, with a Third-Person Perspective option (though the games' play-spaces are not designed with this in mind). Far Cry: Primal is a Science-Fiction FPS-Combat/Survival game. Halo a Science-Fiction FPS Arena-style Combat game. Etc, etc.
Returning to where this came from; yes, there are FPS games out there without guns.
Heyo
Veteran Member
Comparing games to tobacco is valid but in this context the contrast is guns. Gun advocates (other than you) are in denial about any possibility of deleterious effects and oppose any measures that could make the US safer through stricter gun laws. (Like those you suggested.) Therefore they point their fingers at any other possible cause - games being one of them. Not wanting to be used as scapegoats, gamers deny any responsibility. As long as the gun lobby isn't willing to play fair, I don't see why the gamers should.
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
Action RPG.
ARPG is my favorite genre. Fallout 3, Fallout: New Vegas, Dark Souls 1/2/3, Elden Ring, Mass Effect 1/2/3, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim…
FPS are games like Halo, Destiny, and Doom. My favorite one is currently Destiny 2.
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The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
It was laid out quite clearly above; to cut to it you're conflating perspective, genre, and playstyle. ARPG is the playstyle, not the perspective. The perspective is FPS. Of the games you listed:
Game - Perspective/Playstyle
Fallout 3 - FPS/ARPG
Fallout: New Vegas - FPS/ARPG
Dark Souls 1/2/3 - TPS/ARPG
Elden Ring - TPS/ARPG
Mass Effect 1/2/3 - TPS/ARPG
Elder Scrolls IV/V - FPS(TPS)/ARPG
Halo - FPS(TPS)/Arena Combat
Destiny - FPS(TPS)/ARPG
DOOM - FPS/Arena Combat
It's interesting that you whiddle Cyberpunk 2077 down to simply an ARPG (especially considering that you are in First Person for literally everything outside of the option while driving vehicles to be Third-Person), yet ignore the very same RPG elements to games like Destiny and Destiny 2. Games that allow you to customize and become your character, as well as interactive aesthetic customization beyond that for your weapons, clothing and armor, ships and speeders.
It's also interesting that you're so keen to limit FPS games to games that have a stronger focus on guns fired from a first person perspective... when that's literally most of Cyberpunk's combat. The game even has a trophy wall in your various apartment's for you to show off your unique guns acquired throughout the game.
Nitpicking FPS to mean only that it applies to when a gun is being fired (Is Halo and Destiny then not an FPS when you're driving a vehicle and using swords?) is akin to trying to make the argument that because you're playing on a phone screen and it doesn't actually have joysticks, Halo: Spartan Strike cannot be classified as a Dual-Stick Isometric Shooter. Which it is. The term FPS has outgrown Doom and Wulfenstein, and has long since applied to more than games with guns. Maybe I'll start a petition to update the terms to change "shooter" to "perspective" but in short, I do not claim to be a spokesperson for my side of the gaming community (is that better?), but you cannot defensibly say that I know nothing about video games.
While I agree that genre complexity has evolved, don't mistake my observation that CP2077 is from the first -person perspective to classifying it as an FPS.
I would not classify CP2077 (much less Elder Scrolls games) as an FPS at all. The "S" in "shooter" means the primary focus of the game is shooting with guns (or long range weapons if you want to be more generous). Call of Duty. Halo. Borderlands. Those are FPS games.
I go with your postos.
Certainly, one can't draw certain conclusions by
comparing a rigid society like Japan with the
tables-ladders-chairs match of Ameristan.
Dubious evidence.
I'll continue to sit back & watch
without a horse in this race.
Speaking of which...
I recommend watching "Slow Horses".
(A Brit spy show with violence & intrigue.)
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Respectfully, this is where we disagree then. With the increased complexity in games, as I stated above FPS has expanded beyond guns being the point of focus, and more to the First-Person action perspective with guns and/or other weapons. While I don't think it's nearly inclusive of all games, on this list of FPS games, while admittedly most involve guns, you'll find such titles like Chronicles of Riddick which was heavy on hand-to-hand bladed combat, Cyberpunk 2077, Dead Island which featured a lot of crafted blade weapons to fight zombies, Dishonored and Dishonored 2 in which guns are exceptionally rare, instead focusing on blades and arcane powers, and even Super 3D Noah's Ark.
And the reason I say that it's not inclusive of all FPS games enough is that while it doesn't have any of The Elder Scrolls on there, it does have games like Warhammer: Vermintide and Witchaven, which are of the same relative genre of TES and focuses on medieval weapons and spells.
Just as I favor the right to own guns,
I also favor the right to play violent video games.
With an open mind, we must consider the value
& problems associated with both.
Aštra’el
Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
Relax. I am not saying this. You are obviously passionate about them, as many of us are.
What you like to do in Skyrim- toggling into first person and slaying with a bow- does not make it a First Person Shooter. I can do that exact thing in Minecraft. Neither of them are FPS. Why not? It’s not their most defining quality. You are confusing the ability to toggle into a first person perspective- while performing ranged combat- with being an FPS.
Fallout 3 is more understandable. Most players spend much of the game roaming around slaying things with a variety of guns, often in first person perspective. However… the RPG elements are far more defining. Yes, you can spec into guns… or you can level into explosives, or melee… or even stealth, and bypass most combat altogether. You can even remain in 3rd person every time you go into combat. In FPS, you don’t get that freedom. They are first and foremost, shooters- in first person- even if you can temporarily go into third person with the sword (like Destiny) or briefly use vehicles in combat (like Halo). It always reverts to shooting in first person perspective, and the core gameplay completely revolves around that.
Yes. Genres can be blended. RPGs with a heavy focus on non-turn based combat, often with strong action/ adventure or FPS elements… often end up being classified as action RPGs. Destiny 2 incorporates MMO elements, like raids… but it’s still a First Person Shooter. It is its most defining quality.
I’m not trying to be a genre nazi here, and I do not wish to argue about this forever. It just bewildered me that anyone would describe Elder Scrolls games as “First Person Shooters”. Yes, genres can be blended to create something extraordinary. A game might include some mechanics more typical of other genres. Or, a game might even fit multiple labels at once. Destiny 2 is an FPS, but it is also described as a “looter shooter”. The Dark Souls games are action RPGs, with heavy focus on combat and boss fights. Yet, they are also described as Metroidvanias (a term gamers use to describe games like Super Metroid and Castlevania: Symphony of the Night)… probably the best examples of them in 3D so far.
Anyway… believe what you want. Just expect some very mixed reactions, when you describe Elder Scrolls as FPS games.
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Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
You don't have to have a horse in the race to agree with research.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
No, that's not what's happening there. Truth be told I would much rather play Skyrim as a TPS. But the game is not built like that. Third-person perspective is an option, yes, but the game is built with a first-person perspective in mind. The games start you in first-person, the entire tutorial is in first-person, and you don't even get the option to switch to a third-person perspective until the tutorial is done. And again, even then the TPS functionality in TES and Fallout games are notoriously clunky and unwieldy.
The core gameplay of TES and Fallout center on first-person perspective. Weapon use - both projectile and melee - is designed around a first-person perspective. And as games like Warhammer: Vermintide, Witchaven, and the Dishonored titles rely more on magic and medieval weaponry (Dishonored does have pistols, yet they are rare) yet are still classified as FPS games, there is no logical argument as to why that would disqualify The Elder Scrolls or Fallout games from being FPS games.
Again, you're confusing Perspective with Playstyle. As well with the Fallout games, it is entirely arguable that the RPG elements (again, playstyle) are not more defining than getting power armor, a nuke launcher, and tromping around a post-apocalyptic nuclear wasteland.
Firstly yes, you do get customization options in many FPS titles. Games like Dead Island let you fully customize and upgrade your weapons - many of which are melee, and which are mechanically advantageous - and games like Dishonored heavily rely on character customization in regards to powers. Even games that are heavily gun-reliant like Borderlands have in-depth customization trees for your character abilities, as well as character customization options.
Because it is. In the same way that Warhammer: Vermintide and Cyberpunk 2077 are also FPS games; it doesn't matter if it's spells and arrows or quickhacks being shot, and many FPS titles notably feature melee weapons along side projectiles.
The perspective of the game is what determines FPS versus TPS, and even that's getting blurry to where the terms are even further outdated, and it must be considered what the primary perspective focus is. Reference the TPS option for TES and Fallout, as well as third-person driving in Cyberpunk 2077 (optional) and Halo, as well as TPS viewpoint when wielding turrets in Halo 3 onward.
With conflicting & insufficient current research,
I'll wait for the dust to settle. You're welcome
to have your mind mad up though.
Respectfully you sound like your mind is made up.
Lambasting the apparent turmoil games will cause the youth and their apparent blindness to the phenomenon???
If the current research balks at such a conclusion, and it apparently has, according to all known modern verified studies then why wait for the doomsday prediction to be verified?
Sounds like creationists balking at evolutionary research if I’m benign honest. The science has come back with the results for nigh on 20 years now and counting. Come on already, boomer
Get with the times already.
The science says no and has done so over and over again. Surely you’re not against science are you?
Are you????
Besides the approaching tech of VR is sure to cause far more problems in society that you can shake your fist and throw bacon at
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