First person shooter video games

[Shadow Wolf]

I don't recall any links proving^demonstrating your claim.
One even suggested otherwise.

They're there. I furnished them.
And fixed it, by the way.

You young whippersnappers & yer games,
believing with too much faith the there are
no deleterious consequences.

No, it's going with what science says (I'm more into games requiring brain power). These are what I posted previously.
Does playing violent video games cause aggression? A longitudinal intervention study | Molecular Psychiatry

The present results thus provide strong evidence against the frequently debated negative effects of playing violent video games in adults and will therefore help to communicate a more realistic scientific perspective on the effects of violent video gaming.

Video gamers' aggression linked to frustration, not violent content

But a new study shows hostile behavior is linked to gamers’ experiences of failure and frustration during play—not to a game’s violent content.

Study Finds No Evidence That More Violent, Difficult Video Games Spur Aggression

The findings, published in Psychological Science, provide no evidence that either violent or difficult content intensifies players’ aggression toward others.

 

[Revoltingest]

They're there. I furnished them.
And fixed it, by the way.

No, it's going with what science says (I'm more into games requiring brain power). These are what I posted previously.
Does playing violent video games cause aggression? A longitudinal intervention study | Molecular Psychiatry

Video gamers' aggression linked to frustration, not violent content

Study Finds No Evidence That More Violent, Difficult Video Games Spur Aggression

Strong youz guyz are in your belief.
I expect some clarity in a couple decades.

 

[Heyo]

I just realised even when asked a few times, no one has yet answered....

Isn't the soul purpose of FPS games to use guns to kill as many people as needed/possible, but that it is also for the player to get a somewhat virtual view of using guns to kill many people?

The purpose of FPS games is to point your mouse pointer at an assembly of polygons and click as fast as you can. It somewhat trains hand-eye coordination. No guns involved, nobody gets hurt.
If you want to learn how to kill as many people as possible you'd at first have to get a gun. Without a gun you can't kill people with a gun, no matter how often you moved your mouse pointer.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Strong youz guyz are in your belief.
I expect some clarity in a couple decades.

We have a few decades of research now. If these games made people violent we'd definitely see the studies confirming this and not showing the opposite, and we'd especially see an increase in violence in places like Canada, Japan, England and Norway. But we don't and because we don't the hypothesis that violent video games makes people violent doesn't have anything to stand on.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Okay, so then you're acknowledging that the points you brought up aren't actually relevant to anything the rest of us are talking about. Kind of begs the question; why bring them up then?

Absolutely not. That thing I asked you not to do, right in this very quote? You're doing it.

You asked why and how I was using "scapegoat". I gave you an answer. Outside of my finger being pointed directly at Conservative politicians and TV personalities jumping on the anti-video game bandwagon, the only other times I have used that word is in this current vein of inquiry. So you pointing to the people in this thread, demanding to know if I'm saying they're Conservatives, is wholly irrelevant. I'm going to make an analogy: It's like an Evangelical source starting the "Satanic Panic" around Dungeons & Dragons, and then in 2020 a non-Christian soccer mom raises a storm about how D&D is a cult and it's encouraging kids to sacrifice babies or some nonsense. The reply is given of "Oh, no that was just some nonsense started by Evangelicals in the 80's, it's not actually what's going on there." And then someone in your line of thought accuses that they're not addressing her points and assuming she's an Evangelical.

It doesn't matter who here is or isn't a Conservative, it is infamously a Conservative talking point. The fact remains that every single time there's a mass shooting from some 20-something white kid, the gaming community braces for Tucker Carlson and his ilk (previously it was Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly) to start screaming vague accusations. It does matter quite a bit that the conversation has progressed significantly since I pointed to Conservatives in regards to this notion as a whole (no, this is not me saying that point is irrelevant), and I'd be just tickled to hear any thoughts on quite literally anything else that I've said against the notion that FPS video games promote and instill violence, rather than two statements from the very beginning of the thread.

Well the first one cited in this thread was from Harvard.

And I'm going to quote @Debater Slayer here: "The Harvard article is unrelated to the thread title, since it's about gaming addiction (which is unhealthy regardless of age) rather than the specific type of games being played. It's also worded tentatively due to the lack of sufficient evidence for some of the correlations and concerns mentioned therein."

And he's right. That "article" comes to us from Peter Grinspoon, MD, a medicinal marijuana specialist, discussing the physical and psychological effects of addiction in relation to video games.

Next one was from the APA, the American Psychological Association.

Citing a study done by Craig A. Anderson, Ph.D., who was funded by the National Institute on Media and the Family. The same organization that made the wild claim that video games were promoting cannibalism in the form of zombie-related games, and in 2005 received a "failing" rating by the ESRB, citing inaccuracies, incomplete and misleading statements, omission of material facts, flawed research, and elevating its political and media agenda over their stated concerns for consumer welfare.

The next article was citing a study lead by "a social psychologist at Dartmouth College . . . the study team pooled data from 24 previous studies data from 24 previous studies".

A study that was almost immediately called into question. "In the Dartmouth study, the authors conducted a meta-analysis of studies of youth to see to what degree violent video games contributed to physical aggression. When most people hear that researchers investigated something like “overt physical aggression” they might assume they examined things like actual physical aggression – aggravated assaults, fights, or even homicides. However, in the meta-analysis they focused on studies of youths self-reports of behaviors or thoughts which most people would not necessarily consider to be particularly dangerous. For example, numerous studies included in their analysis examined responses to items such as 'I have become so mad that I have broken things' and 'If I have to resort to violence to protect my rights, I will.' "

That rebuttal even goes on to note that "Even when violent video games like Grand Theft Auto are released there are observable decreases in homicides and assaults. Such findings have been replicated by criminologists, psychologists, and economists at different universities while taking into account numerous potential other variables."

So an article that's completely irrelevant to video games and violence, a study done with heavy political bias, and a study that misrepresented the findings and was statistically rebutted very shortly after being published.

I think "inspire" is the wrong word. I think it's more that these games normalize the action of pointing a weapon at someone and pulling a trigger.

"Someone" being...? At best you'd have an argument for violence against innocents from games like GTA, yet even that doesn't normalize it, and rather punishes that kind of behavior even in-game by invoking a response by law enforcement. Games like Call of Duty pit you against enemy combatants and international terrorists, while games like DOOM have you fighting demons and games like Halo have you fighting aliens.

Hardly what I would call "immersive". If someone is unable to discern reality from the portrayed events of fiction and fantasy, then that is flatly a fault on the individual, not the game itself.

Depends on which part of it were talking about. The pointing the barrel at someone and pulling the trigger part is obviously there.

Pointing while not aiming whatsoever. Real life doesn't have a reticule. And even the mechanics of Aim Down Sight (ADS) are wildly unrealistic as trying to fire a gun that way is going to result in a broken nose and a serious concussion, regardless if you actually hit anything.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Depends on which part of it were talking about. The pointing the barrel at someone and pulling the trigger part is obviously there.

Video games don't reflect what it's like to shoot a gun. I've never played a game where shooting a gun is like shooting a real gun, and I've never fired a real gun and have been reminded of shooting a video game gun. And not only that healthy adults can discern between fantasy and reality, and while they may feel nothing using a a digital gun that just goes bang to eliminate a target of pixels, it's a different story when it's a real gun and real violence.

 

[Quagmire]

Video games don't reflect what it's like to shoot a gun.

Depends on which part of 'it' were talking about. The pointing the barrel at someone and pulling the trigger part is obviously there.

(Please don't quote my posts unless you're planning on at least sort-of responding to something that I said)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Depends on which part of 'it' were talking about. The pointing the barrel at someone and pulling the trigger part is obviously there.

No, it's not. You point pixels at pixels. There is a worlds difference between that and drawing a gun and pointing it at someone. Likewise, a threat of gun violence in a video game is meaningless outside of the game. But a threat of gun violence in real life? I've been there and it's scary. There is no amount of fake, digital Nazis and demons and aliens and others where you press a few buttons to take care of that can capture real violence or prepare you for it. If all you've done is video gaming, you are in for a big surprise the first time you pick up a gun to shoot it because they don't work like they do in video games or movies.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No, it's not. You point pixels at pixels. There is a worlds difference between that and drawing a gun and pointing it at someone. Likewise, a threat of gun violence in a video game is meaningless outside of the game. But a threat of gun violence in real life? I've been there and it's scary. There is no amount of fake, digital Nazis and demons and aliens and others where you press a few buttons to take care of that can capture real violence or prepare you for it. If all you've done is video gaming, you are in for a big surprise the first time you pick up a gun to shoot it because they don't work like they do in video games or movies.

I think that might depend on the realism of the game. When I was in the army, I realized I actually knew most of the steps to reload an AK-47 when they handed me one for the first time. That was because of seeing it done in video games.

 

[Quagmire]

No, it's not. You point pixels at pixels.

So basically what you're saying is, video games aren't real.

Go on, this is intriguing.

There is a worlds difference between that and drawing a gun and pointing it at someone.

Which must be why nobody plays those games. They're not real enough.

Likewise, a threat of gun violence in a video game is meaningless outside of the game.

Good to know. I can stop diving under the desk now

But a threat of gun violence in real life? I've been there and it's scary.

Me too. Been shot at too. More than once.

And for the most part it wasn't really scary until the adrenaline wore off.

There is no amount of fake, digital Nazis and demons and aliens and others where you press a few buttons to take care of that can capture real violence or prepare you for it.

I don't think that's what those games are intended for.

If all you've done is video gaming, you are in for a big surprise the first time you pick up a gun to shoot it because they don't work like they do in video games or movies.

It's been a while, but I bet I could still make you my ***** on a gun range.

Now that we've determined that video games aren't real, please let me know if you want to discuss any of the points I actually brought up.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Now that we've determined that video games aren't real, please let me know if you want to discuss any of the points I actually brought up.

I have been, and that is highlighting video games are not like real life and they don't capture or reflect real life. Pressing 5 to switch out your current "gun" for a more powerful one and pressing a mouse button to mow down a room full of demonically possessed soldiers will never compare to drawing a real gun, pointing it at a real person and shooting a real bullet with the intent to cause real harm.
Amd this whole thread has mentioned the OP study doesn't really work for the topic because the study is about gaming addiction, and addiction is an illness. Studies from over 20 years ago have been challenged with studies no more than a few years old.

It's been a while, but I bet I could still make you my ***** on a gun range.

Can you shoot from both sides?

 

[Curious George]

For what it’s worth chat gpt says:

Gaming can have both positive and negative impacts on the brain, depending on the type and frequency of gaming, as well as the individual characteristics of the person.

Positive impacts of gaming on the brain can include:

• Improved cognitive abilities: Certain types of games, such as puzzle and strategy games, can help improve cognitive abilities such as attention, problem-solving, and spatial awareness.
  
  
• Enhanced multitasking skills: Many games require players to multitask, which can help improve the player's ability to multitask in real life.
  
  
• Increased creativity: Games that allow for open-ended exploration and problem-solving can stimulate creativity and imagination.
  

Negative impacts of gaming on the brain can include:

• Addiction: Gaming addiction is a recognized condition, and excessive gaming can interfere with daily life activities and relationships.
  
  
• Decreased attention span: Continuous exposure to fast-paced and stimulating games can lead to decreased attention span, making it harder to focus on other tasks.
  
  
• Aggression: Some violent games have been linked to an increase in aggressive behavior and a decrease in pro-social behavior.
  

It's important to keep in mind that while some studies have shown negative impacts of gaming, others have shown no such link. The effects of gaming on the brain can vary greatly from person to person, and it's essential to find a balance in gaming habits.

 

[Aštra’el]

The fact remains that every single time there's a mass shooting from some 20-something white kid, the gaming community braces for Tucker Carlson and his ilk (previously it was Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly) to start screaming vague accusations.

No. This is not a “fact” at all, it’s just your hatred and paranoia of Conservatives.

I mean it’s not like you speak for the “gaming community” (of which there are many). If we all had a spokesperson, I doubt it would be someone who does not even understand the difference between an RPG and an FPS. The “fact” is… we are a wildly diverse group of people. Yeah. Many gamers love Trump, and DeSantis, and Tucker Carlson. So what. Many gamers love CNN, TYT, and blm. So what. Many gamers want nothing at all to do with politics. So what.

Gaming lets us escape from the real world and adventure away in digital fantasy realms. Our politics don’t matter there. I’d rather just relax and chill when gaming and forget about everyone else’s problems… and so do many others. The media- Left or Right- can say what they like about it. Who really cares?

 

[Quagmire]

I have been,

Not even sort of.

Let me know If you ever want to have an actual conversation about this instead of whatever this is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not even sort of.

Let me know If you ever want to have an actual conversation about this instead of whatever this is.

I've been in a situation where someone threatened gun violence. In real life, where it matters, where there are consequences, and where it is scary. Being under threat of gunfire in a video game is absolutely nothing like the real thing.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

No. This is not a “fact” at all,

When even Kotaku reports on incessant conservative outcry against video games with exasperation, and Fox pundits are lampooned in video games due to their crusade-like obsession with banning video games, yeah it is a pretty strong "fact of the matter".
.

If we all had a spokesperson, I doubt it would be someone who does not even understand the difference between an RPG and an FPS.

I'm still waiting for you to classify Cyberpunk 2077. Is this game an FPS or an RPG?

 

[Quagmire]

I've been in a situation where someone threatened gun violence. In real life, where it matters, where there are consequences, and where it is scary. Being under threat of gunfire in a video game is absolutely nothing like the real thing.

You don't really read my posts, do you.

 

[Revoltingest]

We have a few decades of research now. If these games made people violent we'd definitely see the studies confirming this and not showing the opposite, and we'd especially see an increase in violence in places like Canada, Japan, England and Norway. But we don't and because we don't the hypothesis that violent video games makes people violent doesn't have anything to stand on.

Games have improved in their realism. I'd expect
that older research wouldn't apply to newer games.
Gamers are in denial about any possibility of
deleterious effects. Just like smokers were sure
tobacco wasn't harmful....even doctors smoked.

 

[Quagmire]

Absolutely not. That thing I asked you not to do, right in this very quote? You're doing it.

What? You mean trying to reason with you?

No worries, I'm done now.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Games have improved in their realism. I'd expect
that older research wouldn't apply to newer games.
Gamers are in denial about any possibility of
deleterious effects. Just like smokers were sure
tobacco wasn't harmful....even doctors smoked.

You've cited nothing. I've cited current research. And as I said with tobacco, in this very thread, over time the facts became clear and known. With video games, even with time and more realistic graphics the research is not rendering results to suggest violent games people violent.