Flat Earth in the Holy Bible!

[Nada]

This will turn into a debate if I keep going, but I will say one last thing: What seems apparent may not actually be apparent. And assumptions can be correct but they can just as easily be wrong. We have no idea what the authors of Bible were thinking of, we have no idea what was lost in translation from the Hebrew and The ancient Greek originals.

Of course we have an idea of what they were thinking.

 

[TashaN]

Thank you all for your comments. I'm still puzzled though. If it is not that easy to draw such a firm conclusion about earth being flat then why did the early church strongly believed in it?

 

[roger1440]

It would not have served any purpose to mention the world is flat. No one in the right mind would have thought otherwise. Why mention something everyone already believes?

 

[RedDragon94]

It would not have served any purpose to mention the world is flat. No one in the right mind would have thought otherwise. Why mention something everyone already believes?

What does this tell me about scripture? It was written from a human perspective.

 

[Ouroboros]

This will turn into a debate if I keep going, but I will say one last thing: What seems apparent may not actually be apparent. And assumptions can be correct but they can just as easily be wrong. We have no idea what the authors of Bible were thinking of, we have no idea what was lost in translation from the Hebrew and The ancient Greek originals.

The book of Enoch (which is quoted or reference in some other Bible books, Jude 1 or something) is strongly suggesting a flat Earth. It can be used to study what people thought at that time about the shape of Earth. In Enoch 18:6, 9, and 10, he sees the end of Earth. There are many things in Enoch strongly suggesting a flat Earth, so we can safely assume that it wasn't uncommon. And considering that it's good enough

 

[Gerald Kelleher]

What's interesting is that early Church founders could see this and understand not to read the Bible literally or as a history/science book, but today we have these fundamentalist movements pushing the idea that literalism is the true and original form of belief.

Ah Augustine, one of his more interesting quotes comes through Galileo when it comes to how believers and unbelievers approach the books of the Bible and still does to this day -

"If anyone shall set the authority of Holy Writ against clear and manifest reason, he who does this knows not what he has undertaken; for he opposes to the truth not the meaning of the Bible, which is
beyond his comprehension, but rather his own interpretation, not what is in the Bible, but what he has found in himself and imagines to be there." St Augustine

The vast majority of scientists in the 21st century don't promote a flat Earth but they come as close as humanly and intellectually possible in what is a remarkable phenomenon which never ceases to amaze me for all the wrong reasons -

Period of Rotation of the Earth

Going back to Augustine, he made the following comments based on queries from his fellow Christians regarding this observation -

"Some of the brethren raise a question concerning the motion of heaven, whether it is fixed or moved. If it is moved, they say, how is it a firmament? If it stands still, how do these stars which are held fixed in it go round from east to west, the more northerly performing shorter circuits near the pole, so that the heaven (if there is another pole unknown to us) may seem to revolve upon some axis, or (if there is no other pole) may be thought to move as a discus? To these men I reply that it would require many subtle and profound reasonings to find out which of these things is actually so; but to undertake this and discuss it is consistent neither with my leisure nor with the duty of those whom I desire to instruct in essential matters more directly conducing to their salvation and to the benefit of the holy Church." St Augustine

The idiots in the late 17th century jumped at a false conclusion using the newly emerged accurate clocks and everyone today is stuck with the value for rotation that doesn't reflect a round and rotating Earth. So, unlike the early Christians there is no curiosity about the Earth let alone the facts of a round Earth.

 

[roger1440]

What does this tell me about scripture? It was written from a human perspective.

I don’t know what it tells you, but it tells me it’s not a geography book. But then again, I already knew that before I ever read it.

 

[RedDragon94]

I don’t know what it tells you, but it tells me it’s not a geography book. But then again, I already knew that before I ever read it.

I think that if it doesn't reveal the truth in all areas its not inerrant. And if its not inerrant how can it be God breathed? This would make the Bible a purely human document with mere human insights into things like the morality and the divine (if there is one).

 

[Jumi]

I know many people mock Christianity for believing that earth is flat but i'm asking this because i'm really considering it might actually be correct.

What made you consider possibility of the Earth being flat? It makes no sense unless everything is a lie, staged by hundreds of millions of people.

 

[Parsimony]

What made you consider possibility of the Earth being flat? It makes no sense unless everything is a lie, staged by hundreds of millions of people.

Perhaps what she meant wasn't that she is considering that the Earth might actually be flat, but rather that she is considering that the perception of Christians accepting a flat Earth is true?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Thank you all for your comments. I'm still puzzled though. If it is not that easy to draw such a firm conclusion about earth being flat then why did the early church strongly believed in it?

It became a political issue. When the church began to sponsor kings, those kings began to desire the Church's official blessing. Then the kings (and their nobles) wanted a church that could not make mistakes. The kings began to exert influence, choosing bishops and the leaders of the church. The church became part of the European king's claim to divine authority. Because of that the church could not be allowed to change its mind about issues. The church lost its autonomy.

 

[Jumi]

Perhaps what she meant wasn't that she is considering that the Earth might actually be flat, but rather that she is considering that the perception of Christians accepting a flat Earth is true?

I see, I accept I may have been wrong. There certainly are&were Christians who wanted the flat earth to be true.

 

[ChristineES]

Thank you all for your comments. I'm still puzzled though. If it is not that easy to draw such a firm conclusion about earth being flat then why did the early church strongly believed in it?

They read it into it, just like some people still do and some don't (among Christians) Not all of them saw it, but some did. People knew the earth was round, even before Columbus.
Just because someone reads something into something else or sees something that may or may not be insinuated does not mean that is what the authors had in mind.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes the bible does describe a flat earth, not a spherical one. The hebrew word for a disc, or coin shape (chug, 'to make a circle') was used as opposed to the hebrew word for ball (dur).
Apologists often claim that there is no hebrew word for sphere, but that is a deception.

 

[Bunyip]

Nothing I am aware of. Instead I read:

He stretches out the northern sky (Lit., "the north") over empty space, (Lit., "emptiness.")
Suspending the earth upon nothing;
- Job 26:7

and

There is One who dwells above the circle (or "sphere.") of the earth,
And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers.
He is stretching out the heavens like a fine gauze,
And he spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
- Isaiah 40:22

Circles and spheres are different. The hebrew word 'Chug' means circle, not sphere.

 

[TashaN]

Yes the bible does describe a flat earth, not a spherical one. The hebrew word for a disc, or coin shape (chug, 'to make a circle') was used as opposed to the hebrew word for ball (dur).
Apologists often claim that there is no hebrew word for sphere, but that is a deception.

Do you have an example of verses from the bible where it mention a circle rather than a sphere?

 

[Kolibri]

Circles and spheres are different. The hebrew word 'Chug' means circle, not sphere.

Even if this is merely a circle, it still accurately describes it with a circumference and when you look at the way the galaxies are strung together, it really does look like a "fine gauze". Something that would not be readily apparent from the 3000 or so points of light we can see in a clear country night.

 

[roger1440]

We first have to ask ourselves, what is the purpose of the Bible? Can it accomplish its purpose? If we had a cook book with misspelled words, yet when the recipes are followed correctly give the desired results, would the misspelled words rob the cook book of its integrity? I don’t think so. The purpose of the Bible is to lead people to God, to make them holy because God is holy. It contains history but it’s not a history book. It contains geography but it’s not a geography book. “God breathed” means the spirit of God or Holy Spirit. There are a few other similar terms the Bible uses but I can’t think of them at the moment.

 

[Bunyip]

Even if this is merely a circle, it still accurately describes it with a circumference and when you look at the way the galaxies are strung together, it really does look like a "fine gauze". Something that would not be readily apparent from the 3000 or so points of light we can see in a clear country night.

No, circles are two dimensional, spheres are three. To describe the earth as a circle is wrong.

 

[Bunyip]

Do you have an example of verses from the bible where it mention a circle rather than a sphere?

Sure, Isaiah 40:22. The word for ball is never used in that context, although it does appear elsewhere in the bible (Isaiah 22:18).
Dur can refer to either circles or spheres, but chug refers specifically to a circle.